AmeriToast t1_jdkx2xd wrote on March 25, 2023 at 3:29 AM

Reply to comment by r2k-in-the-vortex in An ESA advisory committee has recommended Europe should independently develop its own space station when the ISS retires, and develop its own lunar base independently of NASA's Artemis plans. by lughnasadh

Any kind of EU backed space stations would end up government hell with many countries not seeing this as a benefit to their country and not supporting it and others fighting over who gets to build which part. Good luck getting this sorted out anytime soon.

r2k-in-the-vortex t1_jdla9dh wrote on March 25, 2023 at 5:48 AM

ESA is supporting its share in ISS just fine. Financing common projects over EU is in general a solved problem, that's really not a roadblocker.

But with rise of spacex Ariane model is over and done with, not that it was ever man rated anyway. You can't build a manned spaceflight program entirely of your own, if you don't have a suitable launcher.

At this point, ISS successor, in cooperation with US and others (minus Russia) is sensible. But an entirely EU station simply isn't viable.

Kaz_55 t1_jdlqtvi wrote on March 25, 2023 at 9:47 AM

>But with rise of spacex Ariane model is over and done with, not that it was ever man rated anyway.

It is, actually

>Ariane 5 was originally intended to launch the Hermes spacecraft, and thus it is rated for human space launches.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5

Not that I would expect a SpaceX fan to know that.

I'd also like to remind you that SpaceX was pretty vocal about those Mars colonies and how they would be funded via their satellite internet, none of which has worked out so far, let alone it being profitable. "Reuse" is nice to have, but it is not mandatory.

r2k-in-the-vortex t1_jdlrzy8 wrote on March 25, 2023 at 10:04 AM

Falcon did 61 launches last year. No matter what you are fan of, you got to respect that tonnage and revenue. Starship is going to go a giant leap beyond that within few years. The only limit is finding enough payloads.

Yes, reuse is absolutely mandatory if you plan to play on the level field with that. Reuse, or learn to build new orbital rocket each week in perpetuity on the cheap, good luck with that.

Kaz_55 t1_jdlu0b6 wrote on March 25, 2023 at 10:32 AM

>Yes, reuse is absolutely mandatory if you plan to play on the level field with that. Reuse, or learn to build new orbital rocket each week in perpetuity on the cheap, good luck with that.

No it's not. Reuse itself puts a tight limit on your launch capacity, and SpaceX regularely expends boosters. Reuse is entirely optional, and speculating about a "a level playing field" without even knowing how reusability impacts SpaceX financially is pretty misleading.