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Justinontheinternet t1_ixbor50 wrote

Damn we’re 3rd in the nation in toughest gun control laws. How could this be if our gun control are so strong? It’s like these psychos totally disregard the laws. I wish there was a law we could pass that could erase evil intent. Maybe then these tragedies will stop. Even the CO shooting a year and a half ago the guy had made a home made bomb, threatened to blow up him mom. The authorities had to actually evacuate the entire block because of the situation. Yet he was still legally able to buy a gun. Why the hell was he on the street to begin with especially after a legitimate bomb threat?

https://apnews.com/article/gun-violence-shootings-colorado-politics-springs-ee6fe797a50cfca1bccfcc051c588187

Taking away guns from law abiding and limiting magazines isn’t going to fix the evil intent in people.

What will stop these shootings is destigmatized and easy access to affordable mental health care. And an overwhelming and visceral tactical response, much like the veteran who actually stopped the Colorado shooting. The vet grabbed the gun and beat the man over his head with it until a lady came over and started stomping the shooter with her heels.

Sources: https://youtu.be/-Pxnu-0FsxU

Vet hero: https://www.reddit.com/r/AbsoluteUnits/comments/z1ec2c/a_badass_absolute_

Gun control creates new victims because it disarms the law abiding who are on average 2-12x more law abiding than police officers.

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Testarossa2013 t1_ixbs10x wrote

Laws aren't to stop crime. They're to allow prosecution for breaking said laws.

It's funny. The same Republicans who claim gun laws don't work also try to outlaw abortion because somehow that works.

And before you even start calling me a libtard or whatever derogatory teem you use these days, I'm a permit holder and gun owner. 😌

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Justinontheinternet t1_ixbw10i wrote

Before you assume I’m republican and against abortion. I’m a independent and pro abortion. 😌

Just like I always tell people you like have more in common with your neighbor than we’re lead to believe. (Like you assuming I’m republican and against abortion just because I mention guns, it’s like the media regurgitated that thought for you)

“Laws aren't to stop crime. They're to allow prosecution for breaking said laws.”

If this is the truth then why are the only solutions being presented and passed are more gun laws? Especially the groups of people advocating for more gun laws and celebrating when they are passed? Especially fresh after each tragedy? Can’t they see by taking guns from the law abiding they are creating more victims?

The fastest growing group of gun owners are women and people are color. Why are people gladly advocating for creating more victims of those who have traditionally been victimized the most?

Usually laws are put in place to deter crime. Aka many “right” minded people don’t break the law out of fear of the repercussions. Not because they are afraid being prosecuted or the trial vs wasting away for years in our criminal justice system.

Meanwhile there are many criminals who break the law and do not give a fuck. It doesn’t bring bad the dead or make the crime “rewind” and not happen.

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Flaky_Alternative_60 t1_ixbxurx wrote

You can tell how liberal this state is when you get downvoted fast for having a legit point... No matter how good your argument is...

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turboda t1_ixc80jr wrote

I feel like that is reddit in general.

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Justinontheinternet t1_ixbzq7s wrote

You can’t blame them, it part of their programming. Sadly most Americans believe what they see on TV or various forms of other media. Their assumption on my post has been on repeat in all forms of mass media since 1985.

Imagine playing word association with these folks.

Let’s do a thought exercise. Mass media projected

Guns-Republican, white, military assault weapons, middle aged balding, male, killers, evil, dangerous, MAGA, Domestic Terrorist, proud boys,oath keepers

This is what see because that’s what they’ve been conditioned to see.

Despite the reality being the below.

Guns- partisan , males females etc , young and old, multiracial, tools, fun, range time, home protection, shooting for sport, shooting to hunt and eat, conservationists, anti victim device.

Now what words do you hear most on mass media out of the two examples?

Basically, so many Americans can’t get past their primal urge to throw people into the “they, them”category. When that has been the premise to every atrocity committed by man. All in their name of a subjectively just cause.

The only way to stop this is to critically think. Which in today’s society if it takes more than 10 seconds or requires any actual effort, will be dismissed. Which is why I don’t expect this to change anytime soon.

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letstalkab0utit t1_ixc8lpf wrote

I tell people all the time to think for themselves- stop putting every person in a category, stop putting them all in the same box.

They don’t get it, it falls on deaf ears.

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[deleted] t1_ixcnpon wrote

Yeah putting everyone into little boxes sucks, but gun owners/enthusiasts are the breed that ruined this country. Fuck all of ‘em.

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Dewage83 t1_ixdz2iu wrote

Thank you for making his point. Lol

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Justinontheinternet t1_ixe1vdu wrote

Exactly I was going to reply But you nailed it. Me: Hey guys we’re not so different, let critically think about this. This dude: you’re right we’re not so different. SO FUCK THOSE GUYS OVER THERE

🤦‍♂️

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Lopsided_Cupcake_988 t1_ixdm8ep wrote

It’s because the same bum that are on Reddit all day are the loud minority that hardly contribute to society

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Triscuitador t1_ixed2f9 wrote

you know we can see your post and comment history, right? you might not be a registered republican but you are a conservative

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AdHistorical7107 t1_ixc9ma4 wrote

Yeah it's not like any politicians out there put up second amendment sanctuaries or anything....

Face it..one party loves guns. Just ask the family members of the children massacred in Uvalde....

But hey, your gun is more valuable right? 🤷‍♂️

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Lopsided_Cupcake_988 t1_ixdmemd wrote

So there’s no guns? Uvalde man just goes in with a machete instead or even explosives/incendiary devices

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AdHistorical7107 t1_ixdmqv6 wrote

Oh and here we go with the whole "If it isnt a gun its something else" nonsense.....

If you don't have the mental capacity to think bigger and think ahead, you're not worth my time. Your mind is way too small.

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Lopsided_Cupcake_988 t1_ixdzab6 wrote

Maybe if you had the mental capacity to realize why people do mass killing. An evil person doesn’t care if guns are legal or not they’ll use anything they can like a car or knifes or even their fists it doesn’t matter. Our 2nd amendment gives us a chance against these people especially for older people who can’t win a physical fight they can rely on a firearm to protect them.

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AdHistorical7107 t1_ixe0snq wrote

Ah but guns are much more efficient. Ask the family of those bristol police officers and of the kids from Uvalde....

Keep justifying the mass murders. It's a great look on you....

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buried_lede t1_ixciknf wrote

The mental health rhetoric from NRA interests is an excuse now, and a prelude to exploitation later.

If there weren’t access to the most lethal guns and ammunition, people’s mental health would be theirs and their family’s concerns and certainly not organized around gun licensing, which it would be if that were policy.

Maybe the misplaced paranoia about gun rights is a form of mental illness. How would the NRA folks like to be pushed back on their heels fielding that accusation?

The medical profession has no obligation to the gun lobby

Private militias are illegal too, but look at all of them. Is that mental illness or politically motivated? Who will be categorized as what? I’m suspicious of every argument from the gun lobby since the NRA was radicalized, years ago

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_343_Guilty_Spark__ t1_ixcw9ju wrote

You need to look no further than the usual 2A supporters on this sub.

Take u/theokayestname for example. Always, ALWAYS going on and on about gun laws. It’s 99% of their profile, and the people they interact with on gun subs are exactly the same. You even dare to mention the fact that mental issues or the borderline fetishization culture surrounding guns is part of the problem and what do you get? Insults and a block.

There’s NO pleasing 2A nuts, especially with today’s political climate. The problem will never be fixed until they can swallow their own pride and admit something needs to be done

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Likeapuma24 t1_ixhf7nn wrote

The problem is that they're not prosecuting firearm crimes. Guy just got sentenced yesterday after attempting to rob a guy & pointing a gun at his head... 8 years. Can't figure out what "positive attributes" this guy could possibly have.

https://www.journalinquirer.com/crime_and_courts/man-who-pulled-gun-during-garage-burglary-gets-8-years/article_9b511ac4-69b3-11ed-85d3-63d76c3192ee.html?utm_campaign=blox&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR0E2yAayGFQWfNs0L9WAGTDWTDMzDYgKJ7lN7CNR3-T6kEbnzexn1gIZh8

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AdHistorical7107 t1_ixc7isi wrote

You do know just about every illegal gun comes from a legal gun, right? More than likely that illegal gun was stolen from a "responsible" gun owner....

I'll agree with increased mental health access...

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buried_lede t1_ixchwea wrote

Worked in Australia.

The amount of mental health resources it would take to counter “It’s 1776” etc rhetoric coming from an entire political party is a totally uphill battle.

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darkoblivion21 t1_ixcqo1a wrote

There's plenty of examples of gun restrictions working when implemented at a national level but they never want to acknowledge that. They just point to x state with strict laws and say it's not working ignoring the fact that the guns are coming from other states with lax laws.

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buried_lede t1_ixcuz0z wrote

And the time it would take because of sheer numbers - there are more guns than people here now - and how motivated they are to the extreme, which fosters homemade guns, ghost guns, 3D printed guns, criminal activity.

But ultimately, it works. Under Bloomberg, NY’s biggest gun problem were WVa’s lax gun laws and I-95

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B00ZE_TAN t1_ixcazeq wrote

Oh the old “good guys with guns” argument? Look at the facts, most of the time good guys with guns don’t stop mass shootings, ask the Uvalde police

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thekingofsecrets t1_ixcplvj wrote

I would say that argument doesn't really apply to police. In general the police will arrive too late to do anything about it. The good guy with a gun argument applies to someone who is concealed carrying and is able to respond with force to stop the situation. There have been multiple accounts just this year where a CCL holder stopped a shooting since they were on site and able to surprise the shooter.

Two notable accounts from this summer alone.

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/17/1111973024/3-people-fatally-shot-indiana-mall

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wowktv.com/news/local/charleston-police-shooting-victim-pulled-assault-rifle-on-party/amp/

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B00ZE_TAN t1_ixcuwqp wrote

Thank you, I didn’t say it doesn’t happen, but twice out of over 600 mass shootings this year. You are looking at less than 1% of the time a “good guy” stops them.

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ZebraRaptor t1_ixe6zb9 wrote

That’s because they are stopped before they can become mass shootings…

Anywhere between 500k-3 million times a year guns are used in self defense. That’s a hell of a lot less victims.

Source: https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/firearms/defensive-gun-uses-in-the-us/

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B00ZE_TAN t1_ixe86zz wrote

Haha, I love the number 500k-3 mili? You might as well say we have no idea how many!

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ZebraRaptor t1_ixe8mg1 wrote

Found the guy who didn’t even click on the article. One, it spans over several years, not every year had the same amount, and two, many cases go unreported. They only show cases that were verifiable through media or police reports.

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B00ZE_TAN t1_ixea267 wrote

You’re right ,at the time I didn’t have to read it, I just think the huge difference between the two numbers is funny, because it is. The site you’ve given says they really have no idea, due to unreported incidents. Why wouldn’t you report a self defense shooting if you are a 100 percent legal?

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ZebraRaptor t1_ixexe5v wrote

I see where you’re coming from, but using a fire arm in self defense is not always involving the firearm being discharged. Most of the time just as soon as the defender brandishes the firearm it’s enough to scare off the predator/robber/assaulter/road rager etc.

So that’s where we struggle with the numbers. They were over several years able to pull data that could be backed up by media and police, but if the guy ran off, sometimes someone may not report it. Also pretty sure the self defense claims can be of livestock so if a mountain lion was threatening you or your livestock it’s also part of self defense using a firearm.

Never hurts to click an article, they often provide the context necessary to make judgement.

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thekingofsecrets t1_ixfe35a wrote

I would say you're referring to situations where there is no good guy with a gun. I've yet to read about a situation where a mass shooting devolves into a gun fight. There's either it ends immediately due to a CCL holder, or it goes on for 30 minutes until the cops show up. My take away from that is that it's a benefit to yourself and your personal safety if you seek out a CCL and training.

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Strat7855 t1_ixcsfmc wrote

Setting aside the obvious issues, how exactly is one multiplicatively more law abiding than someone else?

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