They all gonna die from lung disease breathing the toxic dust from the dried out Salt Lake, but the golf courses sure will look nice.

[deleted]

As long as they can continue to marry the daughter wives, they are happy.

all a man needs in life is a lush green golf course and 6 13-year-old brides

>Rep. Thomas Peterson, R-Brigham City, said at an earlier committee hearing. “These are substantive investments; communities make it. Golf is a significant driving force in our community. It seems like we are publicly shaming them.”

Really, what could possibly shame them about it?

Funny thing, in Japan they have ways of banning criminals from playing golf.

I get the feeling if we started using a similar practice as punishment against corporations when they break the law, lobbying like this would quickly dry up. Like a golf course whose members barely break a six figure income.

“Welcome to Utah, the Ohio of the west!”

>...more information...might lead to "uninformed conclusions"

This ranks up there with the GOP's "alternate facts" logic. Republicans are adverse to knowledge, which is one of the primary traits of willful ignorance.

There is a great Revisionist History on golf courses.

Conservative philosophy in a nutshell: We don't want people to learn because the truth is bad.

It's Unironically gotten a lot harder to breathe....

Uninformed? Their arrogance know no bounds.

War is peace, freedom is slavery

MORE information will lead to UNINFORMED conclusions?

(Kaboom!)

I'm sorry, that was the sound of the Bullshit-o-Meter exploding.

ED is masculinity.

Mini golf is more fun anyway

Welcome to Utah. We sold all the water and the water that we didn't is used to farm alfalfa.

Yeah, though the shitty fact is that any water saved upstream is just gonna get used by CA to grow more almonds and other high water intensity cash crops

Have you considered moving out of a desert? I know it’s not as easy as I put it

Don't forget the golf courses.

Thoughts and prayers

So what's the plan when they don't have enough water to bathe or flush toilets? Send community members complimentary bottles of Febreze and a bucket?

What am I saying. They'll offer Nestle a tax discount to move in so they can supply all the necessary water so they can get campaign donations from Nestle and keep on golfing.

💀

Steel man's argument: Golf course uses 5,000,000 gallons of water a year.

That sounds like a lot, but how does it relate to the average home? Do they use less or more water per acre than an average home?

War is Peace

Freedom is Slavery

Ignorance is Strength

Not 13x6?

Republicans need facts to line up with the stupid shit they believe.

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Utah is getting increasingly stupid

Still haven’t accepted they live in the desert.

Ah yes, more information leads to uninformed decisions

​

makes perfect sense

Don't worry. Utah is praying for God to fix their water problem, so why not build a few more water-hungry golf courses.

6 of one, half dozen the other - republicans probably

Why care about facts when a sky god will save you

An important consideration is the type/quality of water used.

Drinking water vs mon-potable ditch water are not the same thing.

Using a ton of water for a golf course vs letting most that water flow through drainage ditches and evaporate or collect in retention ponds that breed mosquitoes is a nuance that would be hard to properly convey to the generally uneducated public.

Correction. They want facts to line up with stupid shit they want constituents to believe

All the time. But being disabled with no job and needing psych meds makes that difficult.

I've appraised many golf courses and country clubs as going concerns and exactly zero had a greater value than the land as vacant. Not saying there aren't any, but I've never come across one. Partly because they take up a lot of acreage, partly because they cost a lot to operate and maintain.

Forty years ago, Texas was in a huge drought and there were water restrictions everywhere. However, the base golf course got watered every day.

If only there was public health option and viable social safety nets

Can't eat a putting green.

So what happened is the drought over now?

Lmao I feel like this is dumb because if we can can calculate the total water consumption and account for most of the water use with the exception of one industry. Then what your left with is how much that one industry consumes.

Almonds like the food almonds?

Lmao Mormons

That would be REALLY nice. Would be able to have some sort of...dunno, FREEDOM?

Start with the conclusion and work your way back to whatever made up problem you say caused it. Just like the scientific method. /s

In utah there is runoff from the mountains that is collected in reservoirs. That water is used pumped through the irrigation system to most places including golf courses, farms, and houses for lawns.

This system is separate from what they call "culinary water" which is used for everything inside the house. Comparing golf course's water usage to the similar acreage of a residential zone won't be exact, but here's some comparisons. In utah parks, schools, golf courses, and businesses don't really have restrictions on water usage. The irrigation system isn't metered for anyone, but residents are only allowed to use it on certain days on threat of fine if they're caught. Acre per acre houses will use less irrigation water due to there being less grass as houses, roads, driveways, sidewalks, etc will cover most of that area. In addition to that new builds in Utah right now (even the expensive houses) have TINY lawns. These massive houses are on lots measured by sqft not acre.

Conversely culinary water usage would skyrocket. The sources for the culinary water is different that that of the irrigation water. It's from wells and then treated.

However the complaints in Utah right now are due to the departments that handle the irrigation water asking residents more and more often to cut back usage, but residents see it being wasted spraying sidewalks by businesses, keeping golf courses hyper green when they don't go golfing, nor anybody they know golfs. And their tiny lawn and garden barely getting enough to stay greenish in the shade.

Averse

> “I’m concerned we are putting information out there. I can see how that could be used as a club to those who are uninformed on this issue,” said Rep. Keven Stratton, R-Orem. “I don’t see a need to publicize it. If we’re going to be transparent, let’s be transparent with the information to those who can use it properly.”

> In other words, the general public might draw wrong conclusions from the data golf courses would have been required to post under the original version of the bill, which Welton introduced in hopes of encouraging greater efficiency.

Sure it can. I would pay good money if the initial results of ivermectin on covid weren't publicly released.

Hey, also STOP the giant manicured lawns!!!! Shot. People that have Tom hose for STATUS SYMBOLS have no idea the plight of the farmer for water for OUR FOOD. Idiots Stop the nonsense.

"But some lawmakers suspected the real point of water-use disclosure was to target the golf industry for criticism, arguing it gave a pass to other big users of outdoor water — cemeteries, schools, churches, parks, ball fields and ski areas."

Those darn children and their darn schools using up valuable golf course water.

Not like cemeteries, schools, churches, parks, ball fields, and ski areas are open to the public... Unlike some golf courses.

Why even rely on a sky god when you can be long gone with the money by the time the results of your decisions start to become obvious?

California produces 80% of the world's almond produce, according to the wiki. It'a HUGE business.

I'm just being an ass because he compared golf to almonds... Almonds that can be eaten.

Yeah, sorry, I'm not in the state of catching on that right now. Cheers!

They have no plan at all.

Why are we wasting water on stupid children anyway?

As Sam Kinison once said, “YOU LIVE IN A FUCKING DESERT!!!!! AGGGH!!!!”

I mean... It's often a valid concern. Just look at anti-vaxxers with VAERS information, or people complaining about yoga mat chemicals. You can make unremarkable things look alarming pretty easily.

That said... I don't trust the state of Utah.

"If you stop testing for COVID, COVID cases will go down" logic lmao.

Hey, that's not fair. The governors plan is simple.

PRAY FOR RAIN

Yeah, the mayor in the city I live in just lost a million dollar fraud case and the library is censoring the books they have out. They aren't exactly swimming in moral correctness like they want you to believe...

It’s home, and before McMansions started popping up in the wetlands and our water was sold oversees, living here was sustainable. The legislators are governing as if God himself is going to save us from the tipping point then they distract us with culture wars over church/state. We do drive too much though that’s on us

What city if you don't mind me asking?

Sounds about par for the course. Ever since 2020 and COVID republicans have turned on turbo stupid. The Dems currently appear to just be regular stupid

Edit: people downvoting me after seeing a headline about how republicans are pushing ignorance as a policy

"God will provide."

They are delusional.

Yep our golf course turned into the suburbs because it was worth way way more that way

Oh, I always thought more information was a way to get a more informed conclusion. Boy do I feel silly.

Thanks, that was interesting. So untreated water vs treated water. Is the irrigation system canals or piped?

Its not like every other developed nation has these things and shows a perfectly available example of how well it works. Wouldn't that be nice. If that were the case, there really wouldn't be any excuse to keep fucking over every US citizen.

As someone who grew up in Ohio then lived in Utah for 3 years as an adult; Ohio is no where close to the crazy that is Utah.

Brigham city is a shit filled hellhole

Let’s be fair; if there are no golf courses, how would the millions of overweight and out of shape golfers pretend they’re physically active and participating in a real sport instead of the reality they they’re simply driving around on a huge outdoor tablecloth?

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Knowing nothing about Utah lawmakers, I’m gonna guess, mostly republican.

Who cares about personal hygiene when you can spend all day golfing!

Freedom to actually live is a privilege of the rich the freedoms you get and won’t get infringed is the freedom to be allowed to harm others with hateful words. Freedoms like being protected from hate infringe on the freedom of others to hate so that freedom only exists if you are a group Acceptable to white Christian’s

In short this is capitalist freedom where what level of freedom you have if reflective on how much monitory power you have and has nothing to do with the idea of having foolish notions of human rights.. seriously fuck capitalism and fuck this country

Capitalism is the problem

It’s a state ran by fucking religious nut jobs how the fuck is this surprising

yeah, it’s almost like they know that they can't hide that they’re wasting water just to keep mass fields of green grass that serve no purpose except to keep the rich happy

We live in a nanny state.

Water returned. But Texas will face the same issues eventually, especially when underground reservoirs that so many unknowingly rely on deplete.

Utahns didn't pay enough tithing last year. They'll get more seagulls when they do.

Our governor did go on TV and implore the people of the state to pay pray for rain. That is the most proactive measure taken by our state leadership so far.

EDIT: Ducking autocorrect!!!!!! <Shakes fist>

(soon)
"And the motion has passed unanimously, requiring all Utah residents to walk to the next state over and back to collect a bucket of water to pour on the golf course."

Who should the check be written to? And for how much. I'm assuming Nestle and $100k should cover me for a year.

Politicians never like to do an ounce of prevention. They'd much prefer to wait until it's tons of cure.

You're thinking of the Colorado river. The Great Basin (where the overwhelming majority of the state population lives) doesn't empty into the ocean. Any water saved flows into the Great Salt Lake and then evaporates. Problem is we need some water there to hold down the toxic dust so we can more easily breathe the toxic car exhaust that gets trapped in the valley.

Sorry, pray. I fixed it now.

Don't forget it's also an indicator for fascism.

I hate to tell you, but last year I had a run-in with the religious conservative hopeful representative from my area.

He legit told me that climate change does not matter because the second coming of Christ will save us. The Chinese or Russian governments don't matter because God is coming.

He told me to repent and asked if I was a dutiful Christian wife. I told him I'm atheist and I have a responsibility to vote for the most intelligent candidate, but I wish him luck.

Can they even play golf?

Like a floor mat with a bunch of conclusions you could….jump to?

If you want to see how corrupt your local government is go and see how consistently green the golf courses are

Wait, I thought arsenic powder usually causes death by fluid loss. I don’t think they’ll live long enough to develop lung disease.

Golf is a massive waste, but if you want someone to blame, it's farming, not the people actually residing in the southwest.

Like maybe you don't need to spend gallons of water growing a nut so you can process it down and add more water to it and drink it. Maybe you could just drink water instead. Crazy, I know.

Here in the UK some people swear by golf courses for magic mushroom picking. So there's that.

How many Utah "lawmakers" are also golf club members?

Mustn't let the peasants learn how much of their water we use, less they threaten the landed gentry.

No, pay is correct. Tithe your church so the pastor has a big enough mansion/yacht/private jet to catch god's attention and let him know the people need rain. God is a massive gold digger and only gets with the richest congregation.

r/nongolfers

Living there was never sustainable, you're kidding yourself. Even before the mega drought the west was using it's water faster than it's naturally replenished, and then there's climate change...

Obligatory “fuck texas”

Sounds exactly like Salt Lake City, UT, talking there

Yep, it's pee

The reason this law is applied to golf courses is that maintaining a lawn in the fucking desert wastes a fuckton of water.

Quack

That is kind of the issue with belief in the idea that there is a almighty being with a plan. If you believe that there is an all knowing all seeing entity who basically got everything planned out then you will always end up assuming that everything will turn out fine. Had an argument with someone in conspiracy sub where they believed that it doesn't matter what they do on earth and no matter how much they hurt god's creation they will end up in heaven because they believe in Jesus

That is kind of the issue with belief in the idea that there is a almighty being with a plan. If you believe that there is an all knowing all seeing entity who basically got everything planned out then you will always end up assuming that everything will turn out fine. Had an argument with someone in conspiracy sub where they believed that it doesn't matter what they do on earth and no matter how much they hurt god's creation they will end up in heaven because they believe in Jesus

I said that when I collected my discharge papers and headed for the state line.

Saying "Ducking" encourages autocorrect to "duck" with you, it tells it you miss it. Why don't you give that a break for a few weeks and see if the situation improves.

If it’s like CA, it’s “functional” and not “ornamental” turf and is excepted from the restrictions that everyday household lawns are…

Also from Ohio; they're sure trying, though.

There’s no reason to grow alfalfa in a desert and yet we do

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The word you want is monetary bro.

If we had monitory power over the rich they would have been dead years ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46654042#:~:text=However%2C%20it's%20worth%20noting%20that,typical%20glass%20of%20dairy%20milk.

Dairy milk is worst in all criteria

I'm moving out of this shithole this year. It's a good feeling

Texas: “I used to drought. I still do, but I used to too.”

> arguing it gave a pass to other big users of outdoor water — cemeteries, schools, churches, parks, ball fields and ski areas."

I agree, lets also restrict water usage for any for-profit usage of land.

IE:

'National Security Interests'

'Right-to-Work'

'Parental-School-Choice'

Everytime I think "wow, that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard"..... something comes along to prove how naive I was 2 hours ago.

Orem

I didn't know America had a 51st state?

Fuck golf. Fuck golfers. Fuck golf courses. Stop destroying the environment so you and your boys can day drink, drive go-carts, and knock tiny balls into tiny holes.

>The legislators are governing as if God himself is going to save us from the tipping point then they distract us with culture wars over church/state.

Honestly, a lot of extreme religious conservatives literally do think like that. They legitimately believe that the rapture is just around the corner, so there's no point in planning too far into the future. No need to make laws regarding renewable energy, climate change, or any other looming issues because Jesus is going to come back and take them up to heaven within in the next few years. It's pretty crazy.

You can't handle the truth!

It is piped. At every house there is a shutoff box with a sediment filter. You're supposed to clean the filter annually, they announce when you can begin using it for the year and when they shut it off for winter so you can close the valve and not pop sprinkler heads while they pressurize the system in the spring. Another way they cut back usage is pressurizing the system later and later in the year.

I've seen people water on the wrong days all the time. I've also seen people use hoses from their houses to water on their off days. Which is kind of counterproductive as that water is the metered treated water, and the whole purpose of the irrigation system is to not use that for watering your lawn.

Oh and I forgot to mention that the golf courses aren't even profitable. They're subsidised by taxes to stay afloat because of corrupt city councils and idiots like those quoted in the article.

It's not even capitalism. It's badly implemented capitalism. It's perfectly possible to have a fundamentally capitalistic society with solid social services, just not the way the States are currently doing it.

Even worse, mormon republicans.

Want the true answer? FOLLW THE MONEY TRAIL.

🤣🤣 no, the average home doesn't use half a million gallons of water a year. No one could afford their water bill if that was the case

Nice to see someone is at least trying to close the loopholes these assholes use.

Colorado should start curbing all water releases by the amount of the golf courses.

True the problem is a lack of regulation in American capitalism and a excess of allowing corporate personhood that allows corporations do directly donate to politicians. The existence of lobbying itself is probably the biggest problem as it allows wealth to matter more than any group Of constituents and as a result politicians are so easily bought no matter What party they are a member of.

The fact is capitalism itself isn’t the issue it’s a lack of meaningful regulation of corporations, a lack of consequences for those corporations, and a system that rewards The rich hoarding wealth instead of giving the government the needed teeth to enforce tax Law on the wealthy.

It’s a known fact that the irs has blatantly admitted that they do not persue auditing and taking the wealthy to court for tax dodging due to the fact that they know the wealthy have the financial means to tie the irs in court for years before the irs will see a single dime of those taxes. The irs knows that if they took the hyper Rick to court the irs would go bankrupt from the legal fees of trying to enforce Tax Law and therefore they don’t even attempt to. Instead they openly admit that’s why if you are poor or middle class you are far More Likely to be audited and to be taken to court for tax crime. Because they knew normal people can’t fight the irs and we will end up giving them the money we owe.

The fact is the irs has admitted they don’t enforce Tax Law on the rich because they fucking can’t. And instead they keep a vice like grip on forcing the poor to pay every dime they can because of the poor are the only they can count on to pay their taxes They will squeeze us dry to make us for what they can’t force out of the hands of the rich.

This is how fucked the US is this is why we will never see nationalized health care, or a raise in federal min wage. Not that it will matter soon as they raise the non wage they people Renting houses will just raise the rent because they know they can now squeeze more money out of the working class so what the hell does raising the min wage even mater for anyways.

this is why every cent I have paid into Medicare and social security will end up gone And I will be told it don’t exist when I’m 75. This is why I will never be able to retire. Because the taxes I paid were taken and paid for my parents to retire while I will get to see jack shit of it.

And there is no way to change any of it because our system is so fucking broken the only thing short of a full blown revolution will do jack shit.

And the scary part is the right actually believes it’s the people for human rights that are the fascists, I literially saw just to say these jackasses arguing that the real Fascism is not letting people have the free speech to say racist jokes without being canceled.

I’ve within the last 24 hours literially heard the argument that the real naziism is not being allowed to call a Jew a k***. That’s right the real Nazis are the people who tell you not to be antisemitic. Because to the right any inhibition of the freedom to persecute and oppress is fascism. And guess what the fucking moderates eat it is and then say both sides are fascists.

No they fucking aren’t. There’s only one side that’s preaching ultranationalist rhetoric , yes the democrats are Shit. But I don’t even know what to call the republicans? The bar is already fucking low with the democrats there isn’t a comparison you can use for what they are. They openly applaud Hsing fucking Nazis at their rallies they broadly boast we Are All domestic terrorists.

And the moderates still go duuurrr huuurrr both sides!

You want to know why America is unrepairable fucked. Because the average white moderate American can not tell the difference between Republican fascism and Democrats just saying maybe we should have laws protecting human rights while also not having the spine to Actually push for that.

So yes this country is irreparably fucked and I would be so much more mentally healthy if I just Ignored it all Said not my problem And just became Comfortable that as a white cis het male I will be on the side that benefits from fascism and said not my problem, ignore the news because the fascism isnt hurting me yet, And as long as I don’t criticize those in power I will be fine.

Fuck this country I should really just give up stop Worrying and just make myself comfortable with being a Nazi if it comes to it. Because guess what no one wants to listen to me shouting into the void so what’s the fucking point in it

I think you mean Christians. It may be the Mormons here, but I don’t doubt for a second any Christian group would be doing this.

I’m absolutely fine with restricting water for churches and ski areas lol

/facedesk. The Bible literally tells us to be good stewards of this planet. The book of Revelation just shows that humanity will still exist, not that we won't be living in a toxic wasteland of our own doing.

If people actually read those "results" they would have seen that they were shitty (pun intended)

It is not the golf courses that are the problem. Though they do use a lot of water. The biggest problem are the alfalfa farmers. Agriculture uses over 85% of the water in Utah. Stop farming in a desert, or find ways to use water more efficiently. That is the real answer. Pointing fingers at golf courses won’t solve this

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There should be a regional threshold for annual rainfall before you can build a golf course.

Nope, my city will not let us xetiscape our yard. We refuse to over water so the dicks with code enforcement harass us every year.

I just want to get rid of my ugly damn grass and put in native plants and wood chips.

Half the state forces you to have a green lawn for what? Its unsustainable and stupid.

Republicans are just domestic terrorists at this point

“Rules for thee, not for me!”, say Mormons time and time again. If they aren’t willing to redevelop it, well, fields can be burnt!!

That's my point,too. The way information is framed and released matters. You end up with people who have no medical training reading an initial finding and claiming it's gospel without bothering to read further research explaining why results are not applicable.

If there were a law insisting that everybody have access to preliminary findings data, it would be very chaotic. Just because it's true doesn't mean it should be public. Wait for the final release.

Yeah I actually agreed with you and just added to your point. Information can definitely be incorrectly interpreted. And that is a huge part of the current state of Qanon and christian extremists. They believe wrong information.

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"if you read it on your own you might come to a conclusion I don't like. Therefore I want it to only be read to you by someone I can trust to spin it in such a way that you agree with me."

All it is.

Yeah, I once tried figuring out what to do to even just fix healthcare. It basically amounted to rebooting at least two branches of the government entirely and redoing much of the foundation they rest on as well.

It's gut-wrenching and I don't even live on the same continent. It's even more gut-wrenching that a lot of the brokenness stems from these systems dating back to naive early implementations that didn't have the foresight to anticipate perverse incentives and exploitable flaws. (Newer or newly-reformed countries get to use hindsight instead. Much easier.)

Citizens United v. FEC was simultaneously the worst decision on American legal history and a symptom of underlying systemic faults. Unfortunately they were already almost unfixable by then.

I wish I could tell you I believe in the death spiral ending and the States recovering to live up to their ideals. Because all in all you guys are alright with me and you deserve so much better.

Despite my doubts I hope, though. All I can do, I'm afraid, but I can at least do that. It's too early to give up on civilization. It's always too early.

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I enjoy the fact they didn’t even mention the major consumer of water: agriculture. Especially Alfafa

Mormons are a subset of Christianity, so it's perfectly apt.

Watering caddies is acceptable. Otherwise, waste of good water.

— Golfers, probably

Alfalfa that's then shipped overseas.

One of our local farms ships it to Japan to feed the fancy cows for the rich people meat.

sometimes people call the basic idea of monetary exchange capitalism and that's just not right

capitalism doesnt work because it will always seek to draw in all wealth to individual private owners, that's literally the meaning of capitalism it's a temporary ideology of governing because it will inevitably collapse if not controlled

there are other methods of governing that still use money but whose whole point isnt just to accumulate capital until there's nothing left, like for example justicialism, or further to the left: socialism, if you no longer have a currency you've gone too far left and strayed into communism turn right again

When it burns down and sinks, can you lot not take the rest of us with you?

>would quickly dry up

I see what you did there.

Me thinks their grass won't be too fond of that dust either lol

“In this instance, having more information will make people LESS informed, and that’s a situation that can only be avoided with secrecy. The less you know, the more… Ya know?

• Republicans probably

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but Utah relies on ski areas for significant economic reasons. It's not just as easy as "stop skiing" when many people's livelihoods depend on ski tourism.

That said, the water usage isn't a non-issue either. There may need to be changes in Utah's ski economy to deal with the reality of the drought, and that may require tough decisions. I'm not saying "don't change it", I'm just saying it's really complicated.

Sounds like you actually read the Bible, instead of just repeating… what someone else told you it said. How dare you! /s

It’s up the all of you to be willing to stop the Nazis when they take over the US. I just hope you all see the threat and nuke us before we can launch. In reprisal. Because if you don’t the alt right ain’t stopping in America.

And look at American military and look at how much of the Christian world is so happy to throw its lot in with fascism to stop progressivism.

Tell me honestly if America goes full Nazi and decides that a Christian theocracy must rule the world. With our military is there any way to stop us other than preemptive nuclear strike and hoping we get vaporized before trying to retaliate

Yeah, no. That article claims it takes 7,000 sq ft of land to produce one gallon of milk, yet they supply no details for how they arrived at that number.

After reading the entire article, they seem to assume traditional farming methods… rather than the brutal methods of modern large scale industrial farms, where the animals aren’t allowed to wander across grassy plains like in the past.

Nah, it's capitalism. It's just more advanced capitalism. The UK currently has the tories desperate to privatise every aspect of the healthcare service it can because capitalism. Ultimately capitalism leads to a state where the wealthy control everything and slowly turn everything to a profit generating machine. The US just accelerated down that path really quickly.

Profit above everything eventually seeps into every aspect of a capitalist society. The UK and other countries just aren't there yet. The NHS is one of the things us british people are most proud of, and yet morons vote for Tories and they are trying to tear it apart.