Because Mel Gibson

Is that really it, do you think?

People like violent night more than Fatman. What's so hard about that to get?

Why do you think your opinion is more valid than theirs?

That’s what I’m asking. I want to know what I’m missing, and why people enjoy the other movie more.

Yeah, I think it’s just as simple as that. He’s done some great performances ever since his rants, but his image is irreparably tainted.

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To me, Violent night just had many memorable characters that kept it more interesting than Fatman. Honestly I can't even remember anyone except the kid, Gibson, and hitman in the movie.

Also.. A kid hiring hitman to murder Santa is just too bleak. Meanwhile Santa saving a family held hostage is just easy to digest.

If anything those review numbers you're referencing are critic scores.

The audience scores on RT for both movies are within like 4 points of each other.

Sucks too because everything he’s directed is amazing too, probably missed out on so many great projects.

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Violent night was Die Hard with John McClain played by Santa Claus. Also David Harbor is more likable the Mel Gibson at this point.

I haven’t seen the other one, but that’s mostly because I knew nothing about it. I’ll probably watch it at some point now.

Violent Night is basically “The Night the Reindeer Died” promo from the beginning of Scrooged… just no Lee Majors.

And it's awesome

Cause fatman is boring to look at

well OP people hate Mel Gibson

literally all there is to it

Fatman is a low budget average attempt that doesn’t really work TBH. Violent night was really good though

David Harbour is way more likeable, which is why he’s not as good of a Santa for a dark comedy. Casting Mel Gibson as Santa Claus is just fucking hilarious to begin with, and totally fits for a dark comedy.

Edit: just because someone’s more likeable doesn’t make them a better fit for a character.

Loved them both!!

I enjoyed Fatman well enough but in comparison it was pretty boring. Violent night was just more fun to watch with more interesting characters. It also included references to some of your favorite movies and Christmas themes that played well with the contrasting level of violence. It had more comedy also and made good use of running jokes such as Santa not knowing exactly how Christmas magic works.

To me, Fatman was too slow and meandering while Violent Night was much better paced.

Are you sure you’re not thinking of the hit movie, Detective Crashmore, for which Santa Claus did a nude scene and got paid $2 mil? That’s his quote now, so even if you think he did a bad job in Violent Night, he still gets that $2 mil.

Oh man, I couldn't disagree more. I watched both with my family. We all thought Fatman was very well done. Between the dialogue, atmosphere, and writing, I thought it was a significantly better movie. Violent Night just made me cringe nonstop. I LOVE John Leguizamo, but thought this was the worst his acting has ever been. The writing and characters made me cringe throughout. The effects weren't good, the delivery of lines was stinted and forced. The kills were just not that interesting. Both tried to do something unique, but only Fatman did it well, I think. Despite Mel Gibson being a crazy asshole, Fatman felt like the better movie. I also loved Mrs. Klaus in Fatman. She was delightful.

I don't think very real and grounded is the way to go with a Santa action movie.

Fatman is a crazy concept that takes itself way to serious and kind of sucks all the fun out of it. Violent night knows what it is and commits to the bit.

How will we ever know? I mean, I won’t watch anything he’s starred in, directed, produced or tangentially was associated with… even… Braveheart.

I agree, I liked the Fatman better, and the reason for the low reviews is probably like others have said people don't like Mel Gibson.

I don’t care if I die everything has sucked lately

"Eat fuckin' bullets you fucker! You fuckin' suck!"

He's seen every cock on the planet

Violent Night was a great movie. A must watch. Action, thriller with lots of laughs. Way better than expected.

Mel said some really bad things that in my eyes showed me he’s a POS…

Which is a shame because he has put out multiple bangers over the past 5 years that get hate/ignored because of him. I still like a lot of his movies, but get that a large percentage of people have wrote him off completely, it’s their right

I can't wait to shoot that fucker!

O dude, you nailed it. You’ve documented a fact.

I’d watch David Harbor read a dictionary, so that makes sense. His scenes were great, and the fight scenes were super solid!

I mostly felt the rich family storyline fell short of it’s potential, and ended kind of abruptly. They shoehorned some reason for them to burn the money and that was that!

Same! If I was going to guess the reviews I would have guessed Violent Night hit 65-70% and Fatman would be 80%. I was shocked to see it scored so low.

I really wanted to like Fatman. But when I watched it, it seemed like all the good parts were in the trailer and I had seen them already, and I found the movie boring overall. I still haven’t seen violent night.

It is. I occasionally write for very low level Hollywood stuff on the side. I work with partners. None of whom are white. None of whom fit into other racial stereotypes either. But the one line none of my partners will budge on is Mel. Idk why. My primary partner is a huge supporter of Clint Eastwood... despite everything I try to show him about Eastwood vs the everything about Gibson. He's one of my best friends so we've pushed the topic further than I'd be comfortable with others... no traction at all.

I don't condone what Mel did. But I don't think he doesn't regret it. I also don't think it was in his true character. I also think his art surpasses his mental illness. And I find genuine compassion and remorse in his response to these things that I don't find in other great artists who have exhibited similar behavior. But for some reason that's beyond me he is an uncrossable line.

You’re missing out, Apocalypto and Hacksaw Ridge are unlike anything I’ve seen before. His direction is impeccable.

Mel Gibson makes me vomit.

I actually went into Fatman as a huge Gibson fan, even despite everything. I was cheering for his comeback and liked him a lot in the Expendables and Dragged Across Concrete.

So seeing him as a jaded Santa kicking ass? Sign me the fuck up! But, it just wasn’t a very compelling movie. The actors were top notch, and the concept was too. But like you said, it was grounded and real and…it was more of a bummer than a crowd pleaser. The action wasn’t all that inspired, wasn’t nearly as violent as I’d wanted it, and in the end it wasn’t very cathartic. There were rarely any cheer out loud moments where you went, “Fuck yeah Santa is a badass.” And when the movie tried to be funny, it…wasn’t. It wasn’t bad by any means but I finished the movie thinking, “Man there was so much potential left at the table.”

I actually went into Violent Night with trepidation because Fatman was such a let down, but it kind of did what I wanted Fatman to do - Be actually funny, way over the top, yet still keep the essential earnestness of a Christmas movie. It did the rare feat of feeling like a 90’s movie for the family, while being absolutely an R rated movie. The action was better than Fatman, the blood and gore was higher, and the Christmas spirit was coursing throughout. I actually liked Gibson’s Santa more than Harbor’s, but despite both Santa’s having lost their mojo so to speak, playing it up more for comedy was just more entertaining. And when Santa found that hammer in the storage shed, knowing his past? Crowd cheered.

And you can’t get more crowd pleasing than ending the movie shooting Santa up a chimney with the villain and exploding the dude in a shower of gore and viscera.

Violent Night seemed like it understood the assignment a lot more than Fatman. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Violent Night was straight up AWFUL. Fatman is far superior.

Violent Night commits to the bit but it's just so fucking terrible. It's like a Hallmark film with gore.

You can’t separate the person from the art?

Agreed. Violent Night was really bad, nigh unwatchable. The biggest sin it commits is it's length... IT's way too fucking long for what it is. They should have cut out a ton of scenes from this. Mainly the ones centered around the terrible family.

The only redeeming factor was David Harbour's Santa Clause.

They were both ok/pretty good for what they were with some big flaws if you let them bother you.

Mel Gibson was a drunk asshole POS 10 years ago.

Fatman is awesome.

fat man feels too much like a drama than a fun time. way too serious for such a silly concept

Violent Night was a Christmas Movie through and through. It goes through the usual Christmas themes about family and whatnot, the music is all Christmasy, Santa looks like Santa and has magic bag with presents and a naughty/nice list. Fat Man kind of just looks like Rambo but the guy’s name is Santa? Like nothing in the trailer screams Christmas to me. Haven’t seen it so I could be wrong.

Fatman took itself way too seriously for my liking. Personally, I had much more fun watching Violent Night. Violent Night had better pacing and felt more action packed.

The movie is just so joyless and uninteresting most of the time. The pacing doesn't work at all IMO and the two plots seem complete at odds with one another.

In Violent Night, we believe the character is Santa Claus. In Fatman, he just comes off as some random guy who can't pay his bills and runs a factory. For me, Fatman needed a better introduction to the world and Santa to buy into the rest.

Do not mention Christmas

What did you just say?

It all depends upon the Zeitgeist.

Isn’t that the commitment

“Mel Gibson made some people not like him” is my only feedback. Haven’t watched VN, but Fatman was awesome.

Also Fatman was only a couple years ago, not 2018

I think the only thing you might be missing imo is that Violent Night matches what most people expect and probably want from a violent Santa movie. I also enjoyed Fat Man a lot more than Violent Night, but FM is a lot dryer of a movie than VN. For me, the comedy came from its concept and execution as opposed to lines in the script. Meanwhile VN featured jokes and action in almost every scene.

Plus everyone loves David Harbour and Mel Gibson will always carry his baggage

I loved and own them both, I find it just mindless entertainment and found them both very entertaining.

“…takes itself way too seriously and kind of sucks the fun out of it.”

Describes most of the movies Mel Gibson has made for the last 20 years

This is why I liked Fatman. From the trailer it looked like a wacky comedy so when I finally saw it I was like 30 minutes in and I realized that it wasn’t a comedy at all actually, and I appreciated the hell out of that. I think doing a story of a jaded Santa with elves and everything working with the US government while a bad kid hires a hitman to kill Santa, and playing this story completely straight and serious is very bold and made it one of the most unique Christmas films I’ve ever seen. It’s definitely not for everyone but the fact that it went the direction it did I thought was bold and refreshing. I liked violent night too but that movie really felt like what I expected fatman to be.

I actually liked how serious fatman was.

That’s what made it good. I liked how serious it played it. It’s not a comedy at all.

Isn’t Fatman a 2020 movie?

Unprofessional BULLSHIT.

Did it take itself too serious?

This is one Santa that's going out the front door.

Uh, he was literally nominated for an Academy a few years ago...

It’s definitely part of it. Violent Night didn’t take itself seriously - Fatman did. Mel Gibson sucked the fun out of it.

One has the dad from stranger things who seems to be a nice guy, the other has Mel “blame the Jews” Gibson in it… I can’t fathom why one would be shunned more Thant they other/s

Ughhh….sorry but for me Fatman was sooooo damn boring. I really wanted to like it, but I was so bored I couldn’t believe how annoyed I got from it. Maybe it was the pacing? I truly can’t remember. I do remember turning it off because of how uninterested I got. Maybe I’ll try it again. Meh. That’s just my opinion though. Violent night I saw last week and I actually loved it. As someone else mentioned, it committed to what it knew it was and I enjoyed it way more than I thought I would. David harbor kicks ass! Lol

You couldn’t have explained it better. I wanted to enjoy Farman but it seemed too serious for a movie that should be tongue and cheek.

Voilent Night was so derivative it actually offended me

It’s not like there’s some huge conspiracy to try to understand here. People like Violent Night more than Fatman. David Harbor is more like able than Mel Gibson.

History has demonstrated that audience scores are FSR MORE riable than any critic scores.

I can and will. Gibson has said some awful shit in his life, he’s also done some incredible charity work and outreach work for alcoholism. It’s nice to get on our soap boxes and judge everyone from time to time but in the end we all make mistakes and just hope we learn from them.

History has also shown trolls will use it to push some narrative so 🤷‍♂️

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What’s wrong with Clint Eastwood? The guy is a legend.

i thought violent night was pretty good. it was kind of bad santa meets john wick. back story of him was pretty cool, a viking warrior. im going to have to watch Fatman now never heard of it

He BELIEVES he's a legend. That's an enormous part of the problem. I love some of his movies, but he's a one-note actor who caught lightning in a bottle a couple of times as a director. He's not the pathfinding genius he seems to think he is.

"In my opinion, Fatman was the far better film, and it’s not close."

This is 100% correct. Fatman was a much better film. Violent Night was a level below it, and was cheesy in all the wrong ways. But the reality is that a lot of people still don't like Mel Gibson and that plays into the reviews and ratings for any movie he's in. Short of an Oscar candidate type movie, Mel's films will always suffer because of people's perception of him, personally.

Fatman was a decent entry into the Xmas film genre that I'd watch again. Violent Night was a disappointment that I don't regret fast-forwarding through some parts and I wouldn't put it on my Xmas films list.

Wow. Could not disagree more. The man has made some many good and wildly varied movies (and a few stinkers, sure), and he has a ton of charisma.

And watching behind the scenes interviews and footage of him it’s clear he makes movies because he loves stories and storytelling. He’s trying to tell standard tales; at no time have I seen anything indicating he thinks he’s a pathfinder or revolutionary.

I think you took it way too serious. It doesn't at all.....

I would argue that both films don't take advantage of their premise- Fatman has a premise I wanted to see in a movie all my life and then it is quite dull. The black humor doesn't work at all and a bigger scale of the film would have helped.

Violent Night is even worse- interesting premise- opening scene is kinda fun and the we cut to this boring white rich family about whom you have no incentive to care about. The film is tonally all over the place- family film for kids and then a slaughterfest with a boring choreography. Very dull. Shorter runtime would have also helped.

Fatman is more survivable but squanders its cast and premiese

One had Mel Gibson.

Agreed on the learning from mistakes part. But, I have not heard an amends from Mr Gibson. So, that’s a soap boxing hard pass for me. You feel free to support him and all he stands for, but I can’t.

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Nope. Which sucks. I would love to show Braveheart to my son, but while MG lives and benefits from people watching, that’s a pass for me.

I’ll take your word for it. But, for me, watching those would be tainted. I would constantly be thinking, nice camera angle - for a racist. And I suspect that would take away from the film.

Apocalypto, agree, but Hacksaw Ridge? Lol

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That’s why no one watches AOL Blast!

It’s a cosmic gumbo!

Gibson and Goggins are fine in Fatman but the movie felt like a 30 minute TV special stretched to full-length.

Bad pacing, a lot of filler scenes with barely a plot. The scenes with the elves had some good ideas about the commercialization of Christmas but it just wasn't really compelling.

I wish 87Eleven was doing action scenes in Hallmark movies

This may sound random, but how many cocks has he seen?

“You don’t give a shit who gets in your way, do you?”

“What?”

“I said you don’t care who gets in your way.”

“Not really!”

Should have won best picture easily. I’ve never seen a war movie like that, it just hit in every area for me.

Ouf imagine applying this level of activism to everything in your life, there’s about 1000 companies with something nefarious in their past or the past of their owners and ceo you should be boycotting as well. What kind of cell phone do you use?

Hahaha. ‘and all he stands for’ must be tiring be as self righteous as you are. Have a blessed day.

The best parts of Fatman were in the trailer. I cannot think of any scene in the movie that was good and not in the trailer

If Leonardo Dicaprio walked in the room, would you ask him about Christmas is around the corner?

Fatman - uses the term 'fat' as a joke - it also has Mel Gibson in it.

both of these things trigger lots of movie reviewers, who (let's face it) don't really look at movies objectively.

Same here! It was what made it even more funny. The seriousness was ridiculous by design and is what I find to be the best part. The assassin is my fave. It’s my #1 Christmas movie now. I laugh at neatly all of the serious parts.

I've been waiting my whole life for The Night the Reindeer Died to be made.

Thank you OP for convincing me to watch both.

The Academy nominated someone despite their unpopularity and racist remarks?

I felt this as well. Similar premises don’t mean similar pace or execution.

A real cosmic gumbo

Nobody even reads AOL blast

Hahaha “nice camera angle ….for a racist.”

I like this gun. You fuckin’ knew I’d like this fucker.

I finally watched Fatman this yr. While I love everything to do with Santa Clause and Mrs. Clause. I honestly could care less about Skinny Man plot leading up to their confrontation. It just seemed most of his story was him being quirky just for the sake of it with no depth. The actual confrontation was good between the 2. Overall its a 5.5/10.

While with Violent Night. I felt the first 40 was pretty boring with cliched family drama and bad jokes. But the last hour is a blast. The flashbacks were cool. The interactions between Santa/Trudy were adorable and heartwarming. The action and gore were great. I take it slightly over Fatman 6.5/10.

No, it should actually be good.

Hacksaw ridge. 2017

It's a cosmic mix of the action of the '80s combined with the exploitation films of The '70s, but with modern touches. It's hyperviolence, but it knows what it is. It's a bit Tarantino, definitely a bit Michael Mann. It's sort of a cosmic gumbo. It almost moves to the beat of jazz.

Goggins didn’t seem comfortable in the role imo

One name: Mel Gibson, he just puts a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths and makes it hard to enjoy an other wise good movie.

The academy isn’t representative of what general audiences like.

He may kill you but there’s no fuckin way he’s ever killing me. Fuckin asshole, he said that?

Haha perfect, let us know which is better!

Thanks for reading what I wrote and actually responding with feedback.

I haven’t seen either yet, but from your description they seem like two very different movies with a similar central character, but with differing themes and tones. I’m excited to watch both. My guess is, aside from the Mel Gibson thing, is that dark Christmas dramas are a much tougher sell than dark and campy Christmas action comedies (assuming my impression of the trailer is accurate). But, I’m looking forward to watching them. Thanks for the summaries!

I had never heard of of Fatman (terrible title btw) before this post, and as soon as I read “In Fatman Mel Gibson….” the answer was very clear to me.

Never saw Fatman but I saw Violent Night last night and it was just the kind of non-serious action/comedy I was looking to enjoy. Twas funny. Its a Christmas classic IMO

Mel Gibson is a drunken anti-semite whose career has been waning for decades and David Harbour is a relatively up-and-coming actor who is pretty hot off the success of a massively loved and much more contemporary series, of course the movie with the more relevant cast did better.

I haven’t seen Fatman yet but it’s going to be hard to top the chimney kill in Violent Night. That is one of the few things in a movie that has made me laugh out loud.

In all honesty, I didn’t watch Fatman simply because I’ve fallen out of favor with Gibson, and the main reason I gravitated to Violent Night was because of Harbour. Your review makes me want to go back and give FM a try. I love all of Mel’s old stuff, but I find David much more relatable these days. VN is really flawed, and hokey, but I would watch a Yule Log of Harbour as Santa if they made one.

Politics

few ideas as to why.

1st and most important David Harbor, He is riding a career high atm because of stranger things and i think most people cant get enough of him. also he really is a great actor with lasting power just atm he is top of the game in terms of roles i think.

2nd and unfortunately political Mel Gibson ( who i love as a actor) basically torpedoed himself with anti-Semitism. Unfortunately in this world when people are slighted the go to reviews and leave negative ones. id be willing to be some of the rotten tomato's reviews are from people that are just down voting because gibson. This is a know practice in the Gaming world as well as the movie industry.

3rd and probably the most important is in fat man they may it about money. prolonging the " rich people problems" issue. in Violent night it was a genuinely wholesome albeit violent xmas tale. Santa was generally unlikable in the beginning without being whiney and they made a deep background story.. i want to see a prequel that lead up to Nicus the Red becoming santa.. seriously i need to know how we went from viking warrior to gift giving fat man. David Harbors santa had depth and likeability he also had mystique. I watched it as much to see if they would show more about his past as i did for the Nostalgic vibes of 80/90 xmas movies.

​

Honestly i think the reviews are spot on Fatman was about a Santa pissed off over money Violent night was a santa pissed off over greed. 2 entirely polar opposites and the latter resonating with more people as we are not rich like the 1%

thats just my 2 cents

He mailed this comment to Reddit

I like Apocalypto but Hacksaw Ridge was the one of most befuddling critically acclaimed movies I've ever seen. Basically a grand Andrew Garfield mopefest and I generally like Andrew Garfield.

"well OP people hate anti semites"

I couldn't stand the attempts at comedy in Violent Night. Tommy Wirkola has to have the lamest sense of humor imaginable, his Dead Snow movies are just as cringeworthy.

Someone called Violent Night "like a movie written by redditors", and that's so fucking true.

You've been a real good boy this year, David Harbour. REAL good boy.

Might actually be that. Someone more jovial could have really improved that movie. Nothing about Mel Gibson says 'Santa' other than not exactly being enshrined in Jewish-American hearts and minds. And his beard is more white than not-white at this point.

Russel Crowe could have done that movie. I'm not sure there's a better example of a jolly actor with a twinkle in his eye more than him at this point.

I’m gonna disagree with people here and say no, that isn’t it. At least not fully. It might’ve had some effect, but just look at his other stuff. Dragged Across Concrete came out 2 years earlier and has a 76%, and, while not the lead, he’s like second or third-billed in Bandit which came out this year and has a 74%.

So, his public image might not be helping him out, sure, but it’s clearly not enough for critics to completely write off anything he’s in.

Sorry I left out an /s

I think Fatman is the better written film, story and dialogue wise. Violent Nights is just fun though. I'm glad we have both.

I also think part of the problem is that Fatman was basically marketed like it was Violent Nights when it really wasn't. It was a bit misleading. On the other hand, Violent Nights pretty much delivers exactly what it promises from the trailer.

I was iffy on the concept of Violent Night, but the fight scenes and comedy mix were growing on me. What really sold me was the line:

> *Jesus Christ*

> Nope, just Jolly Ol' Saint Nick

I thought Hacksaw Ridge was phenomenal.

Right?! Guy thinks he’s being super righteous and fighting injustice or something while he’s texting on a phone made from slave labour after enjoying products from a company that clear cuts rainforest and displaces tribes for palm oil. He’s easily manipulated by far worse people and lost the plot.

I've seen it twice, good film but I don't see what's so different or unique about it

No, his movies are amazing. He is a legend.

Really? I thought it had some of the best writing, acting, cinematography and direction I’ve seen in a very long time, it felt complete. Garfield’s character is positive, to a fault, so I’m not sure how he came off as a moper. Idk it just worked for me, the dads WW1 backstory, Desmond’s childhood, the love story, the trial, then the 2nd half in Okinawa being its own thing obviously.

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Legit, director said bad thing 20 years ago can’t watch. Shop at Walmart: even though they destroyed small business and local retailers (by design), buy new phone every other year even though company exposed for illegally making products with planned obsolescence. But don’t enjoy this art because director said bad thing.

It felt complete, directing, acting, cinematography all felt on par with each other and the story really worked for me. The dads WW1 backstory, Desmond’s childhood, the love story, the trial…and Okinawa being the full 2nd half was just compelling to me. Also that it’s a true story, and the true story is even more impressive than what they had shown in the movie.

Haven't seen Fatman but personally very mixed on Violent Night. The scenes with Harbour and Leguizamo are awesome, but everything else is horrible. It's like their parts were written by an entirely different writer or something.

>a movie that should be tongue and cheek.

The phrase is "tongue in cheek"

To the three movies that were good that were pushed down, that sucks. It seems now a days that every movie I like, the critics hate and every movie the critics hate, I love.

Someone did a graph with audience scores vs critics scores for video games a while back and you could actually see how the average critic score has dropped significantly over the last 10 years while audience scores has stayed consistent.

Also critics are people too and just a dumb super select segment of the audience. The idea that they don't troll/input personal bias also is naive.

They made since when you didn't have a mass scoring system and you didn't have anyone to talk to about a movie. But as of late, since their predictive power of wether or not I'll, the consumer, will like a movie - this is their entire purpose for existing - is so low they are literally pointless. It's so frustrating that to use rotten tomatoes to see if I would like a movie or not because I have to go to the movies webpage, because the audience score seems to always be spot on regardless of the critics score.

Fatman wasn't 2018?

I only ever trust the non-critical review score (audience) on RT if I’m debating giving a movie a shot when the trailers don’t sell me on it.

One has Mel Gibson, the other does not!

David Harbour was a great Santa Claus

Mel Gibson was a barely passable Santa Claus

Werd

It’s beyond ridiculous how proud people like that are to be dumb-dumbs.

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Hacksaw Ridge is prime post-outburst Gibson. I wouldn't be surprised if he has more big hits eventually.

Violent night was basically die hard rewritten for Santa.

Fatman was like goodburger meets steven seagal.

Both were very good. I could see violent night having a sequel or even a prequel. Fatman was more of a stand a lone movie.

fatman sucked bc jake wasn't there

I like Mel Gibson.

So do I but a lot of people definitely do not

Yea true. Shame.

You always gotta look at users not $#@*c critics

Ya it really is a phenomenal movie, easily should have won best picture.

It turned in a nice profit and has pretty good audience ratings

One has David Harbour who is pretty universally liked , the other has Mel Gibson who is a pretty well known Anti-Semite.

Disclaimer..I have seen Violent Night - pretty good , nothing special. The fight scenes were awesome. I have not seen Fatman due to the above reasoning

I was like “I’ve never heard of this movie, I should check it out.” Then you said Mel Gibson. Now I get the discrepancy in scores