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Live_wires t1_jar1w2c wrote

I’m gonna go with “Cause they’ll find them” for $1000 Alex

20

chansigrilian t1_jar1zp9 wrote

Informative article, thanks for sharing.

One line gave me pause:

“It will not be easy to interpret the results of the testing for dioxins in soil”

Can someone eli5 why the results will be difficult to interpret?

45

Flimsy-Lie-1471 t1_jar8att wrote

IIRC DEP started doing testing very early on. So I am not sure about the rest of it.

3

random6x7 t1_jar93nf wrote

Replying to chansigrilian (#2,150,940)

Maybe because they won't know for sure if the contamination comes from the derailment. East Palestine was an industrial town back in the day, so there's probably all sorts of nastiness still around.

53

enemy_of_your_enema t1_jarckjv wrote

Replying to IamSauerKraut (#2,151,219)

I also don't really buy the basic thesis of the article, which despite being teased in the headline, was backed up by only three sentences:

"So why is EPA unwilling to test for dioxins in the soil? My guess is
because they know they will find it. And if they find it, they’ll have
to address the many questions people are asking."

It is literally the EPA's job to do this kind of testing and then "respond to questions." They didn't cause the derailment, so why would they be motivated to cover up the impact? I'm not sure why the author thinks that the EPA has no incentive to do its job and they certainly didn't explain why.

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sauerakt t1_jarenl0 wrote

This and the other recent spills are the physical and symbolic spilling of the Earth's (nature's) blood (oil) in preparation for this year's Season of Sacrifice (Spring equinox 3/22 to Walpurgisnacht 5/1) during which children (literal children and the uninitiated masses/public of current day, who are spiritual children) are sacrificed (real blood and life force energy of the innocent and still "pure" souls) during the Molech Ritual to help ensure a fruitful harvest (of souls, their currency) and the success of the dark occult rulers of our planet. (This is their fucked up and immoral beliefs, not mine. I'm just not ignorant to them like most). They are gearing up hard for this year's spring season. Don't be afraid, be educated.

−10

RaceSignificant1794 t1_jarnz98 wrote

Replying to random6x7 (#2,151,078)

They are taking their sweet time to even BEGIN testing.... That article clearly states that the EPA is only in the planning stage to create a "reliable test" to correctly measure the toxin in the soil. The last paragraph says it all:

"EPA is also currently reviewing a draft plan by Norfolk Southern to develop a dioxin “fingerprint” for soil sampling. EPA anticipates that developing a dioxin fingerprint for East Palestine will require use of certified laboratories that can perform high-resolution gas chromatography and mass spectrometry to identify various isomers of dioxins.  If this dioxin fingerprint can be developed with reliable methodologies, it will help EPA determine whether any dioxin particularly from the train derailment and controlled burn impacted the local environment."

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-requires-norfolk-southern-sample-dioxins-east-palestine

It's all too little, too late

−5

RaceSignificant1794 t1_jaro0pz wrote

They are taking their sweet time to even BEGIN testing.... That article below, from March 2, 2023, clearly states that the EPA is only in the planning stage to create a "reliable test" to correctly measure the toxin in the soil. The last paragraph says it all:

"EPA is also currently reviewing a draft plan by Norfolk Southern to develop a dioxin “fingerprint” for soil sampling. EPA anticipates that developing a dioxin fingerprint for East Palestine will require use of certified laboratories that can perform high-resolution gas chromatography and mass spectrometry to identify various isomers of dioxins.  If this dioxin fingerprint can be developed with reliable methodologies, it will help EPA determine whether any dioxin particularly from the train derailment and controlled burn impacted the local environment."

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-requires-norfolk-southern-sample-dioxins-east-palestine

It's all too little, too late

−2

random6x7 t1_jarq87l wrote

Replying to RaceSignificant1794 (#2,152,169)

Making Norfolk Southern do it is not uncommon for regulatory agencies. You tell the project proponent they have to do something, they hire consultants to do the thing, you make sure their work is correct and up to standards. Regulatory agencies would need a much, much higher budget if they did that all in-house, and why not make Norfolk Southern do all the work and pay for it, as long as the EPA makes them do it properly.

The fact that they already have a draft plan in review is fast for the government. Yes, it sucks, but there are so many levels of oversight, plus the consultants near me and probably in Ohio are already hella busy, that it's not a surprise. Should the EPA already know the base background dioxin contamination across the US? Sure, but now we go back to budgeting issues. No one wants to pay for this stuff until the tragedies happen.

6

steelceasar t1_jarvv2x wrote

Replying to sauerakt (#2,152,461)

Let's see. We could start with the fact that you seem to think the "season of sacrifice" and Molech rituals are actual things. Would you by chance be spending time perusing Q anon forums?

4

sauerakt t1_jarxil6 wrote

Replying to steelceasar (#2,152,522)

Yes those things are very real and well documented. I have contacts with former members and witnesses and victims of such events in the dark occult circles. No I do not peruse Q Anon forums. Q Anon is fake and is nothing more than controlled opposition by the world powers and a psy-op to keep people from manifesting change themselves. I know that a state of freedom, happiness, and growth can only be reached when everyone lives only in non-violence and in voluntary consentual actions. To get there we must understand ourselves and the current state of the world that we live in, which is a condition of slavery. What I detailed in my comment above is the truth whether anyone else believes it or not.

−1

hahahoudini OP t1_jary55u wrote

Replying to chansigrilian (#2,150,940)

From another article:

Further context reveals that the EPA previously claimed they wouldn't test for dioxins because they hadn't tested for baseline levels in East Palestine prior to the crash, making the cause of current levels uncertain; a rationale that at least one scientist refers to as "lame."

"Our toxicologists are taking a look. Unfortunately, we don’t have any baseline information about the levels of dioxins which are produced also by wildfires, by backyard grilling, by a host of other things,” Shore said. Lester says he has no knowledge of backyard grilling producing a dangerous amount of dioxin. “I’ve never heard anybody, any researcher talk about cookouts. Because that’s an infinitesimal concentration, if at all. Because dioxins form not just cause there’s burning, you need a chlorine source,” Lester said.

Lester says even if there is no baseline from prior testing to compare levels, the EPA should still be able to do testing to determine if the level that’s there is a risk."

Source

This whole incident casts a lot doubt on the integrity of the EPA.

24

hahahoudini OP t1_jaryc32 wrote

Replying to random6x7 (#2,151,078)

From another article:

Further context reveals that the EPA previously claimed they wouldn't test for dioxins because they hadn't tested for baseline levels in East Palestine prior to the crash, making the cause of current levels uncertain; a rationale that at least one scientist refers to as "lame."

"Our toxicologists are taking a look. Unfortunately, we don’t have any baseline information about the levels of dioxins which are produced also by wildfires, by backyard grilling, by a host of other things,” Shore said. Lester says he has no knowledge of backyard grilling producing a dangerous amount of dioxin. “I’ve never heard anybody, any researcher talk about cookouts. Because that’s an infinitesimal concentration, if at all. Because dioxins form not just cause there’s burning, you need a chlorine source,” Lester said.

Lester says even if there is no baseline from prior testing to compare levels, the EPA should still be able to do testing to determine if the level that’s there is a risk."

Source

This whole incident casts a lot doubt on the integrity of the EPA.

−2

steelceasar t1_jaryigd wrote

Replying to sauerakt (#2,152,596)

>very real and well documented. I have contacts with former members and witnesses and victims of such events in the dark occult circles

Oh I see, I guess we should just take your word as evidence?

2

Anonymous_Otters t1_jas0iin wrote

Replying to Live_wires (#2,152,724)

The EPA literal purpose is to find evidence of environmental damage. They are trying to force the company to pay for and perform the testing, but the EPA is also doing testing now. It has nothing to do with conspiracy nonsense of them purposefully not wanting to find contamination.

3

steelceasar t1_jas1tny wrote

Replying to sauerakt (#2,152,688)

Really? How can you unironically say think for yourself and then post links to tabloid bloggers? Read an actual book. You want to learn about the historical context of Baal and Molech, I would recommend Carthage Must be Destroyed by Richard Meyers. He contextualizes Phoenician and Greek mythology with the rise of the Roman Republic. And the best part? He offers citations from archeology and other primary sources, as well as engaging with the existing academic writing on the topic. It's also a well written and approachable narrative.

2

KentSmashtacos t1_jas2ion wrote

Replying to random6x7 (#2,152,275)

Several points.. Why couldn't the EPA simply require payment for the necessary supplies and costs to perform said tests in-house by charging NS the bill. Seems obvious.

The background dioxin contamination would likely be recorded in surrounding areas by referencing commercial farms that perform regular soil tests.

0

random6x7 t1_jas7w0z wrote

Replying to KentSmashtacos (#2,152,836)

They're probably just not set up for it. It takes time to do the necessary surveys and testing and report preparation. It takes less time, but still a lot of it, to write contracts, send them out for bid, and choose a consultant to do the work. The government at all levels is already understaffed thanks to years of hiring freezes and budget cuts, and I can guarantee the Trump years did a number on people's willingness to join the EPA.

Plus, what do they do when Norfolk Southern stalls on paying the bill? Add higher interest rates? I mean, sure, but levying huge fines while they get dragged through the court of public opinion would be worse than just a bill they refuse to pay while everyone else forgets about the incident.

3

random6x7 t1_jas8tmb wrote

Replying to hahahoudini (#2,152,651)

It's not as nefarious as you think it is. There are absolutely bad actors, and some agencies and/or field offices within agencies just suck. But no one gets into environmental review to strike it rich or destroy the environment, except -maybe- the political appointees.

This also isn't the EPA telling Norfolk Southern to do whatever they want. This is more likely them saying "you -will- clean up your mess and do it right". If you doubt that, well, a lot of the regs have transparency and public outreach built in so the interested public can keep an eye on things. Alas, though, the interested public often doesn't care until it directly affects them.

2

random6x7 t1_jasiaib wrote

Replying to hahahoudini (#2,153,380)

Like I said, there are absolutely bad actors. Those orders came from the political appointees, too. I'm just saying, the way things are set up now isn't a conspiracy. It has problems, but it was set up mostly in good faith by people doing the best they could with what they had and knew.

1

BluCurry8 t1_jaso02i wrote

Replying to RaceSignificant1794 (#2,152,169)

Why is it too late? They are trying to get to the facts. This town was an industrial town like so many others and it is likely that the soli was already contaminated. What they will be able to do after the fingerprint of the chemicals being carried is to determine what came from the derailment and what was preexisting. It is likely going to dredge up contaminants from prior industrial use.

1

schmuttis t1_jasui55 wrote

I'd like to know how far into surrounding states this "black cloud" traveled.

1

pekepeeps t1_jau72sh wrote

Replying to wagsman (#2,155,884)

This is what happens when administrations constantly yank back and forth on serious agencies we need. No political party should be allowed to say- let’s protect the super rich instead of water

Republicans constantly get people to vote against their own damn water and clean dirt and soils in their yards to garden.

The EPA The USDA The FDA

2