[deleted]

Death penalty needs to be abolished

I once got into an argument with someone on this very issue back when I used to frequent r/Catholicism. The argument they made was that the term "pro-life" is a term only used to describe a position on abortion.

The mental gymnastics are crazy.

I don’t know, seems reasonable to me. Everyone deserves a chance at life. In some instances, people who have caused an extremely excessive amount of harm to others doesn’t deserve to continue to live.

I’m not even taking sides, just saying I don’t think those two ideas are necessarily conflicting

You’d have to put your complete trust in the justice system. Not everyone put to death is actually guilty.

The counterargument to that is that there is a nonzero chance of executing an innocent person. At least a person can be compensated for time spent wrongfully imprisoned; no such recourse exists for a person wrongfully executed.

"I'm pro-grapes but only green grapes."

[deleted]

Hi, I'm a pro-life Republican who vehemently opposes capital punishment not only because it takes a life, but primarily because the persons convicted and sentenced to death are far too often later exonerated and the death penalty itself is disproportionately applied to minorities.

>In 2015, the Justice Department and the FBI formally acknowledged that nearly every examiner in an FBI forensic squad overstated forensic hair matches for two decades before the year 2000. Of the 28 forensic examiners testifying to hair matches in a total of 268 trials reviewed, 26 overstated the evidence of forensic hair matches and 95% of the overstatements favored the prosecution. Defendants were sentenced to death in 32 of those 268 cases.
>
>
>
>The executions of Nathaniel Woods, Dustin Higgs, and Troy Davis have been cited by some as possible cases of wrongful executions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution

Remember when Jesus commanded you to turn the other cheek?

Why? Curious to learn both sides.

Go look at how many people have been exonerated after being on death row. Now think about how many actually were put to death because they didn’t get lucky enough to be exonerated. As long as there’s the chance that we are putting innocent people to death, I am against the death penalty.

There’s also the main argument that we shouldn’t be killing people at all no matter what, but I feel my former argument hits home a bit more.

[removed]

If you were wrongfully convicted of raping a child and sitting on death row for it, would you still hold that conviction?

​

Because at least 190 innocent people have been executed in the U.S. since 1973.

https://deathpenalty.procon.org/

That's it? What if someone kills a kid but doesn't sexually assault them?

For rapists? Sure. But being one isn't a crime in an of itself- they can't help how they were born and statements like yours do nothing to get them help.

[removed]

[removed]

The only "pro" for the death penalty is that people who would refuse to use violence against others get to witness the state use violence on people they consider "sub par".

I would argue that death is probably better than "sit in this prison until you die".

What kind of Rockefeller Republican shit is this? :)

If you want a fair judicial system, you can't also want the death penalty.

If someone is spending life in jail, we always have the opportunity to catch a wrongful imprisonment and there's the chance for appeal.

If they're dead, those chances are gone. The death penalty is cutting short their opportunity for due process.

The Venn diagram of pedophiles and child sexual abusers (or child molesters if you want to use that term) is not a circle.

Good. Every time I bring up the fact that we should abolish the death penalty I get mocked for being a bleeding heart liberal. Honestly that isn't the case. I couldn't care less if a mass shooter gets put to death. What I do care about is the wrongly convicted getting murdered by the state. Death is kind of an irreversible process, and I don't know why anyone would trust the justice system THAT much. Plus it's almost always cheaper on the tax payer to pay for someone to spend life behind bars then the cost of putting someone on death row. No seriously, if you haven't already, look up the cost of putting someone on death row vs. life in prison. It's mind boggling.

Woah dude you spoke to Jesus? Did you get a selfie?

Great! This means I can go on that killing spree I've been planning. Just joking!

The death penalty is more often applied when the victims are white. That’s really the racial bias. Black people are not given the death sentence more than whites.

Win-Win;

No one will accidently be murdered by the state and you can fill your corporate prisons!

Because the big business of the incarceration industry got in your pocket?

I get insulted when anyone calls me a liberal. I'm a leftist, thank you, those so-called liberals are practically centrists

Interestingly enough the death penalty is a very effective deterrent in countries like Singapore who have very low crime rates.

I don't think executing an innocent life for convenience versus executing someone who's guilty of a proportionate crime requires that much thought to comprehend

I don't know where you're getting that but that's the first time I've heard it.

Except there is no foolproof way to determine a person's guilt. People are wrongfully convicted every day across the planet. And while we can at least compensate someone who was wrongfully imprisoned, we can't compensate someone who was wrongfully executed.

Unreal how some Catholics agree with the death penalty. You can’t pick a choose parts of Catholic doctrine that you agree and disagree with. Here’s 2267 from the new Catechism: “Consequently, the Church teaches, in the light of the Gospel, that “the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person”,i and she works with determination for its abolition worldwide.”

I agree, but don't act like a fetus and a serial killer are the same thing. That was a really stupid comment.

A friend of mine put it best a few years ago when Pope Francis condemned the death penalty:

God: "Thou shalt not kill."

Believer: "But--"

God: "Did I fucking stutter?"

PA has a pro-life governor? Watch out ladies, he's coming for your rights next.

[removed]

A: The government should not have the power to execute its own citizens.

B: Fear of the death penalty does not deter heinous crimes.

C: The justice system is about justice, the death penalty is inherently based on revenge and emotion, two things that do not belong in a modern judicial system.

What about only applying the death penalty to the most heinous of crimes (mass murderers etc), skip the death row and straight to firing line?

It isn’t though. Singapore has a very strict cultural observance of shame and a strong sense of community.

But I’m guessing you already knew that, what with vast knowledge of the place.

Easy bullshit response to a complicated question. Anyone who disagrees with the death penalty for any reason is now instantly “pro-p3do” in your eyes.

Which is fucking disgusting and the debate tactic of a mentally inferior child.

GTFOH with all that nuance on the subject of crime.

A fetus isn't a life, dumbass.

Yeah, culture is toxic in the US. No sense of shame whatsoever.

There's no way to do that without shredding due process, unfortunately.

Simple question to those who support the death penalty.

How many executions of innocent people becomes an unacceptable amount? Is it acceptable to have 1 innocent person executed? 2? 10?

Ultimately and specifically because of how broken our system of "justice" has become, innocent people will be murdered by the State. Once that happens, there is no moral or legal or acceptable standing to continue.

Televise the execution.

Explain

I straight up don’t believe some people deserve to live. I also don’t trust the government to make that decision. Abolish the death penalty.

Don’t love the state having the ability to execute people. Also don’t love subsidizing some heinous criminal’s life in prison sentence with my taxes. Should probably bring back gladiators and let them fight for their freedom or something.

The death penalty should be expanded to pedophiles.

Death penalty as a deterrent is pointless. It does nothing for the crime rate. But as revenge? Its excellent.

A lot of times I think I am against the death penalty…and then I hear a story about someone hurting kids…then I am for it. I think the real hesitation is that someone wrongfully convicted gets put to death.

Due process- a course of legal proceedings according to rules and principles that have been established in a system of jurisprudence for the enforcement and protection of private rights.

So, to be clear, all suspects and convicts are given the same rights. The court system works off of existent precedent quite a bit. So those rights aren't just established by some written-as-a-whole document (though that exists per state and federal level) but also by what courts have decided in the past.

Yeah well now I guess someone isn’t going to hear about my cats.

Since 1973 at least 190 innocent people have been executed. Those are just the one's who could be proven innocent after the fact. If you decrease due process, you increase the number of people who get executed before we can figure out that they were wrongly convicted.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence

It costs more to keep people on death row.

You are correct, pro life should apply to the death penalty too.

Someone is going to see this as a challenge!

The death penalty is a massive waste of taxpayer funds, and one could argue life in prison is actually a worse sentence. No reason to keep it around

[removed]

it's very much a woman's right. kinda weird to think otherwise.

as for your question: you know the answer but you think you've cracked some sort of code, which is adorable.

I am considering a career as a murderer, so will def check out PA. How is the market for murderers there? Are there any programs to help wif cost to reloc?

But Joe Biden is a communist! /s

Throwback to the literal fucking child executed in the 40s (George Stinney) later proven to be completely false because he was racially discriminated against.

this is great news

i would like to hear about your cats. how are they.

do you really just assume all people enjoy getting abortions or something? like what the hell is in that head of yours.

0 innocent executions is acceptable any more and its a failure

they are brainwashed beyond belief they really do think were addicted to abortions or some shit. its always been the last option. and even planned parenthood encourages you to adoption instead. like we take abortion pretty seriously.

ah yes the pedo panic. everyones a pedo.

What??

You still failed to explain the lack of due process of how if one was sentenced to death for mass murder as the jury would go over the evidence and come to the conclusion of a guilty verdict and how the perpetrator would be given the death penalty and promptly executed how that would not be due process.

You can actually download the 300-page report commissioned by the Wolf administration studying factors related to the death penalty. A diverse team of experts spent three years on it and found 16 categories of reasons to not execute anyone. Besides innocent people being executed, widespread lying by cops, systemic racism, and flawed technology, execution costs many times more money than life imprisonment. We also know that "general deterrent" is a myth. There is no moral, ethical, civil, or financial reason to execute.

There is a link in this article to the report on the death penalty. It took 7 years (not 3), and was published in 2018. https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/state-and-federal-info/state-by-state/pennsylvania

[deleted]

People are falsely convicted all the time. You need to allow for appeals to at least attempt to weed out the false convictions before you get to the punishment phase, especially when that punishment is irreversible as is the case with execution.

What about simply locking them away without parole allowing for an easier conviction and less taxpayer dollars spent for essentially the same outcome?

I'm for the death penalty in very narrow situations such as the person is on camera commiting the homicide, and with a higher standard than reasonable doubt.

Ex. Someone robs a bank and shoots a teller in the face with a shotgun. There's cell phone footage, no alibi, CCTV, and several eye witnesses who provide testimony.

In that case I'd be for it.

But even then there would need to be aggravating circumstances.

However, this is so rare, and this isn't the current standard, so as it stands under the system, a moratorium isn't entirely bad.

[removed]

[removed]

Blood spatter analysis? Are you telling me Dexter was a fake?

Oh I’m against the death penalty for that very reason. I just meant that as a theoretical

In todays age we have deep fake videos and college kids creating amazing visual art that looks real so even that type of evidence becomes sketchy.

I appreciate you speaking up for your view. I think my qualms about death penalty are two fold:

1. The legal costs usually amount more than life in prison so we aren’t saving any effort just killing.
2. The person doesn’t get a chance to rehabilitate or feel remorse for their actions. We don’t know if there’s a hell or afterlife so we are really just cutting their sentence down to nothing

I think of the absolute worst person in the world, Hitler, and he chose the death penalty over being imprisoned. He robbed us of actually holding him accountable. If I want hitler to rot in a cell, there’s no one worse that I would rather just die and we move on from.

Kk. Simplified in such a way my 11 year olds could understand. The rules only work if they're equally applied to all suspects and criminals. Once a single review of evidence becomes enough to kill a person, it becomes enough to kill the appeals process altogether. What with how dead people don't get appeals.

::eyeroll::

> basically the entire field of forensics is a pile of pseudoscientific nonsense

Besides you, who else shares this opinion?

[deleted]

https://theappeal.org/faulty-forensics-explained-fe4d41157452/

America is a death cult. We love death, and all of our public policies are tilted towards creating more of it.
 
We've got levels of infant mortality in the deep south that would embarrass the third world that we can't do anything about, but we can put a gun in every teenager's hands no problem.

“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement." -Gandalf

Remember Cameron Todd Willingham. He was convicted on 3 counts of murder for the deaths of his children in a house fire. Most experts that reviewed the case agreed that it was an accidental fire, not arson, but Gov. Perry was making a run for President and wanted to look "tough on crime". He executed Willingham anyway.

I went to school with, and lived on the same street as, a multiple-murderer. I'm friends with someone who was best friends with one of his victims. He was eligible for the death penalty, but was given life without parole instead. It'll be 35 years this summer, and he still sits in prison. His punishment has been far worse than if he had been executed.

That does open a question though - are you still performing prison labor if you are on death row? If they can't or don't, then there is an interest in the profit lost to those who benefit from the prison-industrial complex

That's the whole rub. What level of emotional response (no matter how justified, true, or widely-shared) could outweigh a very real potential to kill someone who was innocent?

You ever seen a grown man naked?

yeah, love big fat cocks.

Again, not a serial killer in this scenario, someone wrongfully convicted. We have killed dozens of people in the US that we now know for a fact were innocent

Have you ever hung around a gymnasium?

What about jury decision? Cut the govt. out of punishments.

Life in prison is pretty good these days. They have pen pals, get married, have tablets and phone calls. An ex con literally explained to me that prison was a party just with no girls