MagicRaptor OP t1_ira88x1 wrote on October 6, 2022 at 2:19 PM

Reply to comment by mcmanus2099 in Where did the English language REALLY come from? by MagicRaptor

The only point you made that I disagree with is point 3. All of the archaeological evidence suggests that the early medieval period of Britain was not dangerous, violent, or even unstable. Quite the contrary in fact. It all seems to suggest that people just kept on living their lives just as they had under the Romans. Not much really changed. All of their civic structures that they inherited from the Romans remained intact, and there was no interruption or change in how the land was occupied or used. There is nothing in the archaeology to indicate marauding bands of Saxons dominating the locals by force or intimidation.

You do make a good point though, just because the migration didn't happen the way Bede describes it doesn't mean it didn't happen at all. It very well may have, but unfortunately we just don't know for certain. All we can do is speculate until new discoveries are made.

mcmanus2099 t1_iracprk wrote on October 6, 2022 at 2:50 PM

Whilst you are right that initially Britania continued as under the Romans it did not remain that way up until the formation of the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms. We know large provincial authorities fracture at some point. It is unusual for this to happen peacefully & having independent regions the size of towns almost always leads to struggles with raids, local resource conflicts etc.

We know the wall stops becoming defense & Celtic raids become more frequent with places like Vindolanda - which carried on as a civilian bathhouse after the troops left, was abandoned. We also can see the coin deposits found that were buried & never returned to.

Whilst it's true large towns & cities, the best places for finding evidence of violence in archeological record would have been largely insulated from this. It doesn't mean the countryside, where wooden buildings leave little record isn't being impacted.

So yes, Britain carries on as before when the military forces leave & do not return but we see a slow gradual decline of authority to local struggles towards the end of the next century.

Imaginary_Engine5052 t1_irb7mvw wrote on October 6, 2022 at 6:13 PM

One small point about your excellent reply... As I understand it, we don't really know why the coin hoards were deposited. It might not be "hiding" as much as some kind of religious tribute, or even a more prosaic reason such as putting it somewhere for safe keeping and forgetting where.

And the unfortunate fact is that if there IS any archaeological evidence of violence or general disruption, it is probably not going to be found except by accident as it will either be under a major city and inaccessible, or in the middle of nowhere (like West Heslerton) and only found through a combination of luck and hard work.