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[deleted] t1_j28u3ur wrote

Reply to comment by HanaBothWays in California deputy killed by driver, suspect dies in shootout by cloud_coder

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IamLars t1_j298r15 wrote

Excessive bail is unconstitutional via the 8th amendment so a judge could not set bail for a homeless person at 5,000,000,000 because they wanted to.

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[deleted] t1_j29ddu0 wrote

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mohammedibnakar t1_j29ooou wrote

It's literally 15 words long.

"Excessive bail shall not be required, not excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"

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[deleted] t1_j29sknp wrote

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IamLars t1_j29xnrq wrote

>The word excessive is open to interpretation

It's been litigated out, lol. You really just can't admit that you have no clue what you are talking about.

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HanaBothWays t1_j2b1iae wrote

The 8th Amendment is a dead letter ever since SCOTUS decided that a punishment has to be both cruel and unusual for it to be prohibited under the 8th - although I guess a billion-dollar fine would qualify.

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IamLars t1_j2b49ba wrote

Bail is addressed in the amendment outside of cruel and unusual punishment.

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HanaBothWays t1_j2b86bn wrote

Ah okay.

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IamLars t1_j2bkxax wrote

Also, bail is not a fine. You get the money back if you don't turn into a fugitive.

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HanaBothWays t1_j2bmqz2 wrote

Well, if you can’t afford it in the first place and are stuck in jail for a crime you didn’t commit or are forced to plead to a more serious crime than what you actually did, simply because you can’t afford the bail, that is really not good.

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HanaBothWays t1_j28wfds wrote

No, bail is not fine, bail just means there are crimes that people with money can afford, and maybe (as in Wisconsin) you can buy your way out of pre-trial detention for a violent crime where the rate of recidivism is high (domestic violence).

It has absolutely nothing to do with “progressivism” or “woke mobs” or whatever. Illinois has progressive bail reform and you know what? That guy who plowed into the parade in Waukesha would never have gotten out on bail for DV in IL like he did in Wisconsin and then plowed into a parade, because DV makes you ineligible for bail or pre trial release under IL’s bail reform law.

People need to stop running their mouths about “progressivism” and “wokeness” and whatnot causing these things when it’s just the whole absurdity of “a judge can let you buy your way out of pretrial detention regardless of other considerations, if you can afford it.”

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Dutchmaster617 t1_j29np3m wrote

You are replying to a racist troll but it is possible for an innocent person to be charged with DV.

They shouldn’t have their lives ruined in jail for the minimum 8-12 months it will take to have the court dismiss the charges.

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HanaBothWays t1_j29ouym wrote

One of the reasons it takes so long to get things to trial and resolve charges is that there is no incentive for a speedy trial. We can keep people who can’t afford bail locked up and pressure them to plead out. Upwards of 95% of cases are resolved with a plea, and it’s not because the state has evidence but because it’s someone’s only way out of jail.

Without bail, and the pressure tactic of using pre-trial detention on people who can’t afford it, the whole incentive system changes: suddenly there are reasons for the police, prosecutors, etc. to want speedy trials.

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[deleted] t1_j2929ld wrote

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HanaBothWays t1_j295on5 wrote

> Also he domestic violence argument doesn’t apply here, because after he got out he didn’t murder his girlfriend/children. He murdered random strangers.

This is not the argument you think it is.

People who commit crimes of domestic violence have a much greater propensity to commit acts of violence on strangers, including mass violence. If a man beats his wife and kids, they are not the only people at risk from him. Everyone around him is at risk too.

(Also it’s not okay if the wifebeater only harms his wife while he’s out on pre trial release, which statistically he is quite likely to do.)

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[deleted] t1_j29ay5l wrote

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HanaBothWays t1_j29bf65 wrote

I believe people with DV convictions should not be allowed to have guns and I already made clear that I think cash bail should be eliminated entirely and pretrial detention should be based solely on whether someone is judged to be dangerous/a flight risk.

“Bail decisions should not be racially biased” is meaningless to me. Bail should end.

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[deleted] t1_j29fxiy wrote

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HanaBothWays t1_j29guj4 wrote

> I have known far to many people who’s people were victims of the holocaust. And political landscapes can change for the worse quickly.

The Third Reich had very robust gun rights.

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[deleted] t1_j29u94l wrote

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HanaBothWays t1_j29v08r wrote

The people doing Kristallnacht and a lot of the genocidal violence under the Nazi regime, not to mention turning their neighbors over to the Nazis, were civilian “maniacal mob” people. All the industrialized death camp stuff we generally associate with the Holocaust came after years of homegrown racial terror.

Before you invoke the Holocaust and the Third Reich (especially at a Jew with an education) read at least one book.

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[deleted] t1_j2aalpe wrote

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HanaBothWays t1_j2aku8p wrote

> Ugg. When I said the gun thing is something else entirely, I really didn’t want to sucked down that argument. And I fell for it. I wish I had just ignored your gun link.

> Don’t talk down to people on the internet with a claim to authority. This is reddit. People have lived different experiences, and reach different views on topics. Try to be respectful.

This is all rather in poor taste after you bought up a genocide of Jews to a living Jew as a political football to make an argument for why domestic abusers, who are statistically more likely than the general population to murder both people they know an people they don’t know, ought to be allowed to keep their guns.

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HoytG t1_j29zxet wrote

Wow this is easily the most shit take I’ve read this week. And that’s saying something.

Imagine how far your head has to be up your ass to say the police have gone easier on minorities for crimes. Damn that is rich. I hope this is just an elaborate troll.

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