ShittyDuckFace t1_ja3ohv8 wrote on February 26, 2023 at 4:44 PM

Reply to comment by casanovaelrey in NYC council votes to name street after antisemitic Nation of Islam leader by drpvn

>I do want to caution against the motion that anyone who isn't a Jew that's anti-Zionism, is somehow antisemitic

Oh no worries I'm fully aware of this. What gives me caution is my own previous experiences with people who aren't aware of how these thoughts morph, and my own personal conversations that I've had with friends who have said anti-Zionist sentiments without realizing that they're teetering on antisemitism and don't realize that they're not fully aware of the whole situation - which makes sense, since we're halfway around the world from Israel! And as a person who doesn't have any ties to Israel, it's understandable that this comes from ignorance and not maliciousness.

I would caution you about the rise of NoI and BHI sentiments however...These sorts of talking points have been cycling around for decades now and even within liberal circles. I had a really sad conversation a few weeks back where my friend essentially wanted me to 'prove that I'm the real Jew', whatever that means. These talking points I would argue are unaligned with political beliefs, making them more dangerous.

casanovaelrey t1_ja3r5mj wrote on February 26, 2023 at 5:02 PM

Oh I agree with you 100%. I didn't mean to sound like I'm discounting the rise of BHI and NOI talking points in liberal circles. At all. You're more than correct in pointing it out. They're doing a great job of filtering their message through the lens of "Black empowerment". Which I think is so wrong and predatory, because they know the challenges faced by Black Americans, historically and cultural (we won't dive into everything here as I'm sure we're probably equally well-read on the subject) and they prey on their longing for a sense of community to influence and infiltrate.

Also, I know what you mean regarding the "truther" comments and questions. I try to see where it's coming from and if it's true ignorance and curiosity, I educate. I know it's not our "responsibility" but I feel like we should. Just because there's so much information and Jews sometimes tend to be insular and that can be seen as "hiding something" to an outsider. That's just my perspective though.

And you're right, in that we must guard against legitimate concerns being highjacked by people with nefarious intentions. Honestly I look at the anti-Zionist/Jew movement on the extreme Left (and creeping into some more mainstream circles) and pro-Zionism on the Right as a war between extremist White and Black nationalists. Both use Jews as a pawn in their ideology but in truth don't really care about us as a people, per se.

Like the Right wing Christian extremists who only support Israel because 1. there are White Jews/racism against a majority Brown people, although there are also White Palestinians (but the perception is otherwise). 2. They think Jesus is the messiah and will only return if Israel has been established. 3. They think Jewish people will be forcefully "saved by the Gospel".

Just a thought. What do you think? I know I kinda took it in another direction but I'm curious.