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MisterMutton t1_jeda2u9 wrote

All of a sudden everyone in r/Pennsylvania is a satanist. Some things are engrained in people’s minds to not be what you, supposedly the correct one, think it is, anthropologically speaking.

Imagine students came up with a club called, idk, Knights of Mein Kampf Club? They would sit around, read and watch old films about (s)Hitler, and make some shrine for him. Should students be allowed after-school allocations to run such a club?

EDIT: It’s actually hilarious to see all the satanic temple janitors come out. I’m sure the organization does important, good work in communities across the nation, but the reliance on government, for anyone and anything, is a one-way ticket to being unsatisfied.

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EricErichErik t1_jedbhzu wrote

You do realize the satanic temple don't believe Satan exists right?

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[deleted] t1_jedcvxc wrote

[deleted]

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EricErichErik t1_jeddoam wrote

Think you're confusing it with the church of Satan.

From the satanic temple website

"Resolutely non-theistic, The Satanic Temple does not endorse supernatural (or “supernormal”) explanations, a position also codified in the tenets which state, Beliefs should conform to one’s best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one’s beliefs."

Satan is a symbol for them, not an actual diety.

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MisterMutton t1_jedburj wrote

That’s what I’m saying, most people don’t know that. Naturally anyone hears satanism and thinks evil, that’s why I said anthropologically speaking…it’s an observational explanation for this fiasco.

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Thecrawsome t1_jeedb4g wrote

You're really close.

  1. Be offended by the name
  2. Be confused why they would do something so "evil" <- You are here
  3. X
  4. Realize it was satire on what religion has been doing all-along, and Satanism was necessary for #1 to happen in the US political climate.
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Otherwise_Comfort_95 t1_jee77a9 wrote

Then they ought to change their stupid name

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spiraldistortion t1_jeek6yg wrote

It’s a nontheistic religious organization. They revere the idea of Satan, what he represents in the stories they like. He’s a fictional role model and symbol used in their rituals, prayers, etc.

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Otherwise_Comfort_95 t1_jeelesu wrote

Okay, so it’s semantics. They don’t believe he exists but they believe in what he represents. Got it. Can you explain to me what he represents?

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T3hLemming t1_jeeo1xt wrote

From TST's website:

I One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

II The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

III One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

IV The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

V Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

VI People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

VII Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

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Otherwise_Comfort_95 t1_jeeqwsw wrote

Looks like some solid ideas. All religions say the right stuff, they just don’t all practice it. Honestly, when I hear satanic temple, I’m thinking devil worship, cutting the heads off goats and human sacrifice, they should work on their brand messaging. 😂

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spiraldistortion t1_jeeuw3l wrote

That’s kind of the point, at least in part—people claim to follow Christ despite actually supporting supremacy, stripping others of their rights, and doing lots of harm, so the Satanists are playing the role of the Adversary and trying to balance the score by doing good in Satan’s name. Where Christians are abusing religious freedom laws, the Satanists can swoop in and remind them that Christianity is not the only religion who can benefit from those laws. If Christian groups can be in schools, fine, but they have to allow Satanists (and every other religion) or remove religious indoctrination entirely. Where Christians are praying at town meetings, fine, but they have to allow for Satanic prayer as well, or remove prayer entirely. Either way is a win-win, either for secularism or pluralism, anything is preferable to one religion having superiority.

The philosophy and ethics that TST preaches are functionally identical to those taught and believed by theistic Satanists as well, and truthfully most Satanic groups are nontheistic. In the way they practice it, it’s irrelevant whether Satan exists or not, because they believe that taking action in the physical world is stronger and more effective than prayer/spirituality.

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Otherwise_Comfort_95 t1_jeew1ik wrote

I’ve seen the light. Thank you

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spiraldistortion t1_jeexafl wrote

Of course, I’m happy to help. Thanks for being open-minded! If you’d like any books on the subject (including academic/historical studies and the like) my DMs are always open. Most people have no idea what Satanism is (outside of horror movies and pop culture), I’m always happy to explain what the religion and subculture are actually like! Pretty disappointing for those looking to sell their soul (because that’s not a thing) or wanting to engage in human sacrifice (also not a thing), but great for the average goth/punk 😂

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Bargeul t1_jef5jc3 wrote

>Honestly, when I hear satanic temple, I’m thinking devil worship, cutting the heads off goats and human sacrifice, they should work on their brand messaging. 😂

Right. Because your prejudices are definitely their fault.

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Wuz314159 t1_jeez8oa wrote

>Can you explain to me what he represents?

You never expected people could answer "Yes" because you have no answers for your beliefs?

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Wuz314159 t1_jeez2zr wrote

No. It's just for triggering right-wing snowflakes and it works well at that.

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BamitzSam101 t1_jedcmih wrote

Well considering Mein Kampf is not a religion and Hitler wasn't a religious leader/deity no... it still would not apply. This is about Religious freedom which is a Constitutional right. Ethically, they should not be allowed to deny a Satanist club and allow a Christian club, or a Buddhist club or an Islamic club etc...

Obviously I'm not saying they refuse all religious observations (I.E. Prayer, meditation, fasting etc...) but After school clubs most likely do not fall under that observation. You either allow all, or deny all. Fair is fair.

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MisterMutton t1_jedcvje wrote

Technically anyone can make up a religion though…I’m just saying, none would better than all in this case, situations get hairy with any school administration.

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BamitzSam101 t1_jedfvvw wrote

Well yes anyone can make up a religion but that doesn't mean they're Legally and constitutionally recognized by the federal government. The satanic temple became a legally recognized religion in 2019 and therefore is entitled to the same representation and leeway as any other religion...

Personally, I think religious studies are important to avoid the racisim and bigotry that often comes with ignorance of other peoples beliefs. But people fear what they don't know and don't like to learn about what they fear. Thus, the wheel of unnecessary ignorance turns on and on.

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CaptainestOfGoats t1_jee38ed wrote

Tell me, between Christianity and Satanism, which religion’s holy book supports genocide and slavery?

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BMPW666 t1_jee4235 wrote

Mein Kamph isnt a federally recognized religion you dolt.

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Popular-Variation-29 t1_jedfzbg wrote

Mein Kampf.

Also, Satan isn't real, so it's not really a good comparison.

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J_Valente t1_jee80i4 wrote

A lot of the world would say God isn’t real.

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PPQue6 t1_jee8xv0 wrote

I like to call that the rational world.

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Zenith2017 t1_jeexren wrote

Technically correct - the only kind of correct!

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hobbykitjr t1_jee9ppl wrote

ReRead what they're replying to.

They're not comparing God and Satan

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Thecrawsome t1_jeed41t wrote

If you got the point, it's a bunch of people using the same exact religious logic the church uses to take advantage of our public resources with.

In order for a silly thing like a religion to exist, there's always complimenting silly satire.

The hardest-to-cope-with irony here is that any crying-foul to the club existing is immediately recognizable self-advice that should be feeding into some self-criticism mechanism.

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spiraldistortion t1_jeekelw wrote

Satanism isn’t evil, promoting racism, terrorism, or anything else that would justify comparing them to Nazis, unless critical thinking, liberty, compassion, and knowledge-seeking are “evil” now lmao

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Bargeul t1_jef5t0r wrote

>Imagine students came up with a club called, idk, Knights of Mein Kamph Club? We would sit around, read and watch old films about (s)Hitler, and make some shrine for him.

Now, I'm really curious on what grounds you compare Satan to Hitler.

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hippata2023 t1_jeg5n3b wrote

> Should students be allowed after-school allocations to run such a club?

While I would find the club repugnant, that doesn't mean I'd be in favor of banning it. I'm always shocked by "small government" conservatives advocating for the State to control what private people can do on their own time.

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Zenith2017 t1_jeexxpg wrote

Well, given that Nazi beliefs are solidly in the hate speech category, no. I'd argue Christian beliefs are too, but it's political suicide in this country to push back against Y'all Qaeda

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SeptasLate t1_jefpi03 wrote

I know it's not the same but there is something funny about denouncing Nazis while also implying that a religion should be silenced if it was politically viable.

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Zenith2017 t1_jefs20j wrote

Not silenced, but I don't believe any religious person should hold government office. If you're religious it naturally affects your values and conduct, and I am guaranteed freedom from religion within the government and its representatives.

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SeptasLate t1_jeg4a3v wrote

It's interesting in concept but in practice seems problematic democratically. I'm pretty sure the constitution mentions no religious tests for public office. Plus we shouldn't restrict who is allowed to participate in democracy, if anything we should expand it.

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jrrthompson t1_jeefy43 wrote

It's reddit. Hardly representative of the average person.

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