Submitted by idapitbwidiuatabip t3_y88rue in Futurology
TunturiTiger t1_iszdaj7 wrote
Reply to comment by idapitbwidiuatabip in Ikea is trialing driverless truck deliveries in Texas. by idapitbwidiuatabip
No we don't. We need a world where machines don't make people obsolete in their own societies just so big businesses and profiteers can accumulate even more wealth. Some pathetic UBI is no alternative to having a job and actually making your own living. It's only a way to make a permanent slave class that relies on government handouts to survive, while the upper echelons of society live in even higher abundance and afford to buy more assets to make even more profit. It's those guys who will buy the homes which they will rent to the slave class, instead of you. It's them who will own property, and not you. It's them who will lobby the politicians and build the world to their liking, not you. You are nothing else but a worthless liability that is kept content and politically passive by handing out bread and circuses (and probably antidepressants as well).
UBI will just mean another costly wealth transfer scheme from public funds to the consumer, while the corporations and banks can cut their losses even further by not having to pay wages. From public funds to the consumer, so he can pay the rent of his tiny apartment, sending the money to the elites that own the property.
This is not a good trajectory. This is an outright dystopian trajectory. Governments have to work on even tighter budgets, people have no independence and have to live on handouts, and the ones having all the wealth will continue buying the world bit by bit, manipulating the people and lobbying the government to further their own goals.
[deleted] t1_iszf36u wrote
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TunturiTiger t1_iszo84g wrote
Well, I'm arguing that everything will go to shit and there's not much hope for the future. And trends like these are a prime examples of it. I mean sure, the money lenders, the world of finance, the big mega-corporations, the handful of people who directly serve them will surely be thrilled. And the politicians who will get a nice bonus for their efforts to drive their cause.
The real problem here is the inevitable technological progress and accumulation of knowledge, that will never stop. It's a Pandora's box that already has posed immense potential dangers to humanity. People becoming obsolete is just one of them. I for one don't want people obsolete, stupid, dependent and manipulated beings stuck on a prison planet controlled by a skewed debt driven economic system and the sick machinery it developed out of itself.
[deleted] t1_isztwv3 wrote
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idapitbwidiuatabip OP t1_iszpkcw wrote
> No we don't. We need a world where machines don't make people obsolete in their own societies
At least 100 years too late for that.
> Some pathetic UBI is no alternative to having a job and actually making your own living.
A UBI that meets basic survival needs actually empowers people to find or create jobs that are meaningful, and thrive while doing so.
> It's only a way to make a permanent slave class that relies on government handouts to survive, while the upper echelons of society live in even higher abundance and afford to buy more assets to make even more profit
What you're describing is what we have now. Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck. They are wage slaves and members of the precariat. Meanwhile, the rich continue to grow richer.
Just look at the past 30 years of data. The bottom 50% have been working hard to survive, but that's all they've managed to do.
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57598
> It's those guys who will buy the homes which they will rent to the slave class, instead of you.
They already own the homes and they're currently renting to wage slaves. Are you unaware of the reality in which we live?
> UBI will just mean another costly wealth transfer scheme from public funds to the consumer, while the corporations and banks can cut their losses even further by not having to pay wages.
Please explain to me how companies could attract, much less retain workers - if they offer insufficient wages and can no longer leverage survival because everyone has UBI.
Already, companies are failing to attract & retain workers due to insufficient wages, and people don't even have the UBI to cover their survival.
If everyone had the means to survive without selling their time and labor, that takes the coercion out of all employer/employee relations because it makes work a choice.
Companies that don't pay high enough wages will not be able to attract or retain employees in a world where everyone receives UBI.
> This is not a good trajectory. This is an outright dystopian trajectory.
News flash, we're already on the dystopian trajectory. Eliminating poverty is the only thing that gives us a chance to change course.
> people have no independence and have to live on handouts,
The CTC gave parents more freedom. It didn't make them less independent. It didn't make them more dependent on the government. Giving money to parents gave them more independence because it gave them a little bit more economic power and choice.
> and the ones having all the wealth will continue buying the world bit by bit, manipulating the people and lobbying the government to further their own goals.
UBI changes it so everyone has wealth. If you understand that one of our main problems is the concentration of wealth, I'm not sure why you're opposing the most efficient method of redistributing wealth to all.
charlesfire t1_iszkwq3 wrote
I prefer to live in a world where work is optional, but few people own almost everything than a world were working isn't optional, but few people own almost everything.
TunturiTiger t1_iszm9yc wrote
The difference here is that gap will only widen further. The few will own even more, and the rest will own even less. It's a trend from bad to worse. Being obsolete and leeching off of someone else is not a nice feeling.
idapitbwidiuatabip OP t1_iszprao wrote
People using their UBI aren't 'leeching off' of anyone.
Because everyone gets UBI.
The parents who received the CTC would disagree with you wholeheartedly. It was a nice feeling being able to feed and clothe their kids with a bit more security.
plummbob t1_iszf57c wrote
>We need a world where machines don't make people obsolete in their own societies
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people will always retain comparative advantage against machines. we've had 100 years of automation, and unemployment is pretty low.
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