Agreed! I just did mine last Thursday -- would be difficult-to-impossible to miss it.

interesting... that is NOT what mine looked like.

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I had the exact same envelope as the 2020 election. with the date and signature vertically, not horizontally but no details like yours shows, and the yellow "Offical ballot" writing on it

I don't understand how it's so hard for people to follow easy instructions.

I just dropped my ballot off in person since I was in Downtown Pittsburgh anyway today, and the woman taking them asked to make sure the envelope was signed and dated, and that second envelope was used too.

Are you in Allegheny County? Maybe they are different looking per county?

In case your mail-in ballot materials look a little different than OP's (I think each County Elections board is responsible for printing up the envelopes, instructions, and such, though I could be wrong about this), then you may be interested in more info on this. At this link you will find a list of questions relating to mail ballots, including one about what has to be included with a mail-in or absentee ballot. Response bullet point #4 to that question uses the phrase "the current date". This is the ONLY official place online where I have seen this clarified. I don't remember my mail-in ballot packet materials specifying anything more than just "the date."

Lackawanna County so very possible

On my ballot the date line is practically hidden as a break line between sections. Not clearly defining it as a separate location for something to be filled in. Honestly I probably would have missed it if I wasn’t paying attention.

Also as an aside, having to date something that requires delivery before a certain date is stupid.

Which county are you in? I would have thought the envelopes would be the same regardless of county, but I guess not. Like the OP, I'm in Allegheny County where the date line is impossible to miss.

I do agree though needing to date it is stupid as fuck considering it will be postmarked with one.

Probably has to do with the fact the Reds rule my county. Southcentral PA.

Instructions unclear. When I write in 'Mickey Mouse' does the name go BELOW the words 'Write-in'? Or contained within the box?

Oof yeah. I hope people were careful before mailing in their ballots.

> I don’t understand how it’s so hard for people to follow easy instructions.

Instructions are a poll tax. People should not be punished for being lazy or ignorant. Every vote matters.

Good luck getting through life if you can't follow instructions regularly...

I should note that this photo is not my ballot. I cast mine a while back. I just found it on google images. Surprisingly I couldn’t ANY complete images of this year’s ballot online.

Yeah, I'm in Luzerne county and mine looked like the 2020 ballot

I'm a mailman and I saw my FIRST incorrectly filled out envelope today. My customer managed to write the date underneath the line? But still within the box. I left them a note suggesting they fix it, because an error could cause their vote to not be counted... We'll see if they confront me at the mailbox tomorrow

Instructions are a poll tax /s thats some kind of stupid there.

My father last year put his Birthdate in that spot. Luckily my mother saw he did it wrong and they "corrected" it, but would a correction invalidate it? Like it might be deemed suspicious.

Allegheny County gets the ones pictured.

It actually doesn't matter what date you write there as long as you write something. The counties receive ballots with people's birthdate, and they are counted.

Edit: I'm wrong, as one of the replies below states.

Lehigh County's envelope is definitely different from Allegheny's, but it's still pretty clear that you have to fill out the date.

Postmarks don't matter, by the way. Ballots have to be received by election day. And they don't actually care what date you write on the envelope, as long as it's not blank.

And what is considered an incorrect date? On my ballot I put 02 Nov 2022 on it with slashes through the zeros because that’s what I’m used to doing from my time in the us army. But my parents just did it in the normal 11/2/22 format.

If it doesn't matter, then why all the hub-bub then.

It apparently matters to someone who wants to discount votes that are not in "their" favor, and in turn complain about voting integrity.

And you need to be talking in past tense because with new rules and restrictions on the books the future of assumptions is wide open.

I was going to ask this. I dated mine MM/DD/YEAR, with 4 digits for the year, idk how they can misrepresent that, and there were no directions on HOW to date the envelope.

I’m worried they might try to backpeddle for petty reasons like this.

I'm voting in person. I'm not taking any chances with how hard Republicans are trying to cheat and steal elections.

The law says that "the elector must date and sign" the declaration on the envelope. What I believe has happened is that courts held that the meaning of "date" may be ambiguous. For example if someone fills out the ballot one day, seals the envelope on another day, and mails it on another day, which date is supposed to be in the envelope? It's not specified. So if the meaning is ambiguous, it is a slippery slope from there.

But it is specified that a date must be written, so not writing a date at all is clearly not ok.

So yes, it may be that the date requirement is pointless, but it is not necessarily the role of the judge to determine whether a law has a useful purpose or not.

I agree with you, I'm just stating what the law is.

I don't think it should matter, but you can call your county elections board to make sure.

That should be in past tense. Even though counties had previously counted “wrong” dates, the Republicans’ lawsuit the PA Supreme Court ruled on had sought to stop the counting of ballots with either missing or “incorrect” dates, so now those are all supposed to be set aside, not just the undated ones.

How is it preposterous that the PA Supreme Court ruled to uphold PA law?

I agree the requirement is stupid - but until we get the law changed, we should obey the law or face the consequences. So our concern should be getting that requirement stricken from the PA Code - then this won't be an issue anymore.

There are a lot of laws I do not like or agree with - but I still follow them.

What materially stops a vote from being validated if it doesn't have a have written date on it?

They're already banned from even accepting votes that arrive after election day.

So we need to push to change the law. It is ridiculous and it needs to go.

But just because it is stupid doesn't mean we can just ignore the law and do it how we want to do it.

That’s the point of government. They should be able to help me anyways.

Well, because a law is stupid isn't a reason but it being invalidated by existing or new laws is a typical way of changing laws.

Like, if the federal government has a law that says, "you can't invalidate ballots received by election day for reasons that do not pertain to the citizen's ability to vote such as Identity or citizenship"

If the state makes a law that says, "you must kiss each envelope with love before mailing it"

People can argue that being able to kiss an envelope or kiss it with love is not pertinent to the actual voting process, to the verification of citizenship or identity, so it doesn't meet federal rules.

This is putting a date on the outside of the second outer envelope, it is immaterial. to me, this is like the idea of every person showing up for in-person voting will have to show their feet to the poll workers before they could vote, not relevant, even if it is the law.

Typically, determining if a law is a currently valid one has been done through the courts. It is part of the redress that we as citizens are allowed to do by the first amendment. Citizens are going to the courts because they see a potential of this being a thing that could be abused, with no actual benefits to the election/voting process. Some folks see this as something that could be used much in the same way as literacy poll tests were used by some in the south. Especially without a standardized way to respond with the date, and depending on who is looking at it, is 11/3/22, 11/3/2022, 11/03/2022, November 3rd 2022, Nov. 3rd 2022 and all of the permutations could cause someone to be denied.

Then push to change the law - this is the third time I've said that. Clearly the PA Supreme Court sees nothing wrong with the law and the SCOTUS does not either since it remanded it back to the state court, effectively nulling the Third Circuit decision.

Sure, you can just ignore the law - but then don't whine and complain when your vote is discarded for failing to adhere to state election requirements. Sometimes civil disobedience works, sometimes it doesn't. This is one time where civil disobedience won't work.

Your response does not make sense to the statement.

They asked "what materially stops a vote from being validated without a date" and you said, "well, it might be stupid but we still have to follow it"

Sure, no one is debating that. However, you seem to think that going through the legislature is the only way of dealing with laws when that isn't exactly true. And no, I am not talking about civil disobedience.

and if that is what you got from the supreme court's decision, you may want to read it closer. They invalidated the case because it was moot. meaning that the decision does not matter anymore. The PA supreme court has gone along with the law as is, however a concerning part of that decision was the "incorrectly" dated envelope segregation. that calls up what I said in the last message. what does "incorrectly" dated envelopes look like?

Nothing - except the legal requirement under Pennsylvania state law. That is the root of the problem, and that is what needs addressed.

Sure, and once again, there are other ways than forcing legislators from rewriting the law to change the laws, such as it being found invalid vs other laws, such as the courts.

The PA supreme court was pretty split on it, and the us supreme court allowed the ballots to be counted in june/july which led to the republican candidate losing, then they said the decision was moot. So they didn't actually make a decision on a thing in a wider context, just a very narrow context.

but hey, that's fine. stupid republican laws can exist.... and now they can't complain about it for this election.

I guess I am just concerned what an "incorrect" date is... and who decides that.

Vote in person. Only way to know yours was actually counted in PA. This is a joke. (Again)

Same!

I bet a bunch of folks probably think. I should date it when I drop it off. In a mad rush which we are usually in they totally forget.

^^^ Troll Account ^^^

Its weird seeing my college professor on the ballot for US Senate.

Democrats always preach how smart they are, yet they also claim they can't follow simple instructions on a ballot.

Berks county, had old envelope design as well. Old design is problematic!

I agree with you in principle - we should change the law.

But the problem is federal law actually says only things that are “material” to the ballot should matter in whether you toss out the ballot or not.

The debate is whether the date is “material” to your vote. I, and I imagine most others, would argue that it’s not. It is immaterial.

Many civil rights lawyers would interpret this to mean that it is actually illegal to not count the ballot if the date is messed up.

And I imagine that’s the way the PA Supreme Court would have ruled if not for the recent death of one of their justices.

My envelope did not look like that. The date line was directly below the signature. Small print and directly on top of spanish section. It looked like it was almost the spanish section. It really should be highlighted if it's so important

Ask not what forms you can fill out for your government, but ask what forms your government can fill out for you!

Yeah if this thread has taught me anything it’s that a lot of counties are still getting the old ballot design. So much for relief.

I think a lot might be tossed for improper dates, missing sigs and other reasons.

Yes, I'm in Berks.

Not sure why it cannot be like a legal document. Big red arrows, sign here, date here. Seems like would remove any confusions, unless you're color blind I guess.

It's not that it was difficult to fill out, but it could have been a smoother form.

Same but mine is definitely the new ballot

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And yet…

Oh sure I'll just write a penned letter to my local congressman and the law should be changed shortly!

Grass roots campaigns are how these things start.

You're right. I'm not sure how exactly they determine whether a date is incorrect though.