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FuturologyBot t1_ixfyyg1 wrote
The following submission statement was provided by /u/redingerforcongress:
> Foothill Transit will be first to operate hydrogen fuel-cell buses in the county, starting with three buses, then growing to 33 next year.
> The first hydrogen-powered public bus in Los Angeles County will go into service early next month, a historic milestone that will unleash an army of similar, zero-emission buses that don’t connect to the power grid and run longer without refueling.
> These will replace some older battery electric plug-in buses that are also zero-emission. But some will replace buses that run on Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), a fuel much cleaner than diesel but one that still produces greenhouse gases (GHGs) that contribute to climate change.
> One hydrogen bus will eliminate the 3,655 grams of carbon dioxide emitted per mile by a CNG bus, said Roland Cordero, director of maintenance and diesel technology for Foothill Transit.
> Each bus costs about $1.2 million, Cordero said. That’s slightly more than a battery-electric bus at $950,000, he added.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/z2dkpu/first_hydrogen_powered_transit_bus_in_la_county/ixfutwd/
[deleted] t1_ixg7ypk wrote
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[deleted] t1_ixgblhy wrote
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[deleted] t1_ixgcy2v wrote
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Quirky_Side9966 t1_ixl3nk5 wrote
How will hydrogen be produced? I thought it needed a lot of power for electrólisis, and additionally that the low temperatures and high pressures were challenges
SweetBiscuit t1_ixlafck wrote
It's going to be produced in large quantities in the Australian desert using wind and solar. Close to ports so it can be shipped out in the form of ammonia, but too far from the eastern population centres to "just use the electricity for the grid!".
We currently have so much excess green energy in these areas that it's being used to mine cryptocurrencies, the plan is to use this excess for something less wasteful like electrolysis.
Storage and transport issues were figured out a long time ago, we've already shipped to Japan in hydrogen form, as ammonia it'll be even easier
bitfriend6 t1_ixg4o3v wrote
FWIW the buses are manufactured by Mantobia-based New Flyer. If LA Metro can prove this can work for transit, it will only be natural to mandate it for commercial trucks too.
epocson t1_ixg7u5a wrote
Mandating hydrogen powered anything is difficult right now. The infrastructure for transit and storage of hydrogen for fuel isn’t there yet. Definitely where the industry is going through. Engine manufacturers are buying up hydrogen fuel companies like hot cakes.
navigationallyaided t1_ixif9l1 wrote
I think FCEVs are only viable for buses and aviation. Toyota and Hyundai put a gamble on FCEV cars - but that is so far a flop without the backing of Big Oil. Toyota’s reasoning was to protect the Japanese auto industry from Korea(Hyundai-Kia) and China(BYD and Geely) and they laughed off Tesla. It’s too difficult to have infrastructure for retail gaseous fuels - only Australia, Japan and Hong Kong have that down with LPG(autogas) and CNG. CNG/LNG/LPG tanks in cars, trucks and buses are condemned after 10 years of service - typically a compressed gas tank(like a scuba/fire/CO2 tank) needs to be hydrostatically tested and certified every 5 years.
The problem with burning hydrogen - the NOx emissions are higher than burning fossil fuels. In a gasoline or diesel engine, that can be mitigated with exhaust gas recirculation and selective catalytic reduction(used with EGR on diesel engines, Mercedes/Daimler Truck & Bus calls it Bluetec) but CO/PM/HC emissions are much lower.
navigationallyaided t1_ixgja5c wrote
AC Transit in Oakland, CA has a fleet of FCEV buses, the first series has been retired but they have a second generation using fuel cells from United Technologies on VanHool chassis, and a new “third” generation bus built by New Flyer with Ballard fuel cells and Siemens electric drives. They are collecting data and finding out the reliability of these buses is nearing diesel and actually better than their fleet of hybrid buses using BAE Systems propulsion with a Cummins 7-liter class engine(think Dodge Ram).
I think Toyota is testing out with the Port of LA/Long Beach FCEV trucks. Believe they are Peterbilt gliders with Toyota FC stacks from a Mirai.
redingerforcongress OP t1_ixfutwd wrote
> Foothill Transit will be first to operate hydrogen fuel-cell buses in the county, starting with three buses, then growing to 33 next year.
> The first hydrogen-powered public bus in Los Angeles County will go into service early next month, a historic milestone that will unleash an army of similar, zero-emission buses that don’t connect to the power grid and run longer without refueling.
> These will replace some older battery electric plug-in buses that are also zero-emission. But some will replace buses that run on Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), a fuel much cleaner than diesel but one that still produces greenhouse gases (GHGs) that contribute to climate change.
> One hydrogen bus will eliminate the 3,655 grams of carbon dioxide emitted per mile by a CNG bus, said Roland Cordero, director of maintenance and diesel technology for Foothill Transit.
> Each bus costs about $1.2 million, Cordero said. That’s slightly more than a battery-electric bus at $950,000, he added.