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olearyboy t1_je37180 wrote

That ain’t gonna fix itself with a software update

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Tonyhillzone t1_je37z8t wrote

Steering wheels and now seat belts. Are they made from Lego?

235

pomonamike t1_je3901d wrote

Replying to Fynn_the_Finger (#2,436,048)

Teslas have had quality control issues since day 1, but we all gave them a pass because it was a new car manufacturer and they were doing some neat things with EVs. That was years ago though, they should be judged like any other car now, and they sure are looking like the quality of 1980s-90s GM.

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Mercury82jg t1_je3ajce wrote

Looks like that Bill Gates short selling of TSLA is going to pay off, again!

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aqua_tec t1_je3cod7 wrote

For subscription features and riddled with safety issues - I wouldn’t touch a Tesla with a ten-foot pole.

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Has_hog t1_je3eegs wrote

aren’t they under another investigation currently?

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hpark21 t1_je3fjn8 wrote

Replying to pomonamike (#2,436,396)

I don't know.. So many cars have massive issues all the time and looks like Tesla seem to get more attention.

GM had burning battery issue with their BOLT.

Toyota had wheels falling out issue with their BZ4X (stupid name - assuming Subaru also had the issue but it is same car)

Honda recently had to recall 200k+ cars for the side view mirror falling off issue.

−11

verasev t1_je3l1ew wrote

How do you mess up seat belts? We've had that technology for long ass time at this point.

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avelak t1_je3nays wrote

Replying to Tonyhillzone (#2,436,191)

This has always been the issue with Tesla... Their quality control standards are nowhere near the standards of established players in the industry. Sure, there are plenty of great Teslas out there, but there are a fuckton more lemons proportionally that roll off the assembly line than most other manufacturers.

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Outlulz t1_je3pr5n wrote

Replying to pomonamike (#2,436,396)

And these are still the same models they’ve been selling for years and they STILL can’t get it right. Eventually they’re going to have to do what every other manufacturer does much more often and release a refreshed body and interior design and start this thing again from square one.

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avelak t1_je3qe39 wrote

Replying to Novel-Jackfruit-369 (#2,439,189)

They typically rank near the very bottom in major build quality and reliability surveys (consumer reports, JD Power), but you can keep being a fanboy if you'd like. To their credit, they have moved up a few spots from dead last in the last couple of years!

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds

https://www.thestreet.com/automotive/most-least-reliable-cars-and-car-brands-according-to-consumer-reports#gid=ci02b0e590400025f0&pid=9-wrangler-jeep-wrangler-jeep

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redander t1_je3s38v wrote

Ohh, so what is next the dashboard.... or the axle? Imagine paying all this money for a computer and not thinking about the fact that it's supposed to be a car. Or buying a car and not realizing all you bought is a giant crappy put together computer.

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Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je3u4ci wrote

Replying to feral_brick (#2,439,425)

Took me 5 seconds to Google those links objectively showing that all established players suffer from what is being complained about, seat belts, stearing wheels, lemons. That's not whataboutism lol that's directly related.

And you link to a JD ranking based on things like infotainment function, to which they can't rank Tesla because it doesn't meet criteria for the survey.

−69

Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je3ujg6 wrote

Replying to avelak (#2,439,391)

Surveys like these are another story, they are inherently subjective. For ex JD power includes things like infotainment tech. Yet, they still fall within the ranks of the established players in the industry. Same with the number of lemons.

It's an objective fact that established players have these same issues, so it's easy to spot an inaccurate characterization as extreme as 'no where near' and 'fuck ton'. Which looks more like you're a tesla hate boy, as I'm not saying they are better than anyone. If I was ide pull something irrelevant out like they still have a higher profit margin so they aren't having a problem selling these cars with poor surveys and quality issues.

−140

feral_brick t1_je3v82c wrote

Replying to Novel-Jackfruit-369 (#2,439,978)

aLl tHe EsTaBLisHeD pLAyeRs dO iT

If you're too stupid to understand that the only meaningful (I won't use the word objective because you clearly don't understand it) way to compare reliability is to compare rates, rather than "x company had issues with component y" or that finding examples of similar failure modes without numbers on frequency is textbook whataboutism, engaging with you isn't worth it because you won't learn and trying to explain it in ways you would understand would only make me sink to your level

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Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je3vsrk wrote

Replying to feral_brick (#2,440,138)

>would only make me sink to your level

What level am I at? And you engaged me. I gave a reasonable explanation of the comments i was refuting.

While you responded with childish insults:

>Are you going for "idiotic Internet argument bingo?"

>must be a new record.

>aLl tHe EsTaBLisHeD pLAyeRs dO iT

And I'm using the OC own words to show its not whataboutism, it's related.

>meaningful (I won't use the word objective because you clearly don't understand it)

You won't say objective, and continue the childish insults, becuase surveys are inherently subjective! But even still, the counter argument is: being ranked in the bottom third does not support claiming "nowhere near the standards of the established.."

>similar failure modes without numbers on frequency

If you want to make it a chore, we could analyze the rates, but a good comparison would also need nuance such as, if it's a manufacturing issue then adjust for how many are made at that manufacturing site, or manufacturing line type

−18

laz21 t1_je433ra wrote

Feature so you can reach steering wheel when it falls on the floor or out the window

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feral_brick t1_je46t7n wrote

Replying to Novel-Jackfruit-369 (#2,440,222)

Your level is either trolling or blindingly delusional.

I responded with childish insults because frankly you have not shown either the intelligence or emotional maturity to respond to anything else.

The rest of your comment proves my point that you either willfully ignore facts or don't understand why you're wrong and are incapable of learning. So I hope you have a nice life, but I'm not here to teach you the things your middle school teachers failed to teach you, so this conversation is over.

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asdaaaaaaaa t1_je4bght wrote

Replying to Tonyhillzone (#2,436,191)

The materials themselves aren't poor quality, and I'd imagine the engineering (on paper) would work. The major issue is quality control. Doesn't matter if your seat belt can stop an elephant, if the dude building the thing doesn't follow the right steps or get it to the correct tolerances, it's not going to work anyway.

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asdaaaaaaaa t1_je4bo0x wrote

Replying to pomonamike (#2,436,396)

That's the thing, had they actually addressed or fixed the quality control issues, I wouldn't have minded so much. Still wouldn't be buying one, but I'd respect that they at least solved the problem. I just don't think they can sell Teslas at a competitive price without cheaping out on something, and I'd imagine some of that is labor/quality control.

They're still an incredibly new player to the market, so would make sense that anything they try to do would be as expensive, if not more than their competitors who can scale a lot better and have longer relationships with other businesses. Letting build quality go to shit isn't the correct way to keep prices competitive IMO, especially with a 2-ton moving vehicle.

0

Sw1ggety t1_je4bxau wrote

Replying to avelak (#2,438,954)

I can believe that. Had a model S plaid come in to my shop to swap some all season tires on before winter. He had about 300 miles on it. Before we started he was concerned about a ride height error he was getting sometimes. We lifted it and found the ride height sensor on the driver front wasn’t even secured. Had lock tight on the bolt, but no nut had ever been attached. The bad thing was, once we lifted it and lowered it, it dropped to the ground because it couldn’t figure out what it’s ride height was. I advised him to take it in its current condition back to Tesla. If I would have secured it, they would have had a way to say they didn’t find anything. I was majorly concerned about fit and finish before that, but now I’m concerned about safety items as well.

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Sxuld t1_je4ead1 wrote

You just sell the idea of a product and all the idiots flock to it, then you fix it up to the best of your abilities. Just capitalism working as intended with clever businesses and not so clever customers

−1

ParanoidFactoid t1_je4iyh0 wrote

Build quality of Tesla cars is just horrible. There's a good reason why Consumer Reports rates the car's reliability as poor.

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mheffe t1_je4msdm wrote

Replying to hpark21 (#2,437,661)

All 3 of the brands you're comparing Telsa to are technically above industry standards in terms of reliability across all their models.

Tesla is below average, 5th lowest.

As you pointed out, all manufacturers have issues, that's why they (J.D. power) rank the manufacturers based on how many issues they have per 100 cars made.

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DeepSpaceNebulae t1_je4qe3m wrote

Replying to Mercury82jg (#2,436,719)

If you have the money to hold shorts, it’ll pay off eventually. Tesla is comically overvalued

They are highest valued auto manufacturer in the world, yet produce faar less cars than the next top 10 manufacturers.

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BarCompetitive7220 t1_je4sgtv wrote

Quality is for suckers - says CEO of company...we are here to make a profit and here in Texas no one monitors our work.

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EZsqueezylemonpeezy t1_je4y316 wrote

I've never seen so many investigations into a single car company. How can you have so many problems with basic parts of a car? I'd rather get from point A to B with an intact seatbelt and steering wheel than have the car drive itself.

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0b0011 t1_je4y7o7 wrote

Replying to Novel-Jackfruit-369 (#2,439,978)

It's complete whataboutism.

X happens more often with this company than these other companies.

What about when X happens to them? Here's links.

Not only was it whataboitism but you didn't even address what he was saying. He wasn't saying other manufacturers never have issues he was saying tesla has them more often.

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honeybooboobro t1_je4z2or wrote

I'd like a side by side in depth comparison between the Made in Germany and other models.

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snoberto77 t1_je4z75j wrote

Cost of tesla: 60k+

Value of craftmanship: 12

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m3t4ldood t1_je4zt1n wrote

Can you imagine using voice assist to tell the Tesla where to go people in the back are "like left turn" on a bridge.

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Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je50dhw wrote

Replying to 0b0011 (#2,446,830)

>he was saying tesla has them more often

Which is why I showed it doesn't happen to tesla more often, how can I make that analysis without discussing it happening to every other manufacfurer, nor does it amount to a fuck ton more lemons.

You guys are struggling with whataboutism.

−5

Medium-Complaint-677 t1_je54tir wrote

I love how Tesla's build quality has been bottom of the business for over a decade but it took Musk buying twitter and being an edgelord for anyone to start actually paying attention.

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Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je55u8j wrote

Replying to CodingLazily (#2,447,856)

Well for one, at least a quick Google search is a step above the OC that just made claims with zero data to back it up. And I don't agree that's it anecdote, but that's my opinion.

How about this?. It shows conflict with how survey reports can used to back up claims.

But keep in mind, I'm not trying to write a dissertation to refute the original claims.

0

okwellactually t1_je569va wrote

Replying to aqua_tec (#2,437,113)

Was t-boned in my Tesla by a guy going 30mph. The force was so strong it knocked us into a utility pole which we took out.

My son and I walked away with no injuries.

I won't drive anything else.

Edit: I should add the other driver stupidly tried to claim he didn't run the stop sign. The 8 cameras on the car recorded everything, before, during and after the accident.

−12

Dundun1962 t1_je56qyq wrote

Budget car build at executive car price.

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Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je57mth wrote

Replying to 0b0011 (#2,447,984)

To be more specific, the claim is that relative to seat belt, steering wheel, and lemons, tesla is nowhere near the standards of established players and a fuckton more lemons; so to show that the other players also have large recalls of the same type does show that they are near their standards, as well as amount of lemons being in the middle of the other players, a direct show of it not happening more often.

Which is also, very much not whataboutism.

−1

avelak t1_je5eyov wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#2,449,937)

Lol name calling? I guess I've found another person who loves Tesla.

Also, there's a difference between "everyone has recalls" (which is true and expected) and "everyone is at the same level of build quality as Tesla" (which is not true).

Tesla is consistently rated near the bottom of all major automotive manufacturers for build quality. For what it's worth, there are several other brands I probably wouldn't ever consider buying either due to the same reliability/consistency issues (like Ford).

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TbonerT t1_je5fgap wrote

Replying to avelak (#2,450,287)

Yeah, name calling. The first thing you did was declare them a fanboy for pointing out that the other major manufacturers have the same problems. This isn’t about Tesla. Stop being an asshole.

−17

nsci2ece t1_je5fj4o wrote

Replying to BarCompetitive7220 (#2,445,630)

Ironically their Shanghai-built cars have been lauded for far superior fit and finish compared to the US built cars. Probably helps that the Chinese EV market is a lot more competitive especially when it comes to the availability and reliability of non-Supercharger DC networks, which means Tesla doesn't have the same competitive advantage to coast on like they do in North America.

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avelak t1_je5fscy wrote

Replying to TbonerT (#2,450,387)

The very first thing I did was reiterate the point that Tesla is near the bottom of quality rankings, like I originally stated, and then followed up by indicating that the person I was responding to was likely blinded by fandom.

It's really not being an asshole

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TbonerT t1_je5hzer wrote

Replying to avelak (#2,450,439)

We can all see that you couldn’t get through a single sentence before calling someone with information you didn’t like a “fanboy” and you continue to attack them. That’s what assholes do.

−12

avelak t1_je5imea wrote

Replying to TbonerT (#2,450,869)

When did I continue to attack them? All I did was provide support for my initial assertions...

If anything, you're being far more aggressive than I was when I called him a "fanboy". In fact, you've completely departed from the initial discussion and brought nothing to the table about the original points made. Maybe you should take a long look in the mirror before you just start calling random people who don't like your favorite car company assholes.

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okwellactually t1_je5kiqf wrote

Replying to Tamadrummer88 (#2,451,001)

Indeed their cars are safe, but they don't have a compelling EV (I'll never drive an ICE car again), certainly not comparable in terms of software and charging network.

And their cars can't get safer via software updates as Teslas can and do. Since I've had mine in less than two years, software updates have improved seat belt tensioning and air bag deployment. All based off of crash data from the fleet.

−5

kindrudekid t1_je5nx1s wrote

Replying to adreamofhodor (#2,450,667)

No they still offer the 2FA service.

Previously they offered it via SMS, TOTP based Authenticator Apps (Google Authenticator, Duo Security, Authy etc) and Security Keys (Yubikey)

SMS based 2FA is weak and been vulnerable for almost a decade now. NIST sent out an official notice back in 2016. Google and Apple phased it out completely too.

So Twitter just disabled the shitter, weaker, more vulnerable SMS based 2FA is not available. Not only is it bad from a InfoSec perspective, it is also a line item in capital expenses from a business perspective.

I do agree that the phrasing from twitter was shitty and instead of asking users to fork over money, they could have guided them to the alternatives.

−1

vajeen t1_je5r11c wrote

Replying to avelak (#2,450,287)

Some things just aren't worth arguing about. Shitty Teslas is probably one of them.

But, hey, if y'all are enjoying the pissing contest, go for it. 🍿

4

docmedic t1_je62cq9 wrote

Replying to SG_wormsblink (#2,445,829)

The only thing separating you from the ground flying out the windshield are your tires seatbelts. Purchase a a full set of tires seatbelt subscription warrantied good for 36,000 miles or 3 years, whichever comes first, for the low low price of $900!

2

aqua_tec t1_je63a6b wrote

Replying to okwellactually (#2,451,332)

Yeah. I would not be surprised if they started to charge for those updates. Or that footage of your crash. Speculative I know but nothing Elon does instills confidence in me with respect to new technology. No thanks.

4

sakipooh t1_je6ax93 wrote

Ever since someone mentioned panel gaps it's all I see when I come across a Tesla. They really are just slapped together with zero quality control. And that's just something we can see I can't image the internal quality of the build.

4

IgDailystapler t1_je6byzg wrote

Replying to Snooty_Cutie (#2,436,467)

Was I just bad at gluing, or did those things legitimately never fucking work? I literally refused to use glue in elementary school because Elmer’s purple glue sticks always failed me (I still swear by tape).

3

crumbertwadswallow t1_je6iuzp wrote

I dislike tesla, tesla cars, and tesla owners on principle alone. Douchemobile.

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nyrol t1_je6put9 wrote

Replying to EZsqueezylemonpeezy (#2,446,804)

99% of the investigations end in no fault found with Tesla, or that it was only 2 cars out of millions like the steering wheel issue. Tesla also self reports issues due to the telemetry they collect on their entire fleet that no other manufacturer does.

2

nsci2ece t1_je74h3p wrote

Replying to Squidimus (#2,443,670)

Worse. I own a 2019 Model 3 and hope to replace it this year with a non-Tesla EV.

Their software updates often have infuriating UX changes that Elon tries to justify by saying shit like "all input is error" only to backpedal amid growing dissatisfaction. And they trumpet the most worthless shit with so much fanfare like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

E.g. in Dec 2021 the V11 update came with the asinine decision to remove quick-toggles for the defroster and heated seats, requiring one extra menu layer to be brought up first. Took a few more months before the toggles were added back but who the fuck signed off on their removal in the first place?

Meanwhile the LTE modem can take 5-10 minutes to reconnect after leaving a dead zone like an underground garage (which cripples the GPS functionality), while all my phones reconnect in milliseconds. Still no fix for that. I literally have to turn on my phone hotspot every time I get in the car to ensure the nav will work properly.

The auto wipers are also the worst in the entire industry - still no fix to at least let me toggle a default minimum speed.

But hey, I now have Disney Plus and stupid touchscreen games in the infotainment system and the car can perform light shows on demand! OMG! Greatest car ever made!

7

nsci2ece t1_je7532u wrote

Replying to avelak (#2,438,954)

I own a 2019 Model 3. Love EVs, will never go back to ICE, but holy fuck Tesla is absolute garbage in build quality.

I don't expect Rolls Royce fit and finish but when spending $50k+ I think it's perfectly reasonable to at least have something comparable to a Toyota Corolla.

Kia EV6 is on order with a long-ass wait. In the meantime I'm still driving this overpriced POS which rattles loudly from the back seat even on freshly repaved roads.

7

nsci2ece t1_je75r82 wrote

Replying to honeybooboobro (#2,447,009)

The made-in-China cars were already lauded for superior fit and finish compared to Fremont-built cars.

It's not that surprising as Chinese workers have proven that if you give them the right blueprint and pay them enough, they are more than capable of building high quality products. Made-in-China is no longer the guarantee of low quality it used to be, especially as Chinese factories become increasingly automated.

2

Reasonable_Ticket_84 t1_je9n59q wrote

Replying to asdaaaaaaaa (#2,442,586)

It's not even that, Musk's and Tesla's obsession to push shipping goals to post stock pumping quarterly numbers doesn't happen by wishful thoughts. It happens by pressuring workers in the factories to "go faster". While ignoring that means "start cutting corners".

Hey, it lets the executives have plausible deniability if there's a lawsuit over it.

Basically, you want to reject your Tesla delivery if it was made the last 2 weeks of a quarter.

3

asdaaaaaaaa t1_je9nch7 wrote

Replying to Reasonable_Ticket_84 (#2,482,115)

That's exactly what I said though. While the idea/blueprint/engineering of the car is alright, the actual quality of work/building going into them suffers immensely. Doesn't matter if I plan or engineer a bridge that can support multiple Godzillas at once, if it's not built right it won't meet specifications/requirements.

1