BF1shY t1_itzr0r6 wrote on October 27, 2022 at 2:28 PM

Reply to comment by modernhomeowner in PSA: Vet your Sources [Question 1] by RonBurgundy35

Yeah hundreds of millionaires will up root their lives, sell their house and move their families rather than pay a bit more taxes...

Literally not how it works. The tax would apply to 0.6% households in MA and rake in an extra $1.3 billion to the state.

If you don't support the rich paying back into society that they exploit to get rich in the first place perhaps YOU should move to one of the backwards southern states you've listed.

You support almost 7,000,000 people not having better education, roads and infrastructure over 42,000 millionaires paying a bit more taxes...

modernhomeowner t1_itzs5g5 wrote on October 27, 2022 at 2:36 PM

In history, people haven't always gotten better education or roads by increasing taxes, they sometimes get less of that, because it is so easy to leave. This is a common problem in NY, Illinois, California, and in many countries in Europe, higher taxes meant less services because they brought in less revenue as people left. Denmark, Greece, France, all experienced this. How we are going about it here in MA may be even worse; If someone sent your picture all over the state and called you greedy and got the whole state to vote to tax you more, would you not leave? I sure as heck would.

And we don't need all 42,000 to leave. The 20,000 that make just over $1M, who will each pay a few thousand more, they probably won't leave, but more than a few of those making $5,$10,$20M leave, and we have a budget shortfall on our hands.

BF1shY t1_iu0u0u0 wrote on October 27, 2022 at 6:41 PM

I believe you may be mistaken, as measures like this lead to more tax revenue not less, and reports of mass migrations are probably scare tactics and nothing more, although I have not researched the numbers.

If I was to get 4% tax on my income I would definitely not leave the state. I might not be happy and bitch about it, but selling my home, pulling my kids out of school, and moving away from all the family we have over 4%? No. I would not.

Bottom line for me is: It may be a complete disaster and failure, but we can also reverse this measure with another vote. We have been waiting for tricklenomics to trickle their way down to the working class since Regan and they still have not. So I say lets try something new, anything new. It's okay if it fails, but being resistant and afraid of change will get us no where.

modernhomeowner t1_iu0wwle wrote on October 27, 2022 at 6:59 PM

Just look up countries that had high taxes. Look at NY, they have to keep raising taxes from higher income people moving out. Reversing the increases worked just fine for Denmark, they ended up doing very well after cutting taxes back down, but that takes more guts to say "we're going to have a few years of major budget cuts before we can attract new talent again." Taxing the rich only works if there are rich people.

I do think you underestimate dramatically how easy it is to move. They don't even need to sell their home, they probably already have one in a lower tax state that all they need to do is stay in the other home more days than the state here. I think people confuse the challenges someone earning $40k may have moving and someone who earns $5M a year, it's as easy as signing paperwork.

I am fortunate enough to have worked a lot of hours in my 20s and can pick up and go if my kids school starts to have teacher cuts or if the state now tries to raise taxes on me. I already once left a state that raised taxes on working folks when the rich left, I can easily do it again. From the sounds of it, many people on this discussion think moving is hard and that leads me to believe they wouldn't be able to leave as easily as I could if conditions suffer. Just to be clear, do I think this one measure is doom and gloom, absolutely not. I don't believe enough people would leave that we will have catastrophic layoffs of teachers, but I do think there will be some issues 3 or 4 years down the line. Add that to the highest electricity rates in the US, my property taxes up are 40% since I moved 5 years ago, the cost of produce seems to be increasing a little more than other parts of the country, eggs which used to be the cheapest source of protein is up 1,100% in MA but no where else in the country is anywhere near that increase, heating costs are growing at a crazy rate; when you compound it all, we aren't making smart thought-out decisions in MA. It seems we are going for legislation based on talking points rather than looking at the full consequences of our policies.