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T-Rex_timeout t1_j1su1yn wrote

This is what I’ve been saying for 7 years. You should able to switch them out like propane tanks.

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LittleKittyLove t1_j1syuab wrote

It’s a nice idea, and works with bikes. Less practical for cars.

The battery is the heaviest part in the car, it is massive in size, and it carries more than enough power to turn you into an exploding lightbulb. It is a big deal to swap it out.

Additionally, batteries last long enough that the design of cars is changing to build the battery into the frame, as part of the car. It’s analogous to either trying to fit a fuel tank into the wing of a plane, or simply making the entire wing a fuel tank.

It’s a big win from a design perspective, helping push towards 600+ mile ranges, but the battery cannot be swapped out, only recycled at the end of the car’s life.

For cars, battery swapping is not necessary. The expectation is to wake up at full battery every day, with more than enough for daily commuting and living. For big drives, the car automatically plans charging stops, and supercharging only adds about 10-20% travel time if you’re going 500+ miles in a single day.

Any concerns about EV charging are completely fixed by adding charging stations at home or at work, which is exactly as difficult as adding adding a standard washer/dryer outlet.

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lepus_fatalis t1_j1t3q6o wrote

a very privileged point of view imo.

Comparing a short charge time of like 5 minutes for a gas pump which immediately gives you full mileage with a 20min (in selected locations) partial charge on an already shorter range is imo, disingenuous at best or ignorant at worst.

Battery swapping could be possible if it werent for some tech resilient people that are already conservative on a tech that is barely a few years out in public - "uh but the design does not allow," "this is how it s made" etc.

fact is, it is very much possible as thse people have proven on bikes which of course could have also benefited from the trivial design takes you mentioned, but chose not to and actually select bike designs where battery swap is possible.

sheesh

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Surur t1_j1tty2l wrote

> Battery swapping could be possible

Battery swapping for cars is real in China, with Nio, so there is a real competition amongst the technologies, but I think regular built-in batteries are winning even there.

Their cars can of course also be charged in the usual way.

Nio is also expanding to Europe.

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LittleKittyLove t1_j1t7f8j wrote

I’m sorry if I’ve rubbed you the wrong way! I’m not trying to put anyone down, just explain the situation, and why things are the way they are, along with where they will be going.

It is currently a privileged point of view to talk about EVs like I am. Most people cannot afford an EV with a large range, or the ability to supercharge. Most people have trouble charging at home or at work. I’d guess driving an EV will be a privilege for another 3-10 years.

But what is a privileged experience for me today is going to be average pretty quick here. The tech is improving, and all major manufacturers are leaning almost exclusively towards EV now. Give it 5 or 10 years, and 300+ miles + supercharging + charging at home will be uninteresting. If we can manage to build, maintain, and refuel gas stations across the world, we can add some power outlets in parking lots.

Sooo the summary of my many paragraphs: battery swaps on cars probably won’t be a thing, since they aren’t necessary in real life experience, and they hurt design/range. We will see more charging pop up around residential and commercial, and most EVs will have the ability to supercharge. That is the end of all charging problems. Charge them with gasoline if you need to—gas in a large generator is more efficient than gas in an internal combustion engine.

Charging anxiety is mostly a thing for people who haven’t driven EV. When you have one, you see it’s already not a problem.

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Vitztlampaehecatl t1_j1t5i89 wrote

Cope. Electric bikes > electric cars for short trips, and trains > electric cars for long trips. This goes double for countries that haven't already sunk billions into car infrastructure and would need to build that out from scratch.

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Shillbot_9001 t1_j1xn94d wrote

>nd trains > electric cars for long trips

Laughs in rural

Cries in rural

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KmartQuality t1_j1w4tex wrote

I think it only works economically if the battery packs are rented by the day. Propane tanks are empty vessels when the energy is used up. Battery packs are still just as valuable while they sit around doing nothing.

If you are a single user and ride your bike all the time then this is a once/day expense, just like adding petrol, and very cost effecient. But if you are a more casual user I think this would not be cost effective. You would have to pay for the battery every day it is not returned.

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T-Rex_timeout t1_j1w6rzy wrote

I used propane tanks as an example just because people are familiar with that concept.

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KmartQuality t1_j1wb22h wrote

With the propane tank, to get started you have to buy a tank. After that they're happy to swap out going forward.

Maybe they have a setup where you actually buy a battery but then continue the same way as with propane.

It's very expensive up front though.

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T-Rex_timeout t1_j1wbhnt wrote

Dude I told you it was just an example people are familiar with not the exact business model.

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