Nuplex t1_j8q7l5z wrote on February 16, 2023 at 3:55 AM

Reply to comment by Nexis4Jersey in This Urban Planner Wants to Build a Massive Circular Rail Track Connecting Jersey City, Newark, Paterson by p4177y

Wasn't aware of this! Interesting.

However, the distance is just not practical for a light rail system. In America we have a habit of over-extending our systems. Light rail runs at too low a speed to justify the cost of extending all the way there. Really, you'd want an actual heavy rail system, e.g. subway/metro system from Newark to Paterson with good frequency, capacity, and speed.

Tho I guess realistically only light rail gets built. Really it would make more sense to build a separate light rail system up in Paterson and its surrounding area. Could be cheaper than extending all the way from Tonnelle

Nexis4Jersey t1_j8q8six wrote on February 16, 2023 at 4:05 AM

These routes are on a dedicated right of way, so they can hit the top vehicle speeds which is 55mph. This country tends to build hybrid light rail - commuter rail more in line with the old Inturbans that used to crisscross most of the older suburbs pre-1950s. The Newark-Elizabeth LRT should be a light metro along with the proposed JFK Boulevard BRT. Building a Metro on the other lines would be very expensive as it would have to be fully grade separated and would require a new separate approach to the terminal stations. Where as the current proposal would just be extension of existing lines , replacing a few bus routes. The proposed Hudson-Bergen-Passaic LRT would be an extension of the line Hoboken-Tonnelle Avenue service & the Northern Branch LRT would be an extension of the West Side Ave line. With the proposed Newark-Paterson LRT that would be an extension of Broad Street Shuttle. The density along alot of these corridors is too low to justify a metro but requires more frequent service then an electrified commuter rail with closer station spacing. The existing NJT commuter rail service could then act as an express service.

Nuplex t1_j8qa06o wrote on February 16, 2023 at 4:16 AM

I think everything you said makes sense!

I'm very much a proponent of dont let perfect be the enemy of good or even okay or even existant in the case of US Public Transit. If anything passable got built I'd be happy.

I just don't think we'll see these lines any time soon. It makes sense but I have very little faith in the state. I mean the extension for the HBLR up to Englewood makes plenty of sense and has tons of pent up demand, and yet not a single shovel has hit the ground in almost 20 years despite seemingly being around the corner.

I do think some extension or some system in Paterson is likely to happen, I just suspect it'll be in 2050 or something.

Nexis4Jersey t1_j8qazcx wrote on February 16, 2023 at 4:24 AM

A lot of the none movement falls on Murphy not doing as much as he said he would. We missed out on so much federal money for the backlog NJT projects and that falls largely on him. Other states even the Red ones have been more aggressive requesting and receiving funding for projects. I think as redevelopment of Urban Jersey and more so Newark-Elizabeth-The Oranges-Paterson you'll finally start to see the state push the feds to fund more urban rail projects. I'm somewhat hopefully that the proposed JFK Boulevard BRT will be a true BRT and not a watered down painted bus lane route.

Nuplex t1_j8qbd66 wrote on February 16, 2023 at 4:28 AM

Given track record of BRT in this country.... we'll see. I hope so too.

Re. Murphy. He is generally good (in my opinion) but public transit is his obvious negative. The fact that $11 billion dollar turnpike widening is being championed by him says enough about his awareness of how modern urban planning works. I know the money isn't able to moved from that agency, but there are other road projects to be done other than adding a lane that does nothing but give cars an extra place to park before the Holland bottleneck.

Aggravating_Rise_179 t1_j8tkt0z wrote on February 16, 2023 at 9:19 PM

Light rail is only called that because of its passenger capacity. It can actually run at speed of heavy rail like the Path and MTA. Just ride the Newark Subway Line after peak hours and you will be on trains that are booking it from downtown to Bloomfield.

If your issues is headways, Newark's subway (the older of the two lines in the light rail system) runs every 3 to 5 minutes within Newark's borders during rush hour and every 10 minutes during the off peak business hours, before transitioning to every 20 minutes until 11pm. This extension would probably just follow that style as this is being proposed to relieve congestion, and having shitty service won't alleviate anything.