Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

marketrent OP t1_janqhaw wrote

Findings in title quoted from the linked^1 and hyperlinked^2 content.

From the linked summary:^1

>In 2011, Bryde’s whales in the Gulf of Thailand were first observed at the surface of the water with their jaws open at right angles, waiting for fish to swim into their mouths.

>Scientists termed the unusual technique, then unknown to modern science, as “tread-water feeding”.

>Around the same time, similar behaviour was spotted in humpback whales off Canada’s Vancouver Island, which researchers called “trap-feeding”.

>In both behaviours the whale positions itself vertically in the water, with only the tip of its snout and jaw protuding from the surface.

>Key to the technique’s success, scientists believe, is that fish instinctively shoal toward the apparent shelter of the whale’s mouths.

>Flinders University scholars now believe they have identified multiple descriptions of the behaviour in ancient texts, the earliest appearing in the Physiologus – the Naturalist – a Greek manuscript compiled in Alexandria around 150-200CE.

> 

>In the Naturalist – a 2,000-year-old text that “preserves zoological information brought to Egypt from India and the Middle East by early natural historians like Herodotus, Ctesias, Aristotle and Plutarch” – the ancient Greeks referred to the creature as aspidochelone.

>Dr John McCarthy, a maritime archaeologist at Flinders University in Adelaide, South Australia, and the study’s lead author, made the discovery while reading Norse mythology, about a year after he had seen a video of a whale tread-water feeding.

>He noted that accounts of a sea creature known as hafgufa seemed to describe the feeding behaviour.

>The most detailed description appeared in a mid-13th-century Old Norse text known as Konungs skuggsjá – the King’s Mirror. It reads:

>>“When it goes to feed … the big fish keeps its mouth open for a time, no more or less wide than a large sound or fjord, and unknowing and unheeding, the fish rush in in their numbers. And when its belly and mouth are full, [the hafgufa] closes its mouth, thus catching and hiding inside it all the prey that had come seeking food.”

>The researchers noted: “Definitive proof for the origins of myths is exceedingly rare and often impossible, but the parallels here are far more striking and persistent than any previous suggestions.”

^1 Ancient texts shed new light on mysterious whale behaviour that ‘captured imagination’, Donna Lu for The Guardian, 28 Feb. 2023, https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/01/ancient-texts-power-new-light-shed-on-mysterious-whale-behaviour-that-captured-imagination

^2 McCarthy, J., Sebo, E., and Firth, M. Parallels for cetacean trap feeding and tread-water feeding in the historical record across two millennia. Marine Mammal Science 2023. https://doi.org/10.1111/mms.13009

375

Ello_Owu t1_japiooz wrote

So like this

https://assets.iflscience.com/assets/articleNo/58533/aImg/34749/1611770074-cover-image-o-meta.png

157

snorkelingatheist t1_jb3abw5 wrote

I don't understand this sentence (nothing to do with whales, but confusing)

In the Naturalist – a 2,000-year-old text that “preserves zoological
information brought to Egypt from India and the Middle East by early
natural historians like Herodotus, Ctesias, Aristotle and Plutarch” –
the ancient Greeks referred to the creature as aspidochelone.

How & why would Herodotus, Aristotle &co be bringing information " to Egypt from India & the Middle East" ?? Are any of them thought to have visited India? &, if so, it seems to me they would have brought the info to Greece, not to Egypt. I don't remember the dates, but there couldn't have been much going on in Alexandria at that period, if Aristotle did visit the place.

2

snorkelingatheist t1_jcie1uy wrote

I see I got some upvotes on this, but I was/am asking a question. The statements i'm querying seem to me hazy & inexact. Does anybody know the source of this "information?"

1

Dinosar-DNA t1_jaofiup wrote

How incredible would it be to see that with zero knowledge of what it is

245

ItsMilkinTime t1_jar785t wrote

Absolutely terrifying. Hell, I would still be terrified if I saw that today

27

roguetrick t1_jaryw9n wrote

They butchered and ate them (in the case of the Norse). They knew what they were down to the bones. Makes sense that their description to the Greek artists gave them mammal like qualities. One has what looks like front paws.

8

check_yes_or_no t1_jap7gk2 wrote

More evidence a cultures myths were a primary means of documenting natural phenomena across generations.

It makes sense because when bound books didn’t exist (or in very small volume), articulating the precise details of a concept (such as a baleen whale that uses this hunting technique) is incredibly tedious and not very memorable. Inserting a monster-parallel into myth is a way of ensuring future generations will be able to appreciate concepts previous generations found inspirational or important to understand.

121

[deleted] t1_jarprgu wrote

[removed]

23

CurveBallcomes t1_jaseafx wrote

Good point, reminds me of how many different cultures refrence the biblical floods. They're all probably refrencing the younger dryas period.

5

mangalore-x_x t1_jbzyzqh wrote

There is a sadly not much mentioned/elaboration that Greek mythology directly refers to Ancient Greek fossil finds, e.g. mammoth thigh bones => cyclops/giants, dinosaur bones => hydra/gryphon. Aka that they had such things in temples as tourist attractions and used it as validation that their mythological age was real.

I found that quite fascinating proposition by a historian in a documentary years ago.

2

Sleep-system t1_jaocntj wrote

So they believed in monsters because fish are idiots.

119

bradaltf4 t1_jaocy4x wrote

We believe in monsters because fish we are idiots FTFY.

48

Kilmire t1_jaojiz6 wrote

It's less because we're idiots but more the fact they aren't real beasts or whatever doesn't matter at all for the stories they help tell and that make them so gripping. Like who literally believes in monsters these days anyways? I'd say it'd be far dumber to forget them outright because they tell important metaphorical stories.

Dragons are real, in that desire to burn society down, steal the wealth and sleep on resulting pile of stolen gold can be seen lots in people throughout history. Doesn't matter if they're actually a flying, fire breathing dinosaur or not if that's what they're acting like.

48

Xirdus t1_jaol3gy wrote

> desire to burn society down

> steal the wealth and sleep on resulting pile of stolen gold

> flying

> fire breathing

> dinosaur

A crow is the closest we have to a real life dragon. It's all of the above except breathing fire.

36

LateInTheAfternoon t1_jap35h4 wrote

Do crows steal stuff, though? Magpies do, but I'm not so sure about crows...

7

CinnamonSniffer t1_jat28su wrote

Crows are infamous for stealing things. They like small shiny trinkets so they’ll steal hella coins

1

I-Make-Maps91 t1_jaoolb1 wrote

How many stories do we tell kids where the fish gets bigger and bigger every time, or the bear scarier and scarier. I doubt that's new behavior, and story telling was probably a lot more common before we had radios and TV.

18

BenjaminHamnett t1_japkafb wrote

Merchants are also incentivized to exaggerate their adventures to explain why whatever they have is priced so high

Also, the world was scary af back then. There weren’t hospitals and first aide everywhere and there is just snakes and predators everywhere. Bandits etc

11

DATY4944 t1_jarifph wrote

Maybe back then they considered these real life monsters. They maybe weren't considered myths at all, because they could be observed frequently by sailors. It was only when they brought the stories back to villages that the stories became exaggerated over time.

2

Sleep-system t1_jass3h4 wrote

I'm sure they did, people were fantastically ignorant and superstitious back then.

0

scolfin t1_japst9h wrote

Or drew whales as monsters because it was cool.

1

indiankimchi t1_jaqi6w6 wrote

And, this, friends, is why interdisciplinary studies matter.

“Dr John McCarthy, a maritime archaeologist … made the discovery while reading Norse mythology”

74

Petrichordates t1_japdlvn wrote

This form of feeding was discovered in the 2010s? I feel like I've seen pictures and videos of this long before that.

50

Time_Possibility4683 t1_japlfqc wrote

David Attenborough's The Living Planet in 1984 showed humpbacks bubble-net feeding on capelin (small fish). It shows great maws rise from the ocean that nothing like a whale with its mouth shut.

49

TXGuns79 t1_jaoqgo1 wrote

What I think is crazy, is everything says baleen whales eat plankton and only plankton. But, here, a baleen whale is eating fish, and not just fry or the occasional fish accendentally.

25

latinforliar t1_jaro7p1 wrote

I am not sure what "sources" you are reading that say baleen whales eat plankton and only plankton. Many sources talk about blue whales eating krill, which is not plankton, but a small crustacean. IANAWB, but I do calls them like I sees them, and I have often seen references to baleen whales eating fish in eyewitness books, children's whale books, and general internet research.

3

maximillian_arturo t1_jaovy6b wrote

To be fair there could be more than one large creature in the ocean that figured out fish will swim into their mouths if they leave them open.

17

AwkwardPregame t1_jar7n8l wrote

If you’ve ever been diving on an active coral reef, you’d agree sea monsters are real and very much all over the ocean in the depths. Eels, sharks, etc

9

The_Razielim t1_jas2h8j wrote

Funny thing is I just saw a post yesterday about a bird (I think some species of crane or egret?) that also takes advantage of that sheltering behavior of fish. It will wade out into the water and encircle its wings and tuck its head under, creating a shadowed area that fish will swim to because it's "sheltered", then just snap them up lol

3

TroutFishingInCanada t1_jaskbww wrote

Giant sea creatures were actually giant sea creatures? Interesting.

2

the_YellowRanger t1_japgvni wrote

I like how the old timey people thought the fish could smell the whales magic scent underwater. That's my favorite.

1

JellyWaffles t1_jarz53j wrote

This made me think of the swimming race in Beowulf. Two guys are in a swimming race and Beowulf says the only reason he lost is because he stopped to fight like 7 sea monsters (don't remember exact number).

If this was based off a real event of some guys in a swim race, what you wana bet one of them got distracted by a pod of Wales?

1