I can’t believe something like this is allowed to operate.

How can this be happening? No news on this?

Is this some deal the government cooked up w China in return for something else?

It's the fucking daily mail.

Daily Mail does suck, but if you google the story other people are reporting it.

This is it: https://www.americachangle.com

107 E Broadway #3A, New York, NY 10002

“ENGLISH NAME: AMERICAN CHANGLE ASSOCIATION N.Y.INC

Article 4: Purpose: Extensive solidarity, beautiful relatives, mutual aid, and patriotic spirit. For the interests of relatives, enthusiastic community public interest, encourage Chinese people to join the government, and integrate into the mainstream society.

Article 5: Mission: We will strive to enhance the friendship of the people of China and the United States, contribute to the prosperous overseas Chinese residence, and the prosperous motherland. Guided members comply with U.S. federal, state, and municipal laws and Chinese laws.”

Apologies for the mediocre translation. Personally I find this alarming, and encourage everyone to read the Safe Guard Defenders report. I think called “110 overseas”

I think it's like the old stories of a private investigator firm in another country. I think I read that in the US the FBI monitors them but unless they break any US laws or the people they're persecuting file charges they can't do anything.

Like, is this true? I was just reading an article of the same thing happening in Canadian cities where the ccp were calling them "service" centers but neither one really came from what I would call reputable sources.

Sure they do. People need to stop believing every little thing they hear about other countries. Do you think it’s a coincidence that the three nations the media loves to exaggerate and write about (DPRK, china, Russia) are all Asian?

Enforcing foreign laws on US persons on US soil violates US sovereignty and breaks several laws. Simply operating in US as a foreign agent without declaring being a foreign agent is illegal.

Go tell Putin he’s not in the European sphere, I bet he’d love that. Calling Russia “Asian” is hilarious.

"We don't work for the Chinese government... we are simply patriots who convince criminals to return home to face punishment"

Why do they want them back so bad? Not enough unethically paid factory workers?

American Changle? What, was this named by Dr Steve Brule??

Is this really that shocking? This is common practice with just about every world government. Hell, even the NYPD has intelligence offices all over the globe.

Literally just read a post about Ottawa canada having the same kind of problem (but bigger). Edited to spell ottawa correct

Lets Check it out

FBI Open Up

>convince

That’s probably the key word from a legal standpoint. I doubt these people arrest or detail anyone. They probably use vague and plausibly deniable threats to get dissidents to return for punishment

On top of that, everything they say is probably monitored by US intelligence so it’s mutually beneficial to let them go on

Begone shill

Its not like CNN, MSNBC and FOX, WAPO, dont post stupid shit for articles all the time. I can produce to you a shitload of shit articles from those sites. Stop being so fragile.

jfc.

They're not enforcing foreign laws on us soil they convince people to return to China where they then can enforce laws. It's like the spy movies unless they're caught doing something illegal in their cover, cant arbitrarily detain or arrest people.

If you don't think there's a gigantic difference between the Washington Post and the Daily Mail - congratulations, you're a dipshit.

…while operating as an undeclared agent of a foreign government.

To stop them hiding money here in the US buying up property

Just because someone looks sharper and has some great moment doesn't mean he is bullet proof from having moments of sheer stupidity at best and at worst moments of neglect and malice.

Like I said, I can point to moments like these from NYT, Wapo, FOX, MSNBC, CNN.

Go enjoy the weather now.

I’ve always wondered about this. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Chinese diaspora has always stuck me as fairly apolitical with regards to China when compared to immigrants from other parts of the world. I wonder if this plays into that.

[deleted]

Ottawa?

They don’t monitor Americans overseas and threaten their families back home though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/xykw1q/its_entirely_illegal_for_china_to_open_police/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Yes in Ottawa, not ottowa. Got it. Thank you.

[deleted]

[deleted]

Changle (two syllables; "-le" = "lea" in "learn") is a district of Fuzhou City where lots of Fuzhounese New Yorkers originate from. Our Chinatowns have at least a few associations named after a common hometown, partially because it's easier to network/socialize/get support among people who share the same native dialect

Where are all the antifa dorks?

Literal fascist government opens a HQ in your city and not a peep.

It's the Daily Fail, not news.

> On top of that, everything they say is probably monitored by US intelligence so it’s mutually beneficial to let them go on

This. And if they're not being monitored, we have much bigger problems.

[removed]

Not a peep from the (C)hinese (N)ews (N)etwork

Edit: CNN is a super trustworthy news source

Fuck the Chinese government. Hope they read this.

It’s more accurately described as targeted propaganda. Calling it secret police speaks more to this “watchdog’s” funding strategy than a sober assessment of the situation.

Or could it be that they’re too small in numbers to hold any political sway and don’t want to get on any side’s bad side.

Yes, it’s very uncommon and a violation of human rights and international law.

> Although the CCP claims the stations are meant to keep an eye on ‘fraud and telecom fraud’ committed by citizens living aboard, the human rights group condemned the stations.

>Laura Harth, the Safeguard Defenders’ campaign manager, said it was shocking to learn that China was carrying out police operations in foreign countries.

>‘I think it shows how brazen the CCP is getting and how little regard they have for other governments,’ she told . ‘It’s in violation of international law, it’s in violation of territorial sovereign.’

Probably because those countries are run by a fash regime my guy.

A lot of times, families back home in China are threatened in such a way it coerces the individuals abroad to return back there.

Deport all these fucks immediately and with extreme prejudice

Its the embassy and common practice by all nations. Every nation's embassy on foreign soil is a foreign intelligence staging post

You literally can be charged with tax evasion for not paying us taxes when you've left

Their’s uh niecer weigh too do dat.

The political stance differs depends on various factors - age, social status, education, etc.

Someone's grandparents who suffered through Communism in China during the mid 20th century and then moved to America in the 70-80s would be very anti-China. On the other hand, another person's grandparents who are of similar age but moved to America in the last decade would've experienced the explosive economic growth in China that started in the 90s so they would think more fondly of it.

If they know English, they'll naturally gravitate towards American news sources which are obviously pro-America. The ones who aren't fluent will stay in the Chinese social media ecosystem, where they'll interact more with mainland Chinese citizens.

This is a somewhat nothing burger as the NYPD has Singapore offices as well.

NYPD Officers have arrested people on foreign soil and brought them back to NY to be charged.

Yeah , like , “I’m trying to convince you to go back home as the government over there says if you do not return they will make your family pay”. That’s convincing enough for most anyone with a heart and love for there family.

yeah it's even weirder that municipal authorities in the west are willing to look the other way. sucks that they're all kind of in bed together

Omg, I use to live in the building next door. Wtf.

[deleted]

Thanks for the response. I’m curious why your family is unlikely to talk about politics outside the family?

No there definitely is something to it. A close associate of mine in America with citizenship but is Chinese and in education will talk about anything political but when i talk about the changes in education in China, or anything political in China, he's non-responsive. I'm just now learning that once you leave China you are still never 100% free. And what you do in America can effect those you have living in China, or can restrict you from ever visiting China again.

r/fucktheccp

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Doing shady Chinese work on American soil should be illegal here. Do we have no say as tax paying citizens? Or is our government operating the same as the CCP? I don’t understand... Are we keeping the peace in hopes that our turning a blind eye would work both ways and be reciprocated in the future?

No, you drungus

Are you really comparing what the Chinese government does to their citizens abroad to what the US does? Absurd.

[deleted]

They're probably working for a company not directly for the government. All countries have companies operating in other countries that are basically serving their home country's interests, plausible deniability. Pretty common plot element in spy movies

I’m sure that defense will hold on court. s/

in the 1970s chinese classmates felt chang kai shek and mao both spied on them. they said they sent phoney 'students' who already had degrees to infiltrate. and the communist spies are easy to spot photographing falung gong activities, they usually have no pock marks on faces or clothes, expensive leisure clothing.

Did you understand what was meant? Then what is the issue?

> encourage Chinese people to join the government, and integrate into the mainstream society.

So infiltrate and conquer from within. Any American citizen with ties to this organization should be tried for treason. Enough of this bullshit.

Careful there - Reddit is owned by a Chinese company.

Well, I'm not sure if it technically is. That's why it's secret. I'm sure that all militant industrial nations run covert foreign gestapo like this. Ours is called the CIA and they definitely 100% run organized operations in China.

Correct there's no violations of any US laws hence there's no grounds for charges so they can continue to operate. As you can see from the articles they're operating in broad daylight and have been careful.

How about you leave that decision to the DA.

r/fucktheccp

As a Chinese person, I highly doubt it is true. Like if I am in the states and get harassed by them, I’ll call 911 lmao.

This is a daily mail article guys try to remember to take it with a grain of salt 🙃

I respect the double down

Lol this is quite a conspiracy. They don't have that much influence here. They don't go after people unless they're starting movements/protests.

Your friend just didn't want to talk about it.

I guarantee you the CIA, NSA, DHS, etc. monitor overseas Americans and will show up and harass you a bit if they perceive that you’re engaging in “anti-American” sentiment. They already illegally do it on US soil, I can’t imagine why the wouldn’t also do it on foreign soil where they aren’t subject to US law.

So What’s your point, the Chinese are not spying on us because Singapore has a consulate here too?

Yeahs

I would believe it. If I recall, the Tibetan community living in NYC for example was explicitly warned about infiltration, spying, and harassment from the CCP who wants them to believe they are not safe to speak freely even here in the US

Have you looked at a map?

Head spymaster Beverly Drangus

This is like every government 101, literally text book behavior, not exclusive to China

Absurd to be blind to the horrible track record the US has on human rights at home and abroad

My point is that its not unheard of for cities to do this.

Thanks lol

If the Chinese government is monitoring this sub, can you please stop spamming me with voicemails every day. I got my Chinese visa in 2015, enough already!

“ If they know English, they'll naturally gravitate towards American news sources which are obviously pro-America.”

Not anymore. American news lies too much these days. While China has issues, American news almost never focuses on those. The issues they report are also often blown out of proportion for propaganda needs. Sometimes they translate things incorrectly out of malice too.

We don’t want to talk about it with American because Americans don’t know anything about Chinese politics. Most of you have an extremely stereotyped understanding of China and having a conversation with you guys about it is really tiring. Imagine trying to explain Tolkien’s world to someone new in 10 mins. It simply can’t be done.

This is not true. In my experience, most Chinese Americans who immigrated before the 21st century are very political, you just don’t really hear about it cause we don’t really talk about it outside our community. The Chinese community in America has traditionally always been strongly anti communist and pro ROC. It’s why even today, you’ll still see more ROC flags than communist flags in Chinatown (you’ll probably see extra amounts of them rn since double ten day is coming up). I’ve grown up and lived in different Chinese communities across the country and this has always been the case. You can see this in our media too (created and published by Chinese in America), it’s overwhelmingly anti CCP and pro democracy

Of course, things are kind of shifting now. The CCP is trying to influence the politics in our overseas communities by doing things like setting up organizations like this, funding family/hometown associations, and paying people to set up pro communist rallies (there were lots of these in 2019 during the HK protests). They’re also definitely surveilling us, a friend of my dads got a phone call from the Chinese police asking for tips about a political post he shared online (even though this guy is an American citizen, lives in Brooklyn, and immigrated over 30 years ago). I see more communist flags in the Chinatowns with new immigrants now, but I would say most of the Chinese community in this country are still strongly anti CCP

Canada has some crazy issues with Chinese influence. CSIS (sort of like the FBI/CIA of Canada) has implied that China has taken over some municipal governments and even cabinet positions in BC. There's the whole money laundering scandal, which a component that isn't touched upon much is that it's China laundering the money and using it to fund their activities in Canada. There's a very deep conspiracy there. And I'm sure similar things are happening in the US and other countries.

One of the things China does is try to take over housing, because they view control of housing as being a strong influence over local politicians.

Its cause our real estate companies buy up the rest and charge ridiculous rents. They love the scarcity.

That's not what I've seen, most older Chinese parents tend to go through the "break up" syndrome, where after some time they begin to romanticize the good memories and slowly forget the reasons they had for leaving, the "cultural bubble" doesn't help either, think of it this way: If you moved to China today 10/20 years from now you will remember USA as the one in 2022, and thats gonna be your perception of it, because you are not a participant of the everyday small incremental changes happening every day.

Next to our office these Chinese people built a building and since then none of our phones gets signal??????

Chinese Americans in NYC Chinatown financed the overthrow of the Qing, the foundation of KMT and the Republic. There's even the KMT office on Mott street. The Chinese Benevolent Society aka Chinese School on Mott by its own rules only supports the Republic of China, the KMT is one of the main member of the benevolent society. The Chinese ideology war has been fought clandestinely in Chinatown since the civil war ended, but it was mainly the KMT doing the work on the republic side, the current DPP admin in the Republic is more insular about the global Chinese community since they're focused on primarily the Taiwanese identity and rarely interact with the Chinese American community. The KMT and CCP both expressed the intent to represent all Chinese from around the world when they were formed.

With more recent immigrants from mainland china arriving and the KMT fall from power in Taiwan, things are slowly shifting towards the CCP side. Wechat and Chinese media supporting the CCP views have become the dominant source of news for many older Chinese in the community.

Still sucks.

Yes like I said, things are changing and the CCP is gaining more influence, but in my experience the community here is still overwhelmingly anti communist and pro ROC. Everyone around me holds these views still

Btw ROC does not equal DPP and vice versa, I’m talking about the original ROC/KMT values like 三民主義 and the idea of an eventually Democratic China. DPP really is not that popular here

Blah...blah...blah.....nonsensical posts.

This is like pretty much always happening with any authoritarian regime. Look at what Iraq had in Manhattan…

Spacing is inconsistent in English on Chinese names. Chang Le is a place in China. For example Hong Kong has space, while Beijing doesn't, hence inconsistent

I walk by this place every week. Wild if this is true.

Being untrustworthy and being foreign propaganda are two different things.

isn't that the job of the feds not the cops?

I’m sure the cops could take care of harassment issues too.

The CIA propaganda writes itself at this point.

US has killed their citizens and their families with trial-less drone strikes overseas, don't be dense

It's this circular logic that everything [foreign country] does is uniquely bad and different from anything bad that the US does, where the former is because that country is inherent bad and the latter is despite the US being inherently good. There is no amount of horrible shit the US can do that will dispel this notion for some people.

Does not make it okay. All of them need to cut this shit out

I agree, to /u/beamstop23 he most likely knew you would disagree with what he has to say and so he chose to opt out of talking about it because it wasn't worth offending you or jeopardizing the friendship over political stuff.

Well, I guess in light of Obama’s drone war, Chinese surveillance and oppression of its citizens throughout the world is perfectly acceptable.

I've simply disproved your claim that the US "don’t monitor Americans overseas"

I think this is sensationalism. Its the police dept of Fuzhou city that helps with renewal of drivers licenses while people are overseas.

Its not a provincial level police of Fujian province, nor the national police of rhe PRC.

One of the biggest group of Chinese immigrants in NYC are from Fuzhou.

How is it secret? they a freaking sign on the building. Track dissendent from a city police agency with no way of enforcement.

Its like stationing NYPD overseas to help with making reports of wellness checks while travelling overseas.

My claim was that they don’t monitor and then threaten their families back home. If you honestly believe there’s any kind of parity between what the OP is about and the way the US monitors it’s citizens abroad and threatens them then I don’t know what to tell you.

> they don’t monitor

how do you kill someone with a drone strike if you haven't monitored them?

My neighbors always talk how advanced and safe China is compared to the USA. I told him he should go back there if he thinks it’s that great, he was not happy.