Submitted by HawtGarbage917 t3_11aw5r9 in nyc
HawtGarbage917 OP t1_j9udb63 wrote
The relevant chunk of the piece:
"Michael Rikon, an attorney whose law firm focuses on eminent domain...says said he agreed with MSG’s claim that it’s being singled out, given that MSG owns the property and has successfully operated it.
If the city denied the MSG permit, Rikon said, “Just compensation would be required. Because if they do not grant the special permit, the property becomes worthless. It can’t be used for its highest and best use.”
In 2021, the Empire State Development authority estimated that moving the Garden would cost the public $8.6 billion, including $5 billion to build a new arena."
Pool_Shark t1_j9uvxej wrote
I get having to pay for the land but why would the city be on the hook for a new arena?
shant_jan t1_j9vprjg wrote
because this is america and we love using tax money to build billionaires stadiums ¯_(ツ)_/¯
mojorisin622 t1_j9vubzs wrote
If the city took your house, that you just rebuilt 10 years ago, and was a perfectly fine house, would you sue and make the city build you a new one?
Pool_Shark t1_j9xbygp wrote
Yeah and I’d lose
mojorisin622 t1_j9xf2ek wrote
That's because you won't have an army of high priced lawyers working on your behalf. You can get away with eminent domain with a regular joe's home, but when you start messing with billion dollar corporations, you're going to lose.
Rottimer t1_j9yrss1 wrote
The city granted you a permit to build what you want on this land, but only for X years. You chose to build a house and now want to pretend that the permit wasn't temporary. Everyone will spend money on lawyers, but in the end, you had full knowledge of the situation when building the house.
Ame_No_Uzume t1_j9vvzes wrote
Because James Dolan is a whole bag of unholy words.
thecarlosdanger1 t1_j9wthz2 wrote
Super simplified version - “just” compensation if you force someone to sell that doesn’t want to includes the best possible value of their land + more to get them their asset back.
Pool_Shark t1_j9xc9uv wrote
But that’s not how eminent domain works. It is the gov needs land pays what they claim is fair and good luck
Rottimer t1_j9yrkto wrote
It wouldn't. They'll go through litigation and lawyers will make a shit ton of money, but as long as the Mayor doesn't get in the way, in the end the city will not be on the hook for anywhere near that amount. They chose to build that arena knowing they had a temp permit.
Melodic-Upstairs7584 t1_j9vw7tc wrote
I think this is also relevant:
“Alexandros Washburn, executive director of the Grand Penn Community Alliance, which calls for MSG to relocate, said that 10 years was long enough for MSG to have found a new location and planned a new arena. The complaint of no progress is a “self-inflicted hardship,” he said.
Washburn, a city planner under former Mayor Mike Bloomberg, was among three architects who last month presented their visions for a better Penn Station, all three of which relied on MSG relocating. Around 100 people showed up for their presentation at the Great Hall in Cooper Union.”
I don’t have much of an opinion on whether or not msg should be moved, but this isn’t an issue of eminent domain. No one is asking Dolan to transfer ownership and no one is saying he can’t operate sporting events. MSG has a special permit allowing for increased capacity that lasted for a period of ten years. Dolan wanted the original permit to be permanent because he was aware then, as he is today, that the city could decline to renew it for any reason. If Dolan ever transferred the stadium to a new owner, that entity would also be aware that permits can be revoked, even if they felt it was very likely to be renewed. That would be factored into the sale price, so the value of the property is unaffected.
Not sure why they asked an eminent domain attorney for an opinion. Shaping this as an eminent domain argument is interesting, but a complete non-starter.
vinnizrej t1_j9we8i2 wrote
Inverse condemnation is a government taking.
Melodic-Upstairs7584 t1_j9wo8gk wrote
Fair enough, what valid inverse condemnation claims in NY state have you observed that resulted from the revocation of a temporary permit? I can give you two common circumstances off the top of my head where these claims always fail:
A) I’m a restaurant owner and my liquor license was revoked, my business has been irrevocably damaged and I demand just compensation. These are denied because no business in NY state has an inalienable right to sell alcohol, they receive a permit which can be revoked at any time.
B) I’m a concert / event organizer and my permit to conduct my event was revoked by a county/municipality/etc. My brand is inseparable from the location where said event was held, so I demand just compensation. These are denied because no business in NY state has an inalienable right to host a high-capacity concert, they receive a permit which can be revoked at any time.
Valid inverse condemnation claims have a pretty high bar and involve assets that have been damaged due to material and reasonably unforeseeable changes (i.e an international airport is opened up next to a nature preserve for exotic birds). There were interesting inverse condemnation claims that were filed during the construction of the USA/Mexico border wall by effected property owners, for example.
Not renewing a permit is not a material change of circumstance. The permit is inherently temporary. It has an expiration date, renewal terms, cancelation clauses (I’m assuming).
If James Dolan sold you MSG under the pretense that the permit was guaranteed forever, you would have a valid legal claim against him. The city is under no obligation to renew the permit in perpetuity, therefore there has been no change to the value of the property, therefore no claim.
down_up__left_right t1_ja4ti6a wrote
I will never get over the decision to not pay hard ball with Dolan a decade ago and force him to move right across 8th ave then.
Instead Dolan renovated MSG in its current location directly atop all of the train platforms for the cost it took to build Barclays and then $1.6 billion was spent to build Moynihan in the space across 8th ave where it can't access all the platforms and can only access the end of the platforms it does connect to.
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