Comments
FuturologyBot t1_ixhy2wb wrote
The following submission statement was provided by /u/lunchboxultimate01:
LyGenesis will soon begin a clinical trial for patients with end-stage liver disease who are not able to receive a transplant. The intervention is a simple out-patient procedure that injects liver cells into one or more lymph nodes, which serve as bioreactors to grow one or more new, functional mini-organs. The procedure has worked in mice, dogs, and pigs. LyGenesis uses cells from discarded organs not used for transplant, and a single organ can provide cells for potentially dozens of patients. The whole clinical trial is likely to take about two years.
As with traditional organ transplants, patients will need to take immunosuppressants to not reject the donor cells. However, LyGenesis has partnered with iTolerance to find ways to transplant cells and tissue without lifelong need for immunosuppressants.
LyGenesis's pipeline also includes the thymus, pancreas, and kidneys.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/z2s4se/human_trial_to_regrow_minilivers_in_patients_with/ixhtewm/
mrlizardwizard t1_ixi7g14 wrote
That's great news!
MuffinMonkey t1_ixi7muu wrote
Big if true!
Suckmydouche t1_ixi9auu wrote
End stage took my mom pretty fast, this is wonderful for others.
CatterMater t1_ixibg4d wrote
This is fascinating! My father had to get a liver transplant because of cryptogenic cirrhosis.
[deleted] t1_ixid5e2 wrote
ihateshadylandlords t1_ixijnuy wrote
Glad to see treatments like this go into clinical trials. It’s one thing to have proof of concept. It’s a completely different ballgame to even make it to the clinical trials stage. Hope everything goes well.
DaFugYouSay t1_ixip0bj wrote
Is there a reason they can't take cells from the patient's own liver when it isn't diseased, but say, damaged from scarring or heavy drinking instead?
[deleted] t1_ixj0sy9 wrote
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GloopCompost t1_ixj7bpn wrote
Dude stop trying to repair things that can fix themselves and start trying to repair teeth enamel.
Man_with_the_Fedora t1_ixjar6m wrote
End stage liver damage is irreversible.
Elegant_Fun5295 t1_ixjgf7p wrote
This needs to happen for kidneys already. So many patients on dialysis after diabetes
Justin87793 t1_ixjhfcv wrote
They should just grow normal size livers, those would probably work better.
ForProfitSurgeon t1_ixjwud9 wrote
This is great news.
Alittlespill t1_ixk3jdi wrote
I love seeing Greys Anatomy episodes play out in real life science news.
jujumber t1_ixk57tf wrote
Large if correct!
jl_theprofessor t1_ixk5wkp wrote
If it's damaged from scarring and heavy drinking, then it's diseased.
Significant_Bit550 t1_ixk7l1f wrote
Will this be one of those things that costs so much in America that it will bankrupt your family for a generation?
i_give_you_gum t1_ixk90lr wrote
What doesn't in the US?
[deleted] t1_ixkcpzz wrote
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Li54 t1_ixkfs6g wrote
Enormous if factual!
[deleted] t1_ixkg9gj wrote
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-newlife t1_ixkh26v wrote
Most recent thing I can find on tooth enamel
https://www.science.org/content/article/new-artificial-enamel-harder-and-more-durable-real-thing
Google also shows years of studies on the attempt to repair/regrow it. So it appears that we can try to study multiple issues
A_Shadow t1_ixkhj8i wrote
More difficult to induce the pluripotent stem cells to turn into mini livers. Probably something in the future if this pans out.
droneb t1_ixkladn wrote
You mean the investigation of liquified páncreas cells and reimplantation?
cl3ft t1_ixkm12h wrote
My dying pancreas is going to have to hold out for 15 years+ well at least there's hope.
towngrizzlytown t1_ixkuwf0 wrote
I don't see why it would. If this becomes an FDA-approved therapy, people would be able to get them as they currently do organ transplants. Additionally, this procedure is much simpler than an organ transplant.
HoneyBloat t1_ixl059u wrote
For some definitely….for many who inflict damage to themselves, not really.
[deleted] t1_ixl87yy wrote
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rocketeer8015 t1_ixlgrrn wrote
Following that logic insulin should be affordable…
hyletic t1_ixm6dj6 wrote
Substantial if substantiable!
dkran t1_ixmgl5z wrote
This reminds me of Rand Ridley from Inside Job.
towngrizzlytown t1_ixmpky9 wrote
Insulin pricing in the US certainly needs important improvements. It's hard for a diabetic who is underinsured (with a high-deductible health plan) or doesn't qualify for Medicaid or Medicare. Fortunately most diabetics in the US have adequate coverage to keep out-of-pocket costs on insulin low, although that's hardly consolation for the minority who don't. In any case, the average diabetic can afford and use insulin.
Likewise, if this procedure becomes approved, the average person in the U.S. will be able to benefit from it like people benefit from organ transplants.
rocketeer8015 t1_ixpqtre wrote
I’m just saying that when a company has a captive audience(if you want a new organ you usually really want a new organ) they tend to squeeze them for what they are worth.
Also I find your explanation on insulin prices a bit ironic. It’s still really expensive, just because it’s covered by insurance doesn’t change that. It just means that the costs are spread over a lot of people. Your insurance premium is higher because other people need insulin. The ironic part is that that is exactly the argument used by people that are against universal healthcare, they have to pay for others.
You essentially have the worst of both worlds, you are paying for others and your medicine and treatments are overpriced.
towngrizzlytown t1_ixqplzq wrote
The initial comment I replied to posited that families should expect to be bankrupted by this. However, this procedure, if it's successful and approved, will be covered by insurers, Medicaid, and Medicare, meaning that people will be able to get the procedure like organ transplants and other life-saving procedures like gall-bladder removal, heart valve surgeries, tumor removal, etc.
Depending on a person's particular plan and individual circumstances, the cost sharing, say, a $3,000 deductible could be difficult. But that's a far cry from the burlesque of the original comment, claiming that families will somehow be forced to pay six figures (?) out of pocket to get this procedure.
Although I don't think it matters to the discussion what my personal beliefs are, I support universal healthcare.
lunchboxultimate01 OP t1_ixvcmkj wrote
> it will bankrupt your family for a generation?
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Why do you think this procedure wouldn't be covered by insurance, Medicaid, and Medicare?
lunchboxultimate01 OP t1_ixvgsbc wrote
I think your comment is an example of a somewhat common motte-and-bailey fallacy on Reddit. People will often assert that a potential medical advancement will only be accessible to the super-rich in the U.S. When provided a reason the therapy would be broadly deployed, they may respond that the sticker price of insulin is much higher than in other countries, which makes purchasing it financially difficult for an important portion of diabetics.
The initial argument ("this will only be affordable to the super-rich" - the bailey) is later obfuscated by an accurate yet different fact ("insulin pricing in the U.S. causes difficulties for an important number of diabetics" - the motte).
The U.S. healthcare system certainly has crucial problems to fix or ameliorate. I don't think the hyper cynicism of the original commenter is productive, and insulin (although an especially important topic) is a very different example from the initial argument, which is a motte-and-bailey fallacy.
rocketeer8015 t1_ixyjvtf wrote
Hmm, that’s a very well thought out response. Do you have a counter example of a medication or procedure that’s as important(life saving) as insulin yet cheap and affordable in the US?
You make it sound as if insulin is a outlier, but I can immediately think of another example with an even wider scope: childbirth in a hospital. Same theme, captive audience(if your pregnant you are going to give birth in the best case), same result, high costs.
lunchboxultimate01 OP t1_ixzdu75 wrote
I think you've missed my point. Healthcare pricing in the U.S. is certainly out of whack due to a fractured, bureaucratic system, which makes coverage through insurance, Medicaid, and Medicare important for patients.
My intention was to show the motte-and-bailey fallacy, which was the following:
A1: This medical advancement will just bankrupt families for generations.
B: I don't see why. People will be able to get it like they do organ transplants (or any other medical procedure because it will be covered by insurance, Medicaid, and Medicare).
A2: Well insulin is overpriced...
A1 and A2 are not the same argument. The fact that A2 is correct does not make A1 correct. Additionally, B has not been disproven.
lunchboxultimate01 OP t1_ixhtewm wrote
LyGenesis will soon begin a clinical trial for patients with end-stage liver disease who are not able to receive a transplant. The intervention is a simple out-patient procedure that injects liver cells into one or more lymph nodes, which serve as bioreactors to grow one or more new, functional mini-organs. The procedure has worked in mice, dogs, and pigs. LyGenesis uses cells from discarded organs not used for transplant, and a single organ can provide cells for potentially dozens of patients. The whole clinical trial is likely to take about two years.
As with traditional organ transplants, patients will need to take immunosuppressants to not reject the donor cells. However, LyGenesis has partnered with iTolerance to find ways to transplant cells and tissue without lifelong need for immunosuppressants.
LyGenesis's pipeline also includes the thymus, pancreas, and kidneys.