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wewhomustnotbenamed OP t1_j62t2pr wrote

NOOOO.. not the Fr*nch!

Edit: the original AP tweet has been deleted/hidden.

220

nenohrok t1_j62ube1 wrote

AP Stylebook is what the French call «les incompétents».

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Double-Parked_TARDIS t1_j62w2zu wrote

Zut alors! But do you really expect much better from people who loathe the serial comma?

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Safe_Departure7867 t1_j630pqz wrote

Never read such schlock as “Ivanhoe” is what they were really saying…

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Jump_Like_A_Willys t1_j635u6t wrote

“There are two things I can’t stand in the world: People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures, and the Dutch.” -- Nigel Powers

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PlasticGirl t1_j636zt1 wrote

This is clearly wrong, because in electronic music, "The French" are on another level of quality.

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Zombie_Jesus_83 t1_j638ajb wrote

Easy fix. Instead of using The French substitute "cheese-eating surrender monkeys."

−10

Gruntfuttoc t1_j638b4b wrote

Do they prefer something less offensive?

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froggison t1_j63ajs4 wrote

This is being taken way out of context. (However, even in context, it's still a little dumb.) They aren't saying don't say "The French" in general, they were using that as an example of how you shouldn't write any nationality. The French, The Dutch, The Japanese, etc. Instead, you should write French people, Dutch people, and Japanese people, etc.

Obviously they weren't going up to bat to defend the poor, downtrodden French people. Just using it as an example.

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WinoWithAKnife t1_j63bckb wrote

Replying to froggison (#1,525,994)

It's not just nationalities, it's other descriptors like that as well. In their post (which as far as I know was just a post of an excerpt from their guide, not a change), they also explicitly called out, ironically given your last sentence, 'the poor'.

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metikoi t1_j63bmy5 wrote

Remember, you must hate a Frenchman as you hate the devil.

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froggison t1_j63cs2n wrote

Replying to WinoWithAKnife (#1,526,080)

Yep, thanks for clarifying my comment! I just meant that "the French" part was referring to nationalities. But, yes, the sentiment was to avoid using "The [x]" and instead write something like "[x] people."

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sharrrper t1_j63cuyt wrote

Here's my universal translator. Unfortunately it can only translate into an obscure dead language.

Hello?

Bonjour!

Crazy gibberish!

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Coelacanth3 t1_j63cvyq wrote

Replying to WinoWithAKnife (#1,526,080)

It kind of makes sense tbh, "the" descriptors for nationalities aren't super offensive or anything but they do come across as slightly disrespectul and there are better ways of phrasing it, same for "the poor".

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kirkl3s t1_j63hi9e wrote

I would be very offended if someone called me Fr*nch

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BobDogGo t1_j63hoyk wrote

Let's not call them anything, let's just ignore them

−2

yessschef t1_j63jcxc wrote

Paper probably written by some French person

0

alicesartandmore t1_j63jphq wrote

Replying to Jump_Like_A_Willys (#1,525,497)

I just watched a really weird movie the other night called Speak No Evil, where this Danish couple meet a Dutch couple and get invited to come stay at the Dutch family's house for a weekend. Then the Dutch family become increasingly rude/hostile while the Danish couple are too polite to say anything/put a stop to it. It was dark but definitely one of the more interesting movies I've seen lately.

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mechy84 t1_j63lgrs wrote

Could someone please pass ___ French dressing.

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onetonenote t1_j63q62q wrote

The author Hari Kunzru quipped, “The accepted usage is ‘People with macarons.’”

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whimsicalphysics t1_j63qkk8 wrote

Was reading an article yesterday and Syphilis used to be known as "the French Disease". National pride was something.

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Arbernaut t1_j63rbv7 wrote

The French are not going to like this.

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Manimal31 t1_j63x97r wrote

Devil's advocate here. Don't the french kinda deserve some shade. They are the french by the way

−1

SocDemGenZGaytheist t1_j641oc9 wrote

Here's what AP means:

  • instead of "the transgenders," it's probably better to say "transgender people."
  • instead of "the blacks," it's probably better to say "Black people."
  • instead of "the Jews," it's probably better to say "Jewish people."
  • instead of "the LGBTQ," it's probably better to say "LGBTQ people."
  • instead of "the schizophrenics," it's probably better to say "schizophrenic people."
  • instead of "the homeless," it's probably better to say "homeless people."
  • and yes, instead of "the French," it may be better to say "French people."

Until yesterday I had no idea this was any kind of official AP standard. I just noticed that bigoted people talking about groups they hate often avoid calling those groups’ members "people."

Plus, using the plural "people" helps us avoid one of the most common thinking errors in social/political discourse: treating a group like they are all one singular allied organization with the same goals and desires when, in reality, the group has a diverse range of disagreeing opinions and different experiences.

(I feel like it must mean something that transphobes keep using weird phrases like "transgenders" and "transgenderism" and "the transgenders" to refer to trans people.)

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OutOfStamina t1_j641u58 wrote

Replying to Coelacanth3 (#1,526,302)

I find it an indicator of someone's other ideas. if they say "republicans" but also say "the democrats", they really give away their hand on many positions without even knowing it. Maybe it's a dogwhistle and I'm supposed to pick up on that... but I think most don't know they do it, just part of their programming.

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bnightm t1_j64a4h0 wrote

What in the world is going on in the comments of this post.

1

RingGiver t1_j64glnn wrote

If you called me French, I would be offended.

1

SilasX t1_j64gwww wrote

"Hey -- cut that out, that's not professional. You can't just compare someone to 'the French', a fictional society made up as an over-the-top example of people who are dainty and cowardly, more interested in setting up beautiful boulevards than the invading armies marching down them."

'Um, sir...' *whisper whisper whisper*

"Oh ... well, shit."

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purrcthrowa t1_j64h474 wrote

True, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing, right?

(To be fair, I love France and a high proportion of the French. It's just the Parisians who are the problem, as all non-Parisian French would agree).

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Devz0r t1_j64nefj wrote

Replying to froggison (#1,525,994)

We can’t sanitize everything. Sometimes it really feels like there’s a push more toward “doubleplus ungood”. Not everything needs to be scrutinized and under the microscope

inb4 literally 1984

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FistsofHulk t1_j64o5n0 wrote

Including after the word Pass and before the word Fries?

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Adelefushia t1_j64qu1y wrote

TIL I’ve been dehumanizing myself since the day I was born. More seriously, the quote was taken out of context. AP thinks it’s better to say « French people » instead of « the French ».

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BEN-C93 t1_j64s6l7 wrote

The French should as a whole pretend to be more human then, if the label of being French is dehumanising.

Yours sincerely, The English.

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Kelgan79 t1_j64swwp wrote

Nobody here in France gives a damn f*ck about all of this BS actually. Creating controversies for nothing left and right. As someboy else said before "it touches one without moving the other one" actually.

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nyrB2 t1_j65163p wrote

this is such a non-issue - AP was obviously using "the French" as an example, not singling out French people in particular.

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glorilol95 t1_j652qr7 wrote

Replying to Jrubas (#1,533,802)

nice of you to dismiss, UK,Canada,australia etc ....how american of you

bruh you owe france you entire fucking existance....from your lands to your entire fucking constitution. you country as you know it would never exist.

france is the last country who owe you something, pull your BS elsewhere

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fahrvergnugget t1_j654d15 wrote

Replying to cthulu0 (#1,531,175)

First of all a clip from the office isn't the authority on whats considered racist language. Secondly, Michael asking in good faith what's a less offensive term than Mexican is still better than him just straight up saying "You Mexican!" in an offensive way.

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TommyTuttle t1_j6551ot wrote

Stop calling them The French.

They are people. People With Frenchness.

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Jrubas t1_j6575m0 wrote

Replying to glorilol95 (#1,535,041)

Perhaps you've forgotten - or never knew, since you clearly have something against America - that our production capabilities kept the Soviet army in the fight. Khrushchev himself stated that without shipments of Spam from America, the USSR wouldn't have been able to feed its army. If they couldn't feed their army, the Germans would have knocked them out of the fight. If the Germans had knocked the Russians out of the fight, the UK, Canada, and Australia - hell, even the US itself - probably wouldn't have been able to stop the Germans. The Russians suffered millions upon millions of war deaths. Translate that to the Western front (because Russia's out of the war) and what you have is a German victory. So yes, the French would be speaking German right now.

Maybe it's time Europeans showed a little gratitude and stopped with this snobby holier-than-thou bullshit. The French helped us and we helped them. We wouldn't exist without them and without us there'd be swastika flags all over Paris.

Idk where Europeans get off thinking they're so much better than us when a full half of it spent the 20th Century under fascism, Nazism, or Communism. If they were so much better than us, they wouldn't keep sending people to death camps.

Or, you know, relying on a Russian dictator for most of their natural gas lol.

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p314159i t1_j65gwiy wrote

To be fair it is quite dehumanizing to be called the french.

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chucklesbro t1_j65hgu7 wrote

Replying to OutOfStamina (#1,529,822)

Not programming, useful. What should I say when I want to make a statement about all french people collectively? For example, The French pay higher income taxes than The Germans (I have no idea if this is true). That is not offensive. And, it does not mean precisely the same thing as saying French tax rates are higher than German tax rates.

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Hspryd t1_j65i5pf wrote

Replying to RoboJesus4President (#1,536,814)

Love the good ol « when it really mattered » speaking of History continuum haha !

I hope every conscious existences draw values out of their short lives and recognize that their choices and perspectives do matter in the era they’re born in.

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Atlas-Kyo t1_j65ivzf wrote

The French are problematic?

That sounds a bit racist to me.

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cthulu0 t1_j65orrw wrote

Replying to fahrvergnugget (#1,535,323)

>...authority on ....racist language

Oh man I work in HR and I was going to screen the Diversity Day episode in my presentation to the employees, but good thing you warned me else I would have been in serious trouble!!! Thanks man!

−4

Itavan t1_j65udfh wrote

Replying to froggison (#1,525,994)

I found out recently (I have Jewish friends) that calling someone a Jew is not nice. You have to say "Jewish person." I had no idea. Ditto not calling people the Dutch, the French, etc. I wouldn't be insulted if someone called me "the American", depending on their tone of voice.

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Kind_Bullfrog_4073 t1_j65y1v0 wrote

"Individuals of the nation of France" is the politically correct term.

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TenzenEnna t1_j661ula wrote

Replying to chucklesbro (#1,537,318)

"France has a higher income tax than Germany"

Doesn't seem that hard IMO.

You could say "Your average French citizen will pay a higher income tax than their German counterpart" if you wanted to fancy it up.

​

Also same claim as above, No idea if that's true, just showing sentences.

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metamagicman t1_j6625dm wrote

When they get rid of their colonies maybe we can talk. Until then they’ll be the dirty French.

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nmj95123 t1_j663ca0 wrote

Replying to froggison (#1,525,994)

They claim it to be dehumanizing because it may "... sound dehumanizing and imply a monolith rather than diverse individuals." How does "French people" imply a monolith any less than "the French?"

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owreely t1_j667epr wrote

Replying to Kind_Bullfrog_4073 (#1,539,549)

but what about groups of people commonly united by culture that have not been allowed to form some kind of officially recognized nationhood?

I feel "the nation" is an inconsiderate and wildly offensive phrase.

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magpietribe t1_j66ahup wrote

The Redditors just spat their coffee on their phones.

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ShadowDragon8685 t1_j66l3cb wrote

Replying to p314159i (#1,537,297)

Let's also not forget that thanks to a combination of French generals preparing really really hard for the last war for twenty years, and the Nazis' perfect willingness to invade literally anyone, the Nazis managed to bypass the French army more or less entirely and go running rampage throughout the rest of France, having seized the capitol while the bulk of the French military was still manning the Maginot Line.

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idler_JP t1_j66qkog wrote

Replying to HearthstoneOnly (#1,541,122)

Yes, by convincing the racists to continuously come up with more and more euphemisms and dog whistles, they will gradually be convinced WRT the superiority of liberal thinking, and therefore cease to be racist.

Oh no, wait, it's just a counterproductive excuse for circlejerk virtue signalling on the left that often actually insultingly infantilises the oppressed. Sorry, the oppressed people.

But hey, we all looove a bit of moral high ground ...when it doesn't cost any money

−3

cstmoore t1_j6737m5 wrote

But "Belgian" is still acceptable? /s

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SoySauceSyringe t1_j67lkab wrote

Replying to Itavan (#1,539,090)

I don’t think you’re giving yourself enough credit. I bet you kinda had an inkling. Like, let’s say you have one uncle who talks about “Jewish people” and one uncle who talks about “the Jews.” You’ve got a gut feeling as to which one might not be speaking about them so nicely, don’t you?

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SoySauceSyringe t1_j67lsc1 wrote

Replying to techitaway (#1,540,310)

Made a similar comment before, but yeah. Let’s say you have two uncles, and one refers to Jewish people while the other talks about the Jews. Do you think one of them is maybe a little more likely than the other to say something antisemitic?

You already knew the answer, let’s not pretend this is coming outta nowhere.

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VanDenBroeck t1_j68km8s wrote

I really liked this comment from the link.

“Instead of ‘The French’, the term ‘cheese-eating surrender monkeys’ is preferred.”

Spot on!

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jimi15 t1_j6a0vt9 wrote

In opposite to what? Since when was proper grammatics dehumanising?

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yourgoodfriendgeoff t1_j6arozd wrote

This is false. It says you should use adjectives as adjectives, not nouns. French people, not the French. Just as it’s black people, not The Blacks.

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OutOfStamina t1_j6e18qe wrote

Replying to chucklesbro (#1,537,318)

>What should I say when I want to make a statement about all french people collectively?

In your question you literally just did it without saying the more dehumanizing "the French". So... "French people" by your own example. "All french people"... "Some french people"... just a few ways to not use "the".

1