Fuck those assholes

W181st A train at 530pm on a Friday. Dang.

Outrageous. That kid appeared to be completely defenseless, and just wanted to be left alone.

Trains just aren’t what they used to be. I could sleep from brooklyn to bronx on D train and set an alarm on my phone but now i gotta keep both eyes open

Anti black slurs in upper Manhattan? I'm wondering if it was a bunch of Dominican kids picking on a Haitian or something, usually I don't see a lot of anti-black racism there of all places.

That was really upsetting to see. I'm violently angry after watching it.

I don't care how old these kids were. They should spend time locked up for this.

Bittersweet to see that I’m not just going crazy feeling this way too

Jut saw this on tik tok and the person who posted the video said the victim is autistic, which makes this even more sad and heartbreaking. Poor guy.

The scene was surreal. Still hate these 3 fuckers with all my heart for ruining that r211 run.

This was horrific to watch.

Serious question: for the adults watching a situation like this unfold, what exactly can they do? Besides the threat of many of them jumping the adult, the adult would be in trouble if they got physical with the “kids”, no?

It is an underappreciated form of anti-Black racism, and very well could be the case (but we don’t know the details yet).

I was left with a lasting impression by this article of how bad it can be (this is specifically referring to Mexican neighborhoods in LA). It just wasn’t the image I had always conjured up when thinking about “racism”.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2007/latino-gang-members-southern-california-are-terrorizing-and-killing-blacks

Nothing more dangerous than a group of unsupervised teens in this city.

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This looks like one of the first runs of the new R211 train too and was likely packed with railfans, many of whom are teenagers themselves. Wonder if that played a role in this.

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Indeed for assailants with high risk tolerance and lower understanding of consequences, more unpredictability and more error prone or lack of good judgement, you've got no idea what could happen, I can't say I'd be rearing to intervene with my lanky ass lol.

Indeed, risk going to real jail for hitting a kid and if the kid hits you they get a slap on the wrist. Another downside is you’re seriously injured, a lot of these kids know how to fight and want to, I don’t know how to fight and really don’t want to

You have a gut feeling that 181st street is close to Washington Heights?

Nothing. Remember the reporter who told a group of teens to stop harassing a guy. He got beat up pretty bad

I used to skip school by riding the NYC subway lines with 0 problems

Fuck those bum ass teenagers who attacked this kid.

That's the shittiest part of this situation. We have so much to lose. Sure, we could deck one of those teenagers and knock them the fuck out and in defense of another kid, but if we are arrested or our names are dragged through the mud by a bunch of Twitter warriors, our paychecks, housing, careers, and livelihoods might be toast. These bum teenagers along with the bum adults who breed them have nothing to lose by acting like a bunch of zoo animals in public. Unless the government holds them accountable for their actions, we're powerless against them.

Exactly correct. Shits so backwards.

Conventional wisdom would say you would never get in trouble for defending a kid from a violent gang style beating, but this is the same borough where the DA charged a bodega worker with murder even after they had video of him clearly defending himself.

Also, you don't know how other people would react.

It doesn't seem like they cared about a bunch of teens bullying another teen, but if someone didn't know what was going on and saw an adult beating up some kids, you might catch a beat down of your own from a half dozen people

There's Haitians in the heights?

Video is infuriating to watch.

Poor kid looks absolutely terrified the entire time.

Tries to get on the train twice before getting beaten.

This is why I'm not necessarily a fan of laws which restrict minors from getting charged as adults.

There are situations, such as this one, where adult consequences are warranted.

I mean they were saying n word alert to describe the person hard r and all

Yeah, still seems weird to pick someone out for an anti-black hate crime in area that's about half black.

Oh yeah I agree definitely weird, but not unheard of

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For these teens there are no consequences in court, and no consequences at home.

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Always been the case. I’ve been taking the subway and bus almost everyday of life for over 30 years. Starting from junior high school, through high school, college, and my career.

I got jumped on the train in both high school and junior high by groups of teenagers for no reason (this was late 90s). I got harassed by groups of teenagers even as an adult. Not saying all groups of teenagers are bad, but being part of those groups of teenagers myself at some point, the peer pressure and need to look cool in front of others makes you do dumb shit. Nothing annoys me more, even now, than seeing a group of rowdy teenagers on the bus or subway. I know they are kids and I let it slide, especially being in that position myself once. But, even if a bystander stepped in, he or she would risk getting attacked too.

Also, anyone bringing race into it is stupid. The same stuff happens regardless of the race or location of the kids. Even in the suburbs, groups of unsupervised teens are the worst.

And the adults do nothing…

This was hard to watch. Feel so bad for the poor kid

Why did they do this?

>an anti-black hate crime in area that's about half black.

What a weird argument. Theres no anti-black hate crimes in Mississippi because its half black..???

What is a railfan..

I mean Mississippi has a massive history of being racist against black people. Washington Heights/the Bronx is not exactly Mississippi...

Oh nah, my daughter is autistic. Now, I got more rage for them. I'm not gonna lie.

What do you think about having more armed citizens? With background checks, psychological checks, registries, etc. Do you think that would be more of a negative or a positive in situations like this in our city?

Jesus Christ. What is wrong with people!?

Negative in a big way. I'm a supporter of second amendment and if we were country that had extensive background checks I would definitely feel more comfortable. The issue that I really have with so many people being armed is that something as simple as harassment or even a fight which would end up with most people walking away winds up with someone dead or bystanders shot and killed. The last thing I want to be is stuck on a subway train with some lunatic firing their gun. If someone pulls the emergency brake, the car stops and you're literally stuck there.

it's what it implies, a fan of railway transportation.

Yo that's a station I'm at often... WTF is with people ?!

As an Asian, people are people. No one deserves this type of treatment. Hope this kid recovers from this.

I understand. This has always been an issue in densely populated metro areas. I wish there was a better way for people to keep themselves safe and be able to help their fellow citizens, all without coming into harm's way.

With a group of teenagers, call 911 or tell the conductor so they can call the police.

If it’s a station where police are stationed then I wish I could tell you to go get the police, but that usually ends with some smarmy comment from the cops about “so why didn’t you do something about it?” They’re more likely to respond through “official” channels.

What you don’t want to do is get involved on your own. If you’re in your 30s or older, the fact is that teenagers are often faster, stronger and have a lot less impulse control than you. They won’t mind beating the shit out of you and running away. If it’s you and a couple of other guys, then maybe you can intervene.

As shitty as this situation was, it doesn’t look like anyone ended up in the hospital. There were broken glasses, a bloody lip and probably a bruised ego. Those kids should absolutely be arrested. But introducing a gun in this situation may have put someone in the morgue. That would absolutely be a worse outcome even for assholes like these.

When we’re you able to do that?

Yep no anti-Blackness in non Black Latino communities 🙄🙄🙄

>As shitty as this situation was, it doesn’t look like anyone ended up in the hospital.

Do you think there is a limit to the amount of damage you should receive before you can use a gun?

>But introducing a gun in this situation may have put someone in the morgue. That would absolutely be a worse outcome even for assholes like these.

At what point do you think that someone should not be concerned with the well-being and safety of their attacker?

I can excuse racism and beating up children, but I draw the line at attacking autistic people.

(/s so I can’t get a “this u?” 10 years from now)

I'm not excusing racism or beating up kids, but that's another EXTREME TYPE of vulnerability. Lil man probably didn't even know what was going on other than knowing someone was being hostile to him. Stop trying to be mad to be mad until you been around someone autistic. Someone like that isn't gonna ask for help if theyre dying.

Deadly force is a last resort where your life or the life of another is in danger of ending and you or they cannot get away. The problem with this is that people with guns get it in their head that anything can put their life danger - “that guy called me an asshole and is staring me down, what if he punches me and I hit my head on the pavement and die? Time to pull out the gun and start blasting!!!”

There is also the issue with population density and the fact that bullets don’t care about your intent. NYPD cops know this first hand as a number of police involved shootings have harmed innocent bystanders. More guns in this city, legal or otherwise, will result in more gun deaths.

1. It’s a joke, chill.

2. How uncommon do you think autism is?

Oh OK. I know it's common tho.

Yo, I was all confused

>Deadly force is a last resort where your life or the life of another is in danger of ending and you or they cannot get away.

Yes, I understand.

>The problem with this is that people with guns get it in their head that anything can put their life danger - “that guy called me an asshole and is staring me down, what if he punches me and I hit my head on the pavement and die? Time to pull out the gun and start blasting!!!”

This definitely can occur, but I don't think it's fair to assume that every gun owner is a hypersensitive cowboy that is ready to shoot first. But I do understand that can be the case with certain types of people. I also knew guys that pulled out boxcutters or hammers as soon as they felt threatened. But I am also aware that a gun can do much more damage in a much shorter amount of time.

>There is also the issue with population density and the fact that bullets don’t care about your intent. NYPD cops know this first hand as a number of police involved shootings have harmed innocent bystanders. More guns in this city, legal or otherwise, will result in more gun deaths.

True. More armed people up the chances of shootings. That's a very major problem in our country currently. I know that the NYPD used certain types of bullets ( I think hollowpoints ) since they tend to break apart in the body and not go through people as easily.

I just think there should be a middle ground between making it impossible for reasonable, vetted, and regularly trained individuals to have access to a tool that can keep them safe in a violent altercation. It just seems to me that criminals and cops can easily get access to guns in NYC.

I am aware of the issues with gun control in this country. I am aware of the problems that unreasonable gun laws cause. I am not a gun nut. I am not asking these questions to troll either. NYC has some of the most strict firearm regulations in the entire country. It's just that I have personally been a victim of violent crime on more than one occasion. There was a very big difference in the outcome when I was armed vs. When I was unarmed. I think being armed can keep people safe in situations like this. I don't think you always have to shoot. Sometimes just the threat can be enough.

> NYC has some of the most strict firearm regulations in the entire country.

And it's also one of the safest cities in the country. There will always be crime. I simply don't believe that more guns is going to be the solution to minimizing it. There are states with far less regulation on guns and their largest cities tend to be much more violent than NYC.

Edit: And by the way, I'm not anti-gun. Guns have their place. But I think if you live or visit a large city and it's suburbs, you should meet much greater scrutiny to have a gun on you than if you live, in say, rural West Virgnia.

I understand what you are saying. I agree.

Zoo animals are pretty chill. Do you think that animals in the wild pick on other animals just to hurt them. Not even eat them after. A cartoon animal yeah sure I can see that but a zoo animal.

I live in this part of the city and I’m absolutely disgusted by this.

Where did you see such a comments?

Bold of you to call Washington Heights a "non-Black Latino community"

Really? Sounded more like a bunch of riders fed up with subway fans forming over the new R211s

There are ways. It’s just cost a lot of money

By himself. He posted this same comment a few times.

precovid

Get me off this earth I'm so sick of these kind of vile people.

Nah I’d fight that case tooth and nail

This is the same city state that just dropped a first degree murder conviction on one of the members who killed Lesandro “Junior” Guzman-Feliz and that guy was caught on video.

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/bronx/court-throws-out-murder-conviction-in-bronx-justice-for-junior-case/

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You didn't ride them in the 80s....they'd steal your sneakers, slice your pockets and empty...wild.

I rode the train to Manhattan in the 80s. Unless it was rush hour, we never rode alone. There were designated cars where all the kids staying after school for sports, clubs, etc would know to ride for safety in numbers. I made friends with guys I didn't like because they lived near me and we'd see each other a few times a week for years.

NYPD Hate Crime Unit is On it...

They never do. I was mugged so many times on the street between middle school and high school and people just walked by.

For at least a decade in the 2010s before covid. Fall asleep, headphones in. Any train, anywhere, any time of day. I used to work nights in the village and would doze off at midnight on empty trains going to Brooklyn. With a designer purse full of cash, no less. Used to go home after raves at 4am wearing fishnet bodysuits and booty shorts. Rode trains during rush hour all of high school and college. No issues. Crime and theft definitely happened, but you could generally expect to ride the train in peace without having to worry about falling asleep, having visible electronics or decent clothes.

Twenty years ago those kids was gang affiliated was mostly armed. I doubt that charged changed for the better. The only kid I'm protecting is mine sadly. Can't risk my life for anything less.

Yes this was 20+ years ago

Yeah, I’ve lived here just about all my life, with exceptions for college and the military. The only time I’ve felt comfortable falling asleep on a train is during rush hour when the train was packed. I promise you that a young woman taking the train at night in the 2010’s wasn’t going to be falling asleep. Shit happens. And I think people are more concerned with the perception of safety on the subway than actual safety.

I’m very much pro-2A, but a bunch of guns in a crowded city would only result in more death. It doesn’t matter how much you train someone. There’s nothing safe about using a gun on a busy train.

They from the same God damn island that shit is so fucking Ed

I dunno dude, I suppose its the question on whether you want to see this kind of shit in the news or ' 2 teens airholed by straphangers trying to break up fight between said teens '

I do not trust gun types to make these sorts of decisions. The police can be bad enough at it already. Anyone who's gonna carry a piece in the subway system is either already on their way to get into bad shit somewhere else or is going to be some herb from Westchester or Long Island who pisses their pants at their own shadow from time to time.

And, funny enough, the criminals who are already carrying on the subway don't really get into confrontations on said subway. It's odd, but that's how it shakes out. I guess they even know not to piss on their typical form of conveyance.

Yep, when I was going to college pre Covid (well about 10 yes ago) I used to ride it alone after midnight and never thought twice about it. definitely not now.

It's amazing you got so many upvotes when it's clear there isn't a single comment here that matches what you're saying.

The Anti-Asian racists in this sub need to stop self-projecting.

oh that explains all the uniformed police in the station the last few days. ugh.

This type is attack is consistent with statistics but doesn't fit this subs narrative so it won't get thousands of upvotes and hArDwOrKiNg mOdEl mInOrITy comments.

As an aside, let those dumbass kids pop that stupid shit a few dozen blocks below in Harlem and see what happens to them.

Doesn't matter, Latin America is filled with confused people who cling to colorism to boost their self-esteem. It's a relic of colonialism/slavery thats still part of the culture. The common refrain 'mejorar la raza' (improve the race) encourages miscegenation with whites and lighter skinned Latinos to dilute Black ancestry.

Watch the video on Instagram, they repeatedly shouted "N word alert" (hard R).

Who do you think taught those kids to hate?

I watched the one that was on the public freak out subredded and he kept saying on r211 which is what that train was

Lock these fuckers up. Messing with a teenager like that.

He probably means on other, less-moderated platforms like Twitter etc.

The bougie part of the heights

Why doesn’t MTA hire bouncers to protect the subways? People obviously don’t trust the police, and they’re too expensive. Some big ass bouncers on the trains could help keep things safe.

Also fighting a group of kids if you intervene. If you lose you can lose 1v1 but if you get the upper hand 5 more are going to jump in

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In my experience a loud shout of “HEY KNOCK IT OFF” and “5-0, 5-0 RUN” is good enough to get everyone to stop for a couple seconds assess and run away it’s worked a couple times on and off the subway

I believe the victim is autistic also.

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Where is the full video ? From what I see here, the attack looks more like some grabbing and pulling and definitely does not look brutal .

Did you not read the article you linked? You make it seem like the guy you mentioned will just walk free. The article says the state literally could not make the legal case for first degree murder (requiring an element of torture), and so the guy will be sentenced for second degree murder. He still faces life in prison.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxA8vTd2VnQ

They dragged this poor kid out of a store and beat him, slashed his neck and left him to die and they they have the gall to say

"Thus, we find that defendant and his accomplices did not engage in a ‘course of conduct’ involving the intentional infliction of extreme physical pain.”"

He was convicted by a jury of his peers and the city reduced it.

I'm sorry but you just got insanely lucky. I've personally witnessed sleeping people getting pickpocketed on the train during the time period you mentioned, multiple times.

The appellate division of the New York Supreme Court vacated the first degree murder conviction, so no, it was not the city... Again, did you read what you linked?

No one is debating whether or not this was an awful crime. You seem to be mixing up the Manhattan DA with NY state law. The city didn't reduce anything.

This was like an everyday thing (and I’m sure it’s still an everyday thing) back in HS - Brandeis on 84th. Dominicans used to go around the hallway hitting black folks; black folks used to go around hitting Dominicans. Probably worst uptown, what GWs? 🤷‍♂️

I edited it from City to State, but it doesn't matter. Its the same political machine that put those state judges there and made this determination.

Also with 25 years to life who is to say they will actually get life with the lessor sentence?

I think it would balance itself out eventually. I also think it would bring rent prices down.

Do you sincerely think that the average person doesn’t trust the police to stop violent attacks such as this one? Also, I think MTA bouncers would be useless because we already have a government body to protect citizens and aid those in danger: the police.

I really hope situations like this (involving violent teens) don’t occur again. However, the reality is that they likely will, and the average citizen can’t help the victim because society would penalize them for attacking a “kid”.

I feel so bad for the victims in these particular situations. Especially this innocent teenager here.

I only bring that up because the comment you originally replied to was lamenting about the Manhattan DA who charged the bodega worker for acting in self-defense, making your comment seem like this is just yet another example of Manhattan DA incompetence, when by reading the article it's clear it's not that at all.

To answer your second question, there's no guarantee I suppose, but if you read the link you sent, the Bronx DA (who is not in favor of the NY Supreme Court's ruling) said the guy has already been sentenced to 25 to life as part of the second degree murder conviction, and is also charged with conspiracy and gang assault on top of that. Those seem like appropriate charges to me, given what I know, and I expect the total charges will likely extend his sentence to the maximum.

Ok well I rode since 2000 which is still 20 years ago now. So get over your 80s they sucked and it sucks now who gives a shit gramps. The point is your 80s are back.

You won’t lost a 1v1, the moment you intervened, 10 of them started attacking you for sure. This is exactly what they did to this teenager no? The moment he hit the girl back 2 others attacked him - it’s planned. Friend of mine on the subway stood up to these teens one time since they were being racist towards a younger kid, they jumped him, gave him a black eye then fled. Nypd did shit all and kept giving him the run around - waste of our taxes that day

That's just the police but with extra steps

>And, funny enough, the criminals who are already carrying on the subway don't really get into confrontations on said subway. It's odd, but that's how it shakes out. I guess they even know not to piss on their typical form of conveyance.

Do you think that it's because they have a gun, and nobody wants to get themselves shot?

>I dunno dude, I suppose its the question on whether you want to see this kind of shit in the news or ' 2 teens airholed by straphangers trying to break up fight between said teens '

I know that this won't be popular, but I think sometimes you bring it on yourself. I hear about shootings and violent crime all the time on the news. Usually, it's about a victim of it who couldn't defend themselves. I grew up in this city, and anyone who did (especially during a certain time in certain places) knows how violent things can get. You can't fight off everyone. You know that some people are batshit crazy. I don't think it's alright that it's culturally acceptable in NYC to just accept that on occasion, you could get jumped on the train. You are just expected to deal with that or watch yourself more. I don't like relying on some cop (who is probably hiding out in a room in transit) to come help me out. I only see police show up after the fact in many cases. You know that's how it works. I personally think more citizens having the ability to keep themselves safe is more of a positive than a negative. Especially after hearing another story about an autistic kid who got jumped and stomped out by a bunch of shit heads. Of course, no one tried to help since they didn't want to get hurt. It could also be because some people don't care what happens to you... So I think people should be able to look after themselves. Even if it means every now and then you could turn into Swiss cheese.

Edit: spelling

I remember while commuting to high school years ago on the M and L trains, I got surrounded and robbed by 3 guys on the M platform right in full view of everyone. The only thing anyone did was yell "assholes!" as they ran off. It was years ago and I still remember the person saying that because I couldn't believe that's all anyone did.

How?

Seriously. I started taking the subway from Queens to Manhattan for high school in '89 and those were some crazy days. Friends got stabbed one day, i got robbed what seems like every other day. People still laugh at my skittles story - 14 year old me just wanted to eat some skittles on my ride home and some kids even tried taking THOSE from me.

Pretty sure my crime was eating candy while white.

I didn't mention the DA at all.

I didn’t say you did.

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Yet you made the assumption. I said the city and I should have said the state. Regardless it is the same political machine that put the state judges and the city ones

Back in hs about 10 years ago, I fought off two guys trying to steal my phone (stupid I know) in a bus for a full bus stop... Nobody did anything or try to comfort me, even after the two other guys gave up fighting me and got off the bus.

This is nyc. I expect this (people not doing anything) and nothing more. If someone intervenes, good for them. But I would never bet on it.

By lowering the population and damaging property.

I made no assumption. But your comment’s lack of clarity (and, as you admit, false info) could easily lead anyone who read it to believe that the choice to vacate the first degree murder sentence was a bad (perhaps political?) decision on the part of the DA’s office.

Clearly, the defendant’s lawyers filed an appeal that was ruled favorably upon by the state supreme court. What exactly is your problem with that?

That’s… a horrible way to lower rent. If anything that makes things worse for those already living in those areas

Should be there permanently. A lady was slashed at that station a while ago when there was a serial stabber on the loose

I made a mistake and it was more about the politics then the DA. If I meant the DA I would have said so.

My problem is the political ideas and the machine that has enabled this.

Used to get on the 2 train at New Lots and sleep til at least 42nd street….. I was not a smart man.

Man you’re so stupidly racist you see a black kid being attacked in a hate crime and have to try and make it about how bad you think black people are? Fuck outta here.

I understand that, but what I'm trying to get at is that based on the article you linked, the circumstances surrounding the case you're referring to has literally nothing to do with "political ideas and the machine".

Stop trying to add fuel to the fire and wait for details.

This Is Very Sad & Ridiculous!!! Who Would DO Such A Thing :'(

I am just trying to bust balls now. I was genuinely asking in my first question, but I understand that this is a tricky and complicated subject.

Why would they? You saw how many shithead kids were there? That's a mob beating or stabbing risk waiting to happen.

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I’ve read comments that the young victim is on the autism spectrum. Anyone assaulting autistic people should be sterilized. We don’t need them reproducing.

Seriously no one could’ve stepped in and stopped these two teenage girls?? I could understand fully grown adults throwing blows, but looking at the video it seems like something that could have easily be stopped.

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We’re nowhere near 80s levels of crime…

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I’m pretty sure back when you were sleeping on trains, stuff like this was still happening. You just may not have known about it, because we just weren’t as hyper aware of everything back then.

Here's the person who actually filmed the video: https://www.instagram.com/stories/americanmartian/3057952719188675304/

In his IG story he's criticizing the media for the hate crime angle they're going with and calling for them to correct the story.

According to him, it was not a racially motivated attack. All the kids know each other and the autistic kid (Elijah) was getting beat up because he was talking smack about the other kids and making fun of two of their friends who recently died from subway surfing. Other kids also said Elijah apparently previously joined in on beating up another kid too so he wasn't getting anything here that he hasn't dished out himself on others.

Got it. No offense.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/11qngmc/teen_brutally_attacked_in_nyc_subway_station_hate/jc7u32j/

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What are you even talking about? Please seek help for your hateful opinions.

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Propaganda? What the duck are you talking about?? I don’t know if the attacker is black, I just know racist slurs were used. That usually signifies a hate crime.

Why are you so hell bent on making this anything but about about a story where a young black boy was bullied and beat up? Are you so averse to recognizing that black people can be victims of crimes that you have this weird visceral and racist reaction to this story? Says a shit ton about you.

You know a community is considered a group of people, not the geographic area, right?

You do know that almost everyone who identifies as Dominican has significant African heritage, right?

Sorry about your buddy, no good deed. He has a black eye and the kids went home and ate ravioli like nothing happened

The literally has nothing to do with it. Dominicans and African Americans are two distinct groups in nyc with different cultures and some have biases towards the other group.

The law is a harsh mistress. For first degree murder, the law requires a showing beyond a reasonable doubt that "the defendant acted in an especially cruel and wanton manner pursuant to a course of conduct intended to inflict and inflicting torture upon the victim prior to the victim’s death." A single stab wound that results in death almost certainly cannot constitute torture under this law as a single action cannot be a "course of conduct". The idiot was convicted of second degree murder.

To give you an idea of how hard it is to get a conviction for first degree murder by torture, only three convictions have been obtained in the thirty years it has been in effect.

You didn't say African American. You said black. Afro Latinos are black but they are not African American.

Ohhhhhh this story just gets worse and worse

The dragging out of a deli and the beat down doesn't fit those requirements? It wasn't just a stab wound.

I agree to disagree

Pulling him out of the deli wasn't meant to infect torture. It's a law meant for really specific purposes and the prosecutor tried to stretch it.

I’m sure that’s a real consolation to this teen you dope.