Submitted by [deleted] t3_11rfyes in Pennsylvania
[deleted]
Comments
caniki t1_jc8dhyc wrote
at least you don't have to deal with Philadelphia city wage tax?
Aggravating_Foot_528 t1_jc8dk6s wrote
Places that tax 401k contributions don't tax them on the way back out. Basically makes them a state level Roth.
ProfessorDerp22 t1_jc8ewd0 wrote
Sure, assuming you plan on staying and retiring in PA.
Ancient-Ad8921 t1_jc8fjq7 wrote
Well, yes that would be the goal of a structure like that.
vectorizer99 t1_jc8fqd9 wrote
You just have to stick around a while to retire here. :-)
No taxes on 401k or IRA withdrawals, or pensions or Social Security. Our federal income was 6 figures last year, but for PA our income was so low we qualified for tax forgiveness to pay $0 in PA income taxes.
across-the-board t1_jc8gvv4 wrote
Liberal cities with all of their taxes suck.
Vast-Support-1466 t1_jc8hbn2 wrote
How do you conclude that Pa has the 4th highest tax rate in the nation?
Aggravating_Foot_528 t1_jc8hu70 wrote
There may be a way to prove that it was taxed going into a 401k by one state so that if you move to another that taxes it on its way out it may not be taxes. That's easy enough to figure out
Edit: I was wrong. You follow the tax laws of the state you are currently in. So you can be double taxed - taxes when put in in pa and when take out elsewhere if they tax that. But also you can avoid all state taxes - work/live in Ohio and don't pay state income tax on 401k contributions, then retire to PA and take them out tax free. https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=215167
Cold-Resolve1923 t1_jc8itez wrote
I do enjoy no tax on my pension and SS that is no more offset by the horrible roads, the garbage strewn highways. The abandoned homes, the list goes on.
thaboognish t1_jc8j1lr wrote
Your mom is a liberal city.
[deleted] OP t1_jc8j24b wrote
MakeMomJokesAThing t1_jc8j4dt wrote
Then local on top of it all, chaps my ass.
Cold-Resolve1923 t1_jc8jho0 wrote
If you live in Western Pa you know what I am talking about, Clairton, Mckessport, Penn Hills, PITTSBURGH.
ell0bo t1_jc8lm0l wrote
Yes, but then you have to, you know, live in Ohio.
pa_bourbon t1_jc8ny4p wrote
Michigan would like to chat with you about roads.
JennItalia269 t1_jc8p0wq wrote
And the OP called PA hell on earth….
Ok-Twist921 t1_jc8pstg wrote
Coming from both california and nyc, this shit is funny as hell
gkrash t1_jc8puvj wrote
I mean state tax is high, but it’s still relatively a drop in the bucket compared to federal.. and cost of living across most of the state (by land mass) is very low.
jralll234 t1_jc8qky9 wrote
Conservative communities leeching off of those liberal cities taxes suck.
claudius_g t1_jc8ry57 wrote
Hey now.
We're a commonwealth.
therealbobstark t1_jc8s7oc wrote
How many people will have a pension in 30 years.
sirdeionsandals t1_jc8t0kq wrote
Approximately 6
B0MBOY t1_jc8v014 wrote
It’s fucking crooked. My company moved hq to PA and the tax situation here has everyone pissed.
KeisterApartments t1_jc8w60q wrote
GOTTEMMMMMMM
PennDOTStillSucks t1_jc8y6fp wrote
My husband and I get charged two local taxes a year! Different ones at different times!
ScoutCommander t1_jc8yk1m wrote
Provides source is down-voted anyway. Never change, Reddit
raven4747 t1_jc8ynzg wrote
not sure why you are being downvoted. there are a lot of neglected communities in PA, especially in the western side, that really need help from our govt.
MakeMomJokesAThing t1_jc90lyu wrote
Love the username
Georgehef t1_jc90txu wrote
Stay out then
BobBombadil t1_jc93bdw wrote
I grew up in PA and always complained about our miserable roads. Then, one summer after college, I visited Michigan. The roads really were the worst I had ever witnessed, and from there I swore I would never complain about PA roads again.
BEHodge t1_jc93z4a wrote
Fuck That. I’m headed to Greece or Uruguay. Forced to live here for career for the next twenty years, I’ll be damned if I’m stuck here for my death.
OccasionallyImmortal t1_jc979cf wrote
It's interesting that the state (and Federal) laws justify taxing gains at their full value as soon as you realize them under the justification that the government helped create the environment under which you were able to earn it. However, when you lose money, that's entirely due to your own bad decision-making and you either deduct nothing or only a partial value.
Acceptable_Land3333 t1_jc98cn1 wrote
From.... A former western PA yinzer. It's been the 4th highest tax state for a while. (Link at the bottom) The roads in Pennsylvania and Michigan are just horrible. I live in Ohio now, but I travel to Pittsburgh once a month to check in on family, but i also travel to Michigan at least 4 times a year, and as soon as my GPS says welcome to PA or MI the roads instantly change.
FYI... I just use my GPS to get a heads up on construction, accidents and speed traps.
https://www.pennlive.com/life/2023/03/pennsylvania-has-no-4-highest-tax-rates-in-us-report.html
Vast-Support-1466 t1_jc9htnb wrote
Yea...I'll never get the mass of redditors, it seems. .
Jagoff_Haverford t1_jc9p9jl wrote
Hey! Six and a half!
dippin20s t1_jc9qfne wrote
stay in maryland
Viperlite t1_jc9uaiz wrote
... or I don't know, a certain President who capped the Federal deductibility of State And Local Taxes {SALT), thus increasing Federal taxes paid for those paying city wage taxes... particularly in two-wage families where both work in the city.
Madame_Hokey t1_jc9ukdd wrote
This is one of the reasons why I recently left my job in Philly. That city tax bothered me to no end and claiming I have to pay a tax for the privilege of working in the city. Yeah I’ll just get a job closer to home without the headache.
A_lunch_lady t1_jc9vrj9 wrote
Westmoreland county checking in, our roads suck.
Steelwolf73 t1_jc9y8s2 wrote
PA has a fairly large Government and military employee population. So more then you might think
shiftintosoupmode t1_jca08pl wrote
And how many did I need to pass!?!?
BradleyUffner t1_jca0tqn wrote
Conservative cities don't need taxes to suck.
oovvvie007 t1_jca1x3j wrote
Believe it or not, my job offers a pension (I'm younger, retirement is about 40 years away)!
Fall3n7s t1_jca2768 wrote
Calm down. They tax retirement contributions now versus in retirement.
Educational_Leg626 t1_jca34z3 wrote
Brownsville ✋🏼
markwusinich t1_jca4bpo wrote
Too often those losses are just paper losses. It sucks for those who have real losses, but it is consistent.
rovinchick t1_jca4llc wrote
Just hope that the real estate tax elimination folks don't get their way, because they have proposed increasing income tax by 50% and sales tax by 33% in lieu of real estate taxes. Commercial property owners would be given a gift of free real estate taxes that would be made up for on the backs of residents. In my township, 40% of the real estate collections are from commercial properties, so that's a hell of gift to them and a huge burden for the residents. Not to mention that real estate taxes are a predictable stream of revenue, but income and sales taxes decrease during times of recession, which leads to shortfalls and even more tax increase down the line.
ScorchedOak t1_jca5bpx wrote
I struggle with this one. I get it, it’s a tax burden, but I moved to Bala Cynwyd, right outside of Philadelphia, in 2023, and I pay LESS taxes than I have ever paid before coming from Indianapolis and Columbus, OH. Explain that one to me.
doctorlongghost t1_jca67bo wrote
I pay taxes four times: Federal, PA, Montgomery County (1%), Abington ($1 per paycheck).
I don’t mind the amounts so much as the fucking paperwork.
rubikscanopener t1_jca6ajh wrote
PA state income tax is not that high. It's lower than virtually every state around us.
rubikscanopener t1_jca6rdu wrote
I call bullshit on that study. They included all sorts of fees and local taxes that people may or may not pay.
BluCurry8 t1_jca8809 wrote
Or you live in a state that does not tax retirement income
CurGeorge8 t1_jca8myt wrote
Welcome to the Communistwealth of Pennsylvania
Sea-Biscotti t1_jcaaveh wrote
6... hundred. You need 600 to pass. You got 6.
RaccoonsAreNeat2 t1_jcaei8c wrote
UGhh! Taxes are the worst! No other state has taxes! This is "HELL ON EARTH!"
By all means, move to Ohio. Public resources are absolute shit, half of its population doesn't have basic autonomy over their own bodies, and oh yeah, there are still taxes. So tired of this over dramatic nonsense. There are people living through actual hell on earth. I've got twenty bucks on the fact that you aren't one of them.
[deleted] OP t1_jcagbbc wrote
69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcah54w wrote
They used to call capital gains "unearned income" for a reason.
69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcah7c9 wrote
Every other day there's a post here crying about this tax or that tax. Really makes u think.
69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcahfll wrote
"When I don't like something, it's communism"
Hazel1928 t1_jcailkf wrote
A defined benefit pension? You work in the private sector?
CurGeorge8 t1_jcain11 wrote
"When I'm butthurt, I can't take a joke"
oovvvie007 t1_jcajj7y wrote
Sure do. They also provide 401k and Roth. They match those as well. I am very lucky.
Hazel1928 t1_jcajwpi wrote
Wait, they give a defined benefit pension just based on years of service, plus they match 401K and Roth contributions? That’s pretty amazing. Is it like a small tech startup that needs to hire geniuses?
oovvvie007 t1_jcak8gv wrote
Yes they sure do!!! Nope, banking industry!! Not tech at all.
Hazel1928 t1_jcatgzd wrote
What percentage of your holdings are from accounts larger than 250K?
oovvvie007 t1_jcauij3 wrote
Not sure how to answer this question? I'm just a baseline call center agent. it's all held from my paycheck, hope that makes sense. It's not pulled from an account?
WunkyFinkerbean t1_jcavhg2 wrote
I really don't mind paying taxes, but the administration of taxes is inherently punitive. The fact that there is a multi-billion dollar tax prep industry is insane.
ITcurmudgeon t1_jcawrg0 wrote
Fairly large? We have one of the largest, most bloated legislatures in the nation... If not THE largest. And they are insanely wasteful in their spending for what little they get done.
Edit - My bad, thought you were referring to our state gov. My comment still stands though.
69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcayhb8 wrote
So mad about taxes you're moving to the third world to avoid paying them lol. That is some Facebook Grandpa All-Star stuff.
BEHodge t1_jcayoi1 wrote
Nah, just don’t like the cold.
69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcayspu wrote
Boy, do I have some good news for you about the climate here in twenty years.
69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcazapu wrote
Pennsylvania's entire state budget for 2022 was $42.5b. Ohio's state budget for the same year was over $80b for a smaller population and a smaller economy.
Pennsylvania's budget per capita is the third lowest in the country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets
People in this sub, and on Grandpa's Facebook feed, love to hoot and holler about how wasteful the state government here is but the numbers don't bear it out.
steampunkedunicorn t1_jcb0t51 wrote
I moved here from California and I was genuinely confused when I saw all of the taxes taken out of my paycheck. On top of that, the gas tax may be lower than CA, but that doesn't do much for me when I have to drive an extra hour or two just to avoid the stupidly high cost toll roads.
Cold-Resolve1923 t1_jcb1iov wrote
When heavy industry shut down the people moved on. The cities and towns were left to there own devices which if one watches the evening news or reads a newspaper they will see the effects. Granted some places in Pa are reinventing but it sure aint happening in the Pittsburgh area. We do have a pretty top notch medical industry but that seems to be it.
shiftintosoupmode t1_jcb45wt wrote
Glad someone got it lol
ITcurmudgeon t1_jcb65tf wrote
I wasn't talking about the state budget, I was referring to the actual legislative body, our representatives, who make the laws. Next to New York, we have the largest, most expensive legislature in the nation.
For how large and costly they are, with their exceptionally high salaries, with their numerous assistants, and their assistants assistants, and their personal expenditures which they fight tooth and nail against disclosing publicly, they really get precious little done.
Hashtaglibertarian t1_jcb6hsn wrote
Damn that is some shit right there. They really do screw people over in every state.
69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcb7kmi wrote
> I wasn't talking about the state budget, I was referring to the actual legislative body,
Can you tell me exactly where you think the pay for the legislative body comes from?
This is a perfect Facebook Grandpa post. Short on numbers, long on ranting and feels.
Aggravating_Foot_528 t1_jcb8ily wrote
The key is if you put all your money in in PA to move to a state where they don't tax it at all (no income tax) or IL or... Alabama? Where they don't tax it coming out of the retirement acct.
I guess it would take Congress to pass a law to harmonize the system if Congress itself constitutionally.can. I'm not sure they can because states can levy their own taxes without the federal government. Maybe the federal government could arm twist like they did with the drinking and smoking age.
raven4747 t1_jcb8oey wrote
you are right. deindustrialization in the late 20th century fucked over so many communities in this country. the only way to truly fix the issue is a coordinated approach between federal & state govts (local govts too if they can be bothered, but thats always a crap shoot).
ITcurmudgeon t1_jcb972l wrote
If criticizing our legislature for wasteful, unnecessary spending for self-enrichment is "perfect Facebook, grandpa" post, then so be it.
I'm pretty sure I linked to numbers in my previous post, but here's some more reading:
kdeltar t1_jcb9ops wrote
Greece being third world lol. My friend have you ever heard of any of the islands?
69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcba2ct wrote
To clarify, you think that ~$51m a year is an exorbitant amount to operate a legislature?
That is less than 1/10th of the city of Pittsburgh School District's yearly budget. It is 1/10 of 1% of the state's budget.
It isn't 1965 and bread doesn't cost a nickel a loaf anymore, grandpa.
69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcba737 wrote
Uruguay absolutely is.
hippata2023 t1_jcbaofg wrote
I can't imagine why anybody would retire in PA. The very first requirement I'm going to have of anyplace I retire to is that it can never snow.
This state's awful and being old here is just asking to slip and break a hip.
hippata2023 t1_jcbaq61 wrote
... it's 3.07%
calm down
ITcurmudgeon t1_jcbay2t wrote
Dude, did you read any of the articles? That $51 million isn't the total cost of the legislature, that $51 million is just what our legislature is spending on expenses. Dinners, car rentals, lodgings and other perks that they refuse to disclose.
69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcbbpd5 wrote
Tack on $22,770,000 for 253 General Assembly members' salaries and we've got $73.8m more or less, per year. Still less than two tenths of a percent of the state's entire budget.
What is an acceptable cost to run a legislature in your opinion? What is an acceptable salary for legislators if $90K is just excessive, in your opinion?
If you've got better numbers for the total cost to operate the general assembly than I've got here, you're welcome to show us. Because all I can see here is Grandpa yelling the clouds over a tiny fraction of the state budget.
bxmxc_vegas t1_jcbbrur wrote
PA overall tax rank is the 4th highest in the nation.
bxmxc_vegas t1_jcbbykx wrote
MailOrderDog t1_jcbehh1 wrote
I'm going to put my snowblower in the back of my truck and drive south until someone asks what it is. Then I'll know I've found my new home.
ITcurmudgeon t1_jcbfax8 wrote
I would have less of a problem with their spending habits if they showed a wee bit more transparency. As a whole, our representatives put up a huge fight when it comes to disclosing their expenditures, since it will likely shine light on their wasteful and frivolous spending. So while you justify their spending as being a small part of the state budget, it is still taxpayer dollars that they are wasting and there are some very poor communities across our state that I'm sure would love to see some of that $50 million plus be redirected their way.
And the rank and file representatives are all now clearing six digits in salary, the third highest in the nation. And that's on top of their health care and generous pensions.
hippata2023 t1_jcbg10l wrote
lol I like the way you think!
69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcbg19e wrote
So to be clear, you have no idea what you think it should cost to operate a legislature and you're just complaining like a Facebook Grandpa?
> And the rank and file representatives are all now clearing six digits in salary,
Woopty fuckin' doo, it isn't 1965 anymore. Their base salary is $90K last I checked. That ain't much.
If you're concerned about waste let's go after the PA State Police, who have a budget in excess of $831m per year and suck up a huge amount of our gas taxes that should be going to highways.
Cold-Resolve1923 t1_jcbijiw wrote
Your right, it is a crap shoot, try to imagine the group we have in the halls of the govt. They are more concerned that CRT isnt taught in schools (its not). That Jan 6 was a peaceful protest. That Hunters laptop will send the President to jail. I think you understand, we are out here on a island with no rescue in sight. Hell, just look at the comments about Fetterman, Poor guy seeks help and The republicans rake him over the coals
ITcurmudgeon t1_jcbk127 wrote
Yeah well, you should check again cause they're now all clearing 100k. They recently voted themselves CoL increases. It's not like corruption and waste are some new and crazy thing when it comes to our representatives, but it is obviously something you give little Fucks about.
And yeah, the state police appropriating money that should be going to the states highways is a special level of dumbfuckery which has lead to us having one of the highest gas taxes at the fuel pump and the costliest toll roads in the nation.
raven4747 t1_jcbl14i wrote
well said. its blatantly ridiculous at this point.. but thats apparently what the people need to realize how important it is to engage in the political process as a citizen. all the luxuries we enjoy today are not simply a given. they are a results of centuries' worth of work building a society both in terms of infrastructure but also law, government, and civics. we can't just coast on the past, we have to build like the ones who came before us.
69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_jcbl53a wrote
> Yeah well, you should check again cause they're now all clearing 100k.
And that is peanuts. It isn't 1965 anymore.
Every number I can find indicates that they're spending less than two tenths of a percent of the state budget to operate the General Assembly. There are bigger fish to fry.
RaccoonsAreNeat2 t1_jcbmssv wrote
Wealthy, clever, and so well spoken! What a catch you are. /s
Hashtaglibertarian t1_jcbph2w wrote
I couldn’t even think of a solution so props to you for even putting that together. I love solution people ☺️
[deleted] OP t1_jcbrexq wrote
[deleted] OP t1_jcbscb2 wrote
[deleted]
JesusOfBeer t1_jcburz7 wrote
You can stay out of PA…
rubikscanopener t1_jcbxu89 wrote
I call bullshit on that study. They included everything and it's brother into the bucket of "taxes".
Hazel1928 t1_jcc1wa2 wrote
Oh, you may not have access to that information. I was referring to the failed bank in Silicon Valley. The FDIC guarantees all deposits up to 250 K. So the consumer can know that even if their bank fails, deposits up to 250K are safe. Apparently, that bank had 93% of their accounts over 250K. But we are bailing them out after all. Supposedly it’s not the government (ie taxpayers) that are bailing them out, but it’s the banks (ie customers) who are bailing them out. But I think the banking sector is safe. We won’t let it fail.
SolidAd2342 t1_jcc926l wrote
Let your senator know about your issues maybe they’ll try to help.
BeltfedOne t1_jc89yr5 wrote
I was very displeased to move here at my now ex-wife's insistance. Now I am am stuck with a ridiculous tax burden (4th highest in the nation), local income tax, fees for everfuckingthing, and the worst roads in the known universe. Fortunately, I live in the woods so the critters make up for some of it.