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PPQue6 t1_jcjjljv wrote

You know we're completely fucked as a country when we need to start building saferooms in schools...

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RhoOfFeh t1_jcjjnd5 wrote

They don't want to pay teachers.

This though, there's plenty of money for, because it lets us avoid the important discussion about whether it's actually possible for a well-regulated militia to be behind the regular shootings in school rooms.

166

squarepeg0000 t1_jcjl68b wrote

How can people think America is the greatest country in the world when we're the only country considering building safe rooms in classrooms?

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nassy23 t1_jcjmtib wrote

I can see multiple ways this “shelter” would be ineffective or used by a school shooter to his advantage.

Second, I find it discomforting if someone is looking to profit from this idea.

Third….what in the actual fuck?!? That anyone would look at this idea as a salve and not a symptom of a massive problem that urgently needs a different manner of addressing gun violence.

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refreshing_username t1_jcjmzit wrote

Wait, a pilot program?

Are they hoping to evaluate its effectiveness when an actual shooter appears???

This country is so fucked.

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Picture-unrelated OP t1_jcjnit1 wrote

Replying to refreshing_username (#2,251,725)

I had the same thought, I even looked at the definition to make sure I wasn’t losing my mind

>>A pilot program, also called a feasibility study or experimental trial, is a small-scale, short-term experiment that helps an organization learn how a large-scale project might work in practice.

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Shiplord13 t1_jcjnnjr wrote

Replying to krumpet_ (#2,251,643)

"Would you believe I the local politicians have a relative or business associate that could totally do the job at a better bid than all the other applicants?" - Guy who got elected because he has an R next to his name, probably.

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asdaaaaaaaa t1_jcjp3yf wrote

Replying to RhoOfFeh (#2,251,605)

Pretty sure a bulletproof room also just conveniently gathers victims. Either everyone's going to know the code to get in including the aggressor/shooter, or no one will know it but a few people will know and the room will simply not be effectively used.

After reading the article...

>Once the door is secured, no one can access it from the outside.

Great, so the first person who gets there will probably be terrified, shut the door, and everyone else with run to the door not realizing it's already closed/locked. Or the shooter might prioritize going to that room and using it as a fallback/safety point by shutting themselves in.

This is just a non-solution, stuff like this never works out well when you're depending on a bunch of random, terrified people and children to use it correctly. Also apparently assuming the aggressor/shooter will magically not know the room exists or target it specifically. Since it's not about keeping kids safe, I'd imagine either a "friend" is getting a contract to build it, or it's some dumb political move by someone who should never lead or be in office.

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asdaaaaaaaa t1_jcjpait wrote

Replying to nassy23 (#2,251,717)

There's a reason saferooms aren't really used outside of movies, especially with large groups of random, untrained people who aren't ready for emergencies like that. For the shooter, it actually makes a great point to hold and fall back into, as well as it conveniently gathering victims for them. Sure, no one can get in after it shuts (assuming it was made by someone intelligent, and built correctly), which tells me after the first handful of people get there they'll be terrified/panicking and such the door most likely anyway.

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Jessica65Perth t1_jcjpo5v wrote

What a pathetic country, rather protect the right to own a Assualt weapons than the children

11

campelm t1_jcjqhif wrote

Replying to RhoOfFeh (#2,251,605)

Round here funding for schools comes from 2 buckets. One's for running the schools, One's for constructuon of facilities. These are all approved by taxpayer bonds so you can't mix and match.

Distict my friend works for they keep building state of the art facilities and struggle to staff those schools because the build fund doesn't account for the upkeep. Meanwhile the maintenance budget ballons everytime they build a school.

11

serrol_ t1_jcjr9h6 wrote

Replying to PPQue6 (#2,251,603)

We don't, but it makes headlines, so it gets done. More kids die each year in boating accidents, but you don't hear about those on the news because politicians don't profit from those headlines.

−59

Such_Performance229 t1_jcjt2hr wrote

And then they remember that a ton of kids inside a steel box would be a disaster if a school shooter started a fire. Come on America. Really?

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ux3l t1_jcjtklz wrote

Americans would rather send all kids to school in iron man suits than improve gun control laws

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synchrohighway t1_jcjvmg6 wrote

Well at least the shooter will know where everyone is. Saves some time.

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DarthLysergis t1_jcjx3x5 wrote

Well they may as well blow the budget on that. They obviously aren't going to spend it on teacher salaries, books, school lunches or anything else that would benefit the kids.

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NeonsStyle t1_jcjx9lb wrote

Meanwhile as they assemble everyone gets shot! Stupid idea. It should be press a button and it's available to escape to. You think a shooter is going to go "Oh ok I'll wait till you build it!" ffs

−4

Eeeegah t1_jcjxe3v wrote

This is Alabama - they should have a "live" test run any day now. The only place with a more likely school shooting is TX.

BTW, anyone know if this thing is sealed? I could totally see someone pouring gasoline under the door and lighting it up.

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jupfold t1_jcjy6cn wrote

Honestly, at this point, I’m happy for any solution to this problem. I’d be a lot happier if I knew kids had this option.

Having said that, the biggest problem I see with this, is that it’s great for kids in the 2nd classroom, but isn’t going to do a whole lot for the kids in the 1st classroom.

We’re still willing sacrificing those kids lives.

−13

KindAwareness3073 t1_jck1oi5 wrote

Anything to avoid tge real issue. Simplistic solutions to complex problems made for simpltons by people looking to cash in on tragedy and fear. Go 'Bama, ranked 43rd in education and this is their priority.

13

SsurebreC t1_jck2gpq wrote

Replying to squarepeg0000 (#2,251,660)

> How can people think America is the greatest country in the world

We're told this by old ignorant fools so it must be true.

We're far from being the greatest country in the world. We do many things well (ex: national parks) but we have a long way to go and the refusal to adopt what other countries do better is baffling until you realize that there are corporate interests behind entrenched positions.

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pistoffcynic t1_jck3xiy wrote

Why don’t politicians fix the actual problem? You know, the root causes.

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RenaissanceManLite t1_jck4b1h wrote

Pilot program? Build one and see how well it works in a mass shooting? Results should be in anytime soon.

3

apvizion t1_jck5caq wrote

This way the police can simply wait for the gunman to die of old age and not endanger themselves

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habsmd t1_jck60xk wrote

Oh interesting. So how exactly does this “pilot” work? Are we going to compare how many children die in classrooms without safe rooms vs those with safe rooms? The fuck is this bullshit?

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Cookbook_ t1_jck69aa wrote

Anything but gun controll. Schools have serious issues with funding for teacher salaries and basic supplies but this shit gets approved?

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johnp299 t1_jck6fs3 wrote

What if a shooter gets inside the bulletproof shelter?

3

SamurottX t1_jck6j42 wrote

What's stopping shooters from barricading the only entrance/exit to the shelter, lobbing a grenade through the drop ceiling, or simply collapsing the shelter on the children inside?

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Dry_Lobster_78 t1_jck6lrk wrote

Would be 10x cheaper to equip each classrooms with a M240 machinegun... /s

1

pomaj46808 t1_jck7ok0 wrote

Yeah, but if they're maintained and operated by Alabamans, it's kind of pointless. Are they contracting anyone further north to make sure they don't hurt themselves with it?

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HardlyDecent t1_jckbnza wrote

Replying to SsurebreC (#2,252,471)

Old ignorant fools who already made their fortunes due to inheritance, exploitation of the natives, abject cruelty, market manipulation, nepotism, or just blind stupid luck. The American way. Anyone can do it--except now there are regulations, and no more natives, and the old guys make laws preventing upward mobility...

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MesmariPanda t1_jckd7ss wrote

That's right, huddle everyone together in a room that isn't sealed on the bottom

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Chadmartigan t1_jckedb8 wrote

Replying to DarthLysergis (#2,252,169)

A tale as old as time. People say that we don't fund education in America, but the fact is that we dump money into our schools. The problem is that so much of that money is gobbled up by private enterprise before it can ever hit the classroom (or, God forbid, the teachers' bank accounts). Training, security, software licenses, etc. etc. etc.--schools are an absolute cash cow for private enterprise. And legislatures and districts both are eager to foster these relationships.

So it's no wonder that we see a pilot program for a potentially massive public outlay to solve a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. Why undertake measures to address gun access and mental health when you can address the problem by committing the schools to funding an open-ended arms race against some prospective school shooter?

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SsurebreC t1_jckeqqv wrote

Replying to HardlyDecent (#2,253,048)

Yep. People who saw a ladder in front of them, left by the previous generation, so they climbed it but pulled it up afterwards and then complain why the newest generations are still on the ground floor.

5

dshd66 t1_jcketou wrote

Whatever you do, don't address the cause.

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Homebrew_Dungeon t1_jckfdvr wrote

Replying to jupfold (#2,252,234)

The shooter starts a fire, lifts the ceiling tiles, shoot up people outside of the school during events, or sabotage(stick a pencil or pen in the track/s.)

The shooter will know of these and how they operate, and what ones cant be opened quickly.

Its not even a good bandaid, just a blatant griff in the face of underpaid over worked teachers.

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evident_lee t1_jckfwg0 wrote

Let's not address the issues to why shootings like this only happen in America. Instead let's come up with a stupid expensive Band-Aid for the end result.

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Homebrew_Dungeon t1_jckg47y wrote

Replying to MesmariPanda (#2,253,162)

And shares a drop down ceiling with the attached room.

The tracks are a weak point that can be sabotaged earlier. Dont tell me school shooters dont PLAN.

Also, how easy can a 3rd grader open one of these? How about while hearing gunshots?

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SinsOfaDyingStar t1_jckgydg wrote

Pilot program. AKA eagerly waiting around for another school shooting to happen so they have data to transform into profit.

4

Due-Designer4078 t1_jckhqrr wrote

No doubt most of these schools will be hitting up the federal government for grants to pay for these. They'll serve as a daily reminder to students that adults value their 2A "rights" over students' lives.

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Ok-Hunt6574 t1_jckhv6o wrote

Much cheaper as they implement new child labor opportunities...

3

DarthLysergis t1_jckiefa wrote

Replying to Chadmartigan (#2,253,235)

I worked in the next school district over from Newtown. It is a very wealthy district and the money they spent on security after that was insane. I am sure security contractors were cashing in on it heavily.

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mymar101 t1_jckikps wrote

It’s insane that this is the solution and not gun laws.

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tundey_1 t1_jckjof8 wrote

>The RASR can be deployed in 10 seconds

But how long does it take to herd a group of scared children into the shelter? What's the protocol if some do not make it in quickly enough? Do you hold the door open for them or leave them out to die? And if your child is the one left out to die, are you ok with that? Will the kids be doing drills on how to quickly leave everything and get into the shelter? Who will pay for the therapy for these children?

8

-Raskyl t1_jckkiae wrote

Replying to habsmd (#2,252,689)

Right, does it fail if there isn't a shooting at this particular school involving this particular classroom? Or do they just do a drill, pack all the kids in. And then declare it a success and get payed more than every teacher in the country to put one in every room in the country?

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jupfold t1_jckklyh wrote

Replying to Homebrew_Dungeon (#2,253,297)

I’m not saying I think it’s a good idea and certainly not the best we should have available to us.

But at this point, if I were a parent (full disclosure, I’m not), I’d rather my children have this option than to not have it.

It’s a fucking dystopian nightmare, but I’m sure if you ask any parent of a child who has been a victim of a school shooting if they’d have wanted their kids to be able to hide in something like this, I’m pretty sure I’d know what their answer would be.

Not fool proof. Maybe even a grift. But better than nothing - which seems to be the only other choice I see with my (honestly defeatist) attitude on this issue.

−2

tundey_1 t1_jckkvtz wrote

Replying to SsurebreC (#2,252,471)

>We do many things well (ex: national parks)

I suspect if you look into the history of those, you'll find horrors you never knew about. Do you think ALL those land were just there waiting for us to come along? Just there with absolutely nothing and nobody already there?

https://timeline.com/national-parks-native-americans-56b0dad62c9d

I think Americans tell ourselves that this is the greatest country in the world because it's the only way we can survive living in this hellscape. And if someone came along and said "guys, we can improve" or "guys, America did some horrible things in the past", we just can't listen. But to listen and admit they might be telling the truth is to force ourselves to take a real hard look at our country. And none of us is ready for that.

BTW, prior to just now I had never thought about the history of national parks. Then I was responding to your comment and decided to Google "national parks on Indian ground" and boy, was I not ready for the results.

3

tundey_1 t1_jcklffd wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#2,252,134)

>It's two bullet proof walls that pull out from the corner of the room, meaning that entire square area must be absolutely empty.

It's not empty. It's a forever shrine to the gun god of America. Can't put a table and chairs there, can't put a bookshelf there (in Florida, there are no books anyway), can't use it as a play area...it's just empty.

5

l3arn3r1 t1_jcklppk wrote

Omg stop using target hardening strategies against an insider threat!! Such a waste and psychologically harmful.

You need to defend against the kid in the shelter with you, not ISIS.

2

Hpfanguy t1_jckm9s8 wrote

Or, maybe, hear me out, we can regulate guns? You know, the source of the issue?

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FeralBottleofMtDew t1_jckn3zy wrote

Let's hope the shooters who target schools with dropped ceilings have never seen Die Hard.

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SsurebreC t1_jckpiyq wrote

Replying to tundey_1 (#2,253,686)

I think it's common knowledge what happened to the Native Americans but if not then I'll say it again: land rights mean nothing if you can't militarily defend them and, as a result, almost all countries were founded and certainly expanded on bloodshed and taking land away from others. This includes taking land from the Native Americans (who also warred among each other for the same thing).

However, it doesn't take away from the national parks.

Lastly, if you want to nitpick everything where if one thing somehow invalides everything then you won't find anything positive about anything. You can't even admire jazz - an American-invented form of music - because someone will point out that it developed as a result of slavery.

The US has done plenty of horrible things - and I said that we're far from being the greatest country in the world - but if you want to put the US into context then you really should travel to other countries. I think it's fair to say that we're far better than many other countries.

What can you still enjoy if you nitpick everything about it with a negative slant. You can't even enjoy water, sugar, or sex.

−1

certainlyforgetful t1_jckpku8 wrote

Replying to Chadmartigan (#2,253,235)

I volunteer at the school where my spouse works.

They’re more than willing to drop $10-20k a year on random equipment from a big name corporation for my “club” without so much as even a review by more than one person. We can get the same stuff 2nd hand for about $500, but we’re not allowed to do that.

she’s making <$2k/month and a raise is “in the works” but she won’t see it until spring 2024. It’ll probably be less than 10%.

Approving actual classroom expenses, or raises takes years. But if they’ve got a budget for “student enrichment” the district can just spend the money on whatever the fuck they want as long as a corporation is selling it.

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mindluge t1_jckpu5a wrote

just wait. when shooter situations happen in schools with these the students won't even be able to reach it or the shooter will shoot them like fish in a barrel.

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tundey_1 t1_jcks6pr wrote

Replying to SsurebreC (#2,253,957)

>I think it's common knowledge what happened to the Native Americans

You'll think so but you'll be wrong.

> land rights mean nothing if you can't militarily defend them...almost all countries were founded and certainly expanded on bloodshed and taking land away from others.

Ha...you're one of those. It's OK we raped and killed the inhabitants of the land...we had military power and they didn't. Everybody did it.

>but if you want to put the US into context then you really should travel to other countries.

I was born and raised in another country and I've been to others.

>I think it's fair to say that we're far better than many other countries.

That, as they say in American sports, is loser talk. You don't compare yourself to worse countries, you compare and hold yourself to higher standards.

>Lastly, if you want to nitpick everything where if one thing somehow invalides everything then you won't find anything positive about anything. You can't even admire jazz - an American-invented form of music - because someone will point out that it developed as a result of slavery.

It's not about nitpicking, it's about being honest. You can enjoy jazz even while knowing its racist backstory. That's being an honest adult. You can admit that the United States is a great country with a lot of horrible shit in our history (old history and recent past).

1

Meemeemiaw23 t1_jcks8ty wrote

Not from America. To see this kind of news is just saddening. Are we gonna see a bunker at school in the future? Just ... why guns are really easy to get?

2

mizmoxiev t1_jckts8x wrote

No money for books. No money for teachers salaries! Money for bulletproof safe rooms instead of Common Sense legislation.

Keep It Classy America.

3

Portalrules123 t1_jckux5d wrote

Is that a drop ceiling? I hope the thing is sealed off on top…….

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SsurebreC t1_jckwrzt wrote

Replying to tundey_1 (#2,254,113)

> You'll think so but you'll be wrong.

Do you have any data showing that the average American has NO idea that Native American lands were taken?

> Ha...you're one of those. It's OK we raped and killed the inhabitants of the land...we had military power and they didn't. Everybody did it.

Show me where I said it's OK. I just said that this is what happens. Welcome to reality - it's shitty.

> I was born and raised in another country and I've been to others.

Same here. Maybe you should read some history then and you'll find a mountain of skulls that laid the foundations of almost every single country.

> You don't compare yourself to worse countries, you compare and hold yourself to higher standards.

I agree and I am. I'm tired of the "loser talk" where ignorant people believe that the US is the worst country or even a bad country. Those people need to visit other countries. We're not the greatest but we're not the worst by far.

> It's not about nitpicking, it's about being honest.

Where was I dishonest?

> You can admit that the United States is a great country with a lot of horrible shit in our history (old history and recent past).

That's my entire point. I'm glad we agree. Not sure why there's an argument then.

1

Actual__Wizard t1_jcl0teq wrote

So, they're trying to solve America's school shooting problem by installing prison cells?

...

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Repubs_suck t1_jcl67k4 wrote

Pretty much a government subsidy of gun dealers and manufacturers, by extension.

3

JasonTheRotter t1_jcl8yj7 wrote

Replying to DarthLysergis (#2,252,169)

Ya.. I work in software and I can’t count how many schools buy licenses from us and never use or under utilize. These are contracts in 100k to millions. And this isn’t even talking about univversity levels, even pre colleges are like this. You would think they would hire auditors for this but nah. Administrators are lazy as fuck and are wasting taxpayer money. Don’t get me started on actual government agencies.

We don’t have a budget problem to the extent we think, we have problem with grifters and lazy fucks who won’t utilize funds properly. Everything is bloated to the tits with unnecessary add ons.

6

DarthLysergis t1_jclab1m wrote

Replying to JasonTheRotter (#2,255,057)

(years ago)One of the new "security guards" posted at a school got caught by IT looking at porn on his laptop. His position was at the main entrance. He would scan IDs of visitors an essentially man the door. A parent saw it on the screen as they walked by. I was tasked with "documenting" the computer. That was a wonderful dive into someone's sexual life....on a work machine.

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Sun_Shine_Dan t1_jclf7bx wrote

Imagine the future of never solving the escalating school shooting issue and instead just moving to acceptable causalities among public schools. A lottery for education and childhood trauma.

2

HG21Reaper t1_jclipgw wrote

So you’re going to put everyone in a small room where they can all be caught by the active shooter?

1

demonmariner t1_jcljint wrote

In Alabama, which has just about the most relaxed gun laws in the country, last I heard.

Stupid idea anyway. Puts all the potential victims in a pen for easy pickings. Bullets aren't the only way to kill people.

1

TossedDolly t1_jclm2j8 wrote

Why would pilots be holed up in a classroom?

1

Atralis t1_jclm97d wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#2,252,010)

You are forgetting about the kids growing up and realizing their workplace and homes and public places they frequent don't have the super necessary bulletproof safety sheds.

This idea that we should turn schools into fortresses always ignores the side effect that you are telling children they aren't safe unless there are draconian and in some cases ridiculous security measures in place to prevent or mitigate events that odds are would never have happened at their school in the first place.

These kids are going to be afraid to exist in the real world.

6

TheCrowsSoundNice t1_jcm1wld wrote

Alabama has twice the idiocy of Texas with half the IQ

Source - lived in both and witnessed

3

metametapraxis t1_jcm3d5o wrote

I feel like mental health support and reducing the number of Americans with guns (because mah freeduhms) would be a better use of the funding.

1

vibrance9460 t1_jcmafz3 wrote

The roof isn’t secure.

Get up on a desk, pop a ceiling tile and shoot fish in a barrel

2

Abalone_Admirable t1_jcmcsbl wrote

Americans will really do everything but give up the guns 🤦‍♀️

3

ActualMis t1_jcmct64 wrote

Money for up-to-date textbooks? School lunches? No!

Money for bullet proof panic rooms? Sure thing!

2

habanero_sauce t1_jcmk3r8 wrote

Or, hear me out, let’s have some fucking common sense gun regulations.

0

AGrain t1_jcmnb30 wrote

When you try to fix the problem by not actually fixing the problem.

1

vajeen t1_jcmw2th wrote

Replying to nassy23 (#2,251,717)

Well, the fucking drop ceiling above the "shelter" could easily allow a determined shooter to breach it.

Just slide a desk or two over, pop your head through and unleash hell on the trapped students.

Brilliant.

3