Is the restaurant part of the Atlas Group? If so, I’m not surprised at all.

It is not. I originally posted with the name of the restaurant and the EC’s name, but it was locked by moderators. I’m not sure what the rules are, but I will happily drop the name again if it won’t shut down the thread.

The restaurant is in a hotel (with three letters in its name…a climbing or creeping plant) and in Mt. Vernon.

Anyway, from what I’ve been reading today these stages are actually illegal. My buddy is in his 50s and old school, but he needs to ask to be paid out.

I don't know the legality of this practice but it's a common practice in salons too. At least it was way back in the day in another city I lived at the time. I "tried out" at multiple salons that strung me along and never hired me and never paid me. I suspect they do it knowing full well it's free labor without ever intending to hire anyone. It's super shitty and exploitative. I'm sorry for your friend. Maybe look up the state labor board?

Fuck that shit. Put them on blast.

hmm. could send them an invoice for services rendered. if they don't pay, go to small claims court.

Does it rhyme with Cluck Cluck Moose 😂

Magdalena

I would say he needs to contact the department of labor.

Review bomb is the way. Magdalena bistro correct?

Tell them to go public. I would never tolerate this from a white collar employer, and it should still be unacceptable to treat workers this way.

But it should also be a lesson to your friend to always get things in writing.

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There was never a contract to get paid so he is out of luck. Poor guy.

By chance is it part of the Atlas group?

I don’t believe Magdalena is part of Atlas.

Oh. I’m sorry if the name was posted I’m distracted today. That just sounds like some shady stuff Atlas would pull.

Oh, that’s ok! I would expect the same. Really surprised that Magdalena operates this way.

This is a common practice with these shady business owners in Baltimore. I’ve worked in hospitality in the city since I was 19. And it’s happened to me getting ghosted for a server and bartender job after being confirmed hired. It’s sucks but MD is “at-will”.

Restaurant stages and lengthy unpaid trial shifts are both illegal assuming he cooked for customers. He should ask to be paid and mention this when he does so.

9 hour stage? jesus christ longest i’ll stage before i require payment is 4 hours. buddy was probably used as a placeholder till the EC friend was able to actually start working.

I know plenty of white collar employers that make job candidates complete large sample work products as part of the hiring process which they are not paid for, but can often take multiple days to complete.

It is indeed still something that happens. I had to do one too for my last job. If it's something that only takes an hour or two, I don't think it's that bad. But anything more, one should be paid for.

Contact the State of Maryland department of labor

That sucks, but you're a good friend. Hope your buddy can get back on his feet

was your friend promised payment for the work performed? it was it on a "trial" basis and he thought it he did well he would get a job? was the "EC" even someone in a position at the restaurant to hire people? or was he just a dude talking big on a side job making promises and scanning your friend?

MD Dept of Labor wage claim info: https://www.dllr.state.md.us/labor/wagepay/wpremedies.shtml

They can't ghost your friend if your friend shows up at the restaurant

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Sure The Department of Labor could answer that question. I am pretty sure free labor is never a thing.

Yeah. I’m shocked at a 9-hr stage that would not at least pay minimum wage or $100 just to be decent.

I’m hoping so. Life has been hard on him these last few years. It was the look of disappointment and defeat in his eyes when he told me that led me to post. I am former restaurant industry and am friends with many still in, including some owners. But this really rubs me the wrong way. I might be more outraged than he is, which might be due to our age difference.

I’d like to think that an offer of a position, once accepted, means that he should receive unemployment insurance now.

He told me that he met with the EC the day after the stage, and they agreed on his rate and an official start date of last week Tuesday. My friend felt certain that everything was set and ready to go.

That is super disappointing.

ok you missed the entire point.

was dude actually in a position to offer your friend this job?

ok sure, he may work at that restaurant, but he could have just been a random cook out lower level manager that had no ability for hiring.

Lol. What point do you think I’m missing…? Executive Chefs are certainly able to hire, and that is who offered him the job and whom he sat down with to discuss salary.

how do you know it was the actual executive chef? because your friend told you?

I feel like review bombing isn’t the best way to handle this. Why not wait til OP’s friend tries another course of action? I mean, they haven’t asked for money yet (not that I expect it to be paid). Solid chance ownership wasn’t even aware the EC did this. Reviews can really fuck with a place - is it worth potentially ruining a local business over this?

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Yes. It’s because he told me, and I believe him 100%. In the several years I’ve known him to be many things, but a liar is not one of them. He’s at times irritatingly honest.

That said, I know the point you seem intent on making, so feel free to run with it.

What restaurant? Also have him try Cindy Lou’s fishouse. It’s In Canopy hotel part of Hilton in harbor east. A working interview or stage he should be paid minimum wage at least

You/your friend should know better than to expect ethics from the hospitality industry.

Assuming a line cook makes 20 an hour, which is high, that means your “friend” is owed $180 bucks. Closer to $140 after taxes.

Youll likely spend more time in this thread than your friend did at work, and neither of you will ever be compensated.

Fact is, hospitality is toxic and this is a $180 sign of gratitude that they don’t have to work for that EC.

To become a software engineer, I completed over 100 hours of “take home” assignments. This is very common and an acceptable way to see if people are not entirely full of shit.

And not to be the dickhead, but a huge chunk of people in hospitality are full of shit.

Hiring for any job that pays more than 40k will take 3-4 steps, and likely 2-6 weeks.

That’s my strangers friend we’re talking about!

They charge $14 for celery soup. They’ll be ight. We shall wait for the verdict of the situation being properly handled if not…bombs away.

But also you don’t think My strangers friend will get paid. You also don’t think ownership knows about this shitty act.

What would be a good course of action for stranger friend to take and a good response from establishment?

I would create an invoice using whatever the fmv is of the services rendered and reach out to management/owners. If that doesn’t work after a few tries, reach out to the dept of labor. I just think it’s the chef that should have to suffer, not the entire restaurant.

Edit: just noticed Sally O’s is hiring a sous. OP’s friend should apply. Seems like a great place to work plus they’re on their way to making their own little empire - aka great opportunity for advancement.

This is the reason why so many ppl quit the hospitality industry en mass. As someone who worked in the industry for 15yrs this is not uncommon. I worked many “training” shifts that were unpaid. It sucks! I would encourage your friend to keep applying. He will land somewhere soon.

Eff that - out the restaurant. This crap goes too long, too far in the industry and crap needs to end, period.

But someone else mentioned it earlier - an invoice could be a step in that direction, but your friend will most likely not see that money and court fees may be way more than what the services rendered were. Second option is Labor board to report them, third option would be letting the local councilmember who oversees the area covering the restaurant also know.

If he thinks he has enough info to take it up in a legal action, I'd be happy to help. I'm just about to wrap up law school and can ask friends to see what pro bono resources are available to connect your friend with.

The question is whether the employer uses the product of an interview to profit. For example, a 12 hour take home programming test is shitty, but a 12 hour take home test for a fake job where the employer uses the code in production is criminal. Usually it's the former, and ppl get conspiratorial and think it's the latter (doing the latter doesn't tend to even work well, since someone still has to debug and support the code).

Woodberry Kitchen and Foodshed in general does this constantly, amongst other shady payment practices. A lot of beloved places around town get away with it because they are beloved, just based of my experiences and opinion.

It's so common here, unfortunately. I had a similar experience with Ekiben.

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This place was so good like 5ish years ago. Now, not so much. They could’ve used your friend’s help- their loss. Send them a bill

My job is hiring… it’s bs but it’s something until he can find something else they’ll definitely hire him. It’s really easy and it’s cooking.

Is it common? Perhaps.

Is it acceptable???

No.

No. No. Bad.

Nah call DOL you do not work for free. If that 9 hour shift was part of the interview process you can at least get paid minimum wage for it.

yeah i mean don’t get me wrong i think staging is bullshit and you should get paid for the work, on that same note i’ve seen countless people lie and apply for something they can’t do and it’s proven in stage.

friend should have been paid at the end of the day and immediately did paperwork, tax forms.

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Would your friend be willing to take a job as a cashier? I know of a restaurant that is looking to hire full time. Not the dream job, but they’re good people and it’s something to get him a little more stability.

You have to have worked a minimum time frame in MD to receive UI benefits. A job offer does not entitle you to that.

Ya tell your friend to get everything in writing next time. Idk how common it is in the restaurant industry to work 9 hours for no pay but that sounds like some bs as an outsider looking in.

As always in situations like this a lawyer is going to give the best advice.

Thanks. Will let him know.

It was Magdalena. I’ll let him know about Cindy Lou’s. Thanks.

It is some serious B.S. Unfortunately, he seems like he doesn’t want to raise a fuss, despite me telling him he could probably get some compensation.

Post in r/legaladvice and be sure to include your location. They can provide the most appropriate course of action.

A lot of advice and experience has already been shared, but I want to reiterate: Verbal agreements are tricky-- but regardless of legality, it's super shitty to get used and ghosted in any capacity. Your friend is right to be upset at being led on then not even given the courtesy of "hey, something happened last minute. Here's compensation for your time," which was wasted.

I don't care if this is "standard" or "not unheard of" in industries-- kudos to your friend for sticking up for themselves and not rolling over.

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This is a common fine dining kitchen practice, not just a Baltimore thing. It is the kitchen equivalent of an interview , If it is paid ( usually it's not), you agree to that before you start. Your friend just didn't understand what he signed up for.

Does your friend have a record? Does he know anyone else who works there?

EDIT: downvotes?

I’ll defer the hater attitude and downvotes to let you all know that now I work 20 hour weeks at MOST, from wherever I want, and make a healthy six figures.

Sure the scale differs when you’re a software engineer, not a cook, but the fact is that for all jobs, I don’t trust anyone’s resume, I trust how they handle Sunday brunch or a regional instance of an AWS cluster failing during deploy that causes the SaaS app to fail on a peak weekend.

I’d never hire you blindly, but I’d let you do a coding challenge, the same way I’d let you stage during a catered event to see how you handle it.

To be clear, each job application is maybe 2-3 hours of work, I didn’t do 3 full time weeks of work for one app, as much as the software engineering job market is very competitive and it took a while to find a good opportunity.

Get with it or stay poor, sad and broken, homies. I am only here to help provide insight into how the rest of the world without college degrees, myself included, makes it.

While you and everyone else on Reddit lives in a dreamworld, the rest of us have accepted it for what it is and figured out a way to make it work. But enjoy your echo chamber, there’s some benefit to venting…

The only reason these things happen is because people are dumb or desperate enough to do it. And then when they realize they been had, are too embarrassed to do anything about it, which encourages these piece of shit owner types to be even more brazen.

Don't worry they'll cross the wrong MFer one day who will be well connected enough to solve their problems.

Also is it just me or is the whole industry going to shit fast around here...

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Couldn’t agree more. The idea that if something is “standard practice” that makes it okay is laughable. People defending working for free are just people who had the means to be able to afford doing that in the first place most likely.

Call them out!!!

This is not a stage. A stage is an unpaid internship for aspiring chefs to learn techniques in established kitchens. What you’re describing is more of a trail, but a 9 hour shift making food for paying customers is abuse and your friend is likely entitled to be paid.

Filing a complaint with MD DoL is filling out some paperwork. They have their own investigators who will do the fact finding on your behalf. In MD damages are treble for flagrant wage violations.

If he isn’t willing to “make a fuss” then that’s that. Just know that you have to put some work in to recoup this and filing these complaints helps enforce labor laws that protect workers from employer mistreatment.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-md-ci-woodberry-lawsuit-20150612-story.html

This is pretty widely known and people still support their business so I’m not sure I can really make a difference lol

I won't choose to eat there. Horribly exploitative practice. Especially considering the price of a meal there. I went to Woodberry once but will never go back because of what I e heard about my them since. That's some total bullshit

I don’t believe he has a record (criminal?), nor do I think he knew anyone who works there. Normally he’d tell me if he know someone. He’s been in the industry and in Baltimore for a while, and often he has worked with someone before or at least knows someone on the staff.

I guess these guys will get away with it because my friend doesn’t seem to be up for the challenge of at least asking for some money for the day’s work.

It’s a tough industry, and I am glad to have left it. Thought the owners learned a few things about humanity after the pandemic, but perhaps not.

Restaurants that put the chef's name on the menu are an argument for Maoism more often than not.

I ask because I've seen it happen where someone is offered the job then either a background check turns up something or someone on staff dishes some dirt on the prospective new employee and the restaurant ghosts the guy.

According to my chef friends, a stage is also like a try-out in a kitchen for the executive chef to see how well you can prep and cook and see your technique.

There seems to be a clear difference between assessments of an applicant’s ability, on one hand, and the sale/use of their work product, on the other. I’ve gone through lengthy job application cycles as well, which have included completing hypothetical assignments. But that’s entirely different than doing work for someone, ie creating something that that person then profits from, resells, or otherwise takes ownership of. That’s called unjust enrichment and can lead to civil liability. The legal way to do this is to have a 90-day provisional period where an employer can decide not to hire you, and offer you less benefits during that period (though they still have to pay you).

The MD Dept of Labor is one way to go, but it may take a while. If you want to DM me I can talk about options with your friend. I am a lawyer in MD that does this kind of work.

I appreciate it and will let him know. Will shoot you a message either way.

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It’s not different from what I originally said, but for some reason all of you chose to think I put in nearly a month of work for some app where my coding assignments were used in production which really happens far less often than some of the hiring horror stories suggest.

While that does happen some of the time, it’s not common practice. I get it though, the downvotes are just projections of insecurities bcz jealousy causes weird reactions.

I would guess some kitchens in the US have come to use these terms more loosely. Traditionally the word stage comes from the French “stagaire” which means apprentice or intern. Many famous chefs got their start begging to work for free in well known kitchens to gain experience or a future position.

A trail is more of a brief working audition. The purpose is to showcase your skills and ability to perform in the kitchen where you are seeking employment.

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Lol. If you think any of this is humble bragging, I feel bad for anyone who tries to have a conversation with you that contains opposing views. This is me doing nothing more than providing realistic insight into a different industry than OP was talking about that has similar hiring strategies, because this hiring strategy exists everywhere and it's goal is to weed out liars.

Until you draft the legislation to require staging/interview time to be paid and it gets signed into law, all of your energy dedicated to being upset at less than legal hiring practices is nothing more than a waste of time. You could be improving your earning potential, increasing your industry knowledge and get promoted, but you'd rather project insecurities about your lack of success in this thread than accept that maybe more of life is within your control than you admit and you're just lazy. Why do you expect everything, including jobs to just be handed to you without earning them? Filling out an application and having a decent work history is NOT earning the job, its earning the opportunity to be considered seriously.

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>just to be decent

just to be legal

And to be clear, writing doesn't have to mean a formal contract, just send a text.

Who is talking about hiring blindly? If you work, you get paid.

I mean, fuck Spike, but this was 2015.

Stage and working interview are pretty synonymous. Some chefs do go apprentice in other kitchens but it's never for free.

Lol yes ECs hire BOH. The EC of Magdelena is well-known. A boastful line cook isn't sneaking someone on the line for 9 hours lol

I see what you mean but with due respect I think this is the exact mentality that allows these places to get away with this continuously.