How

this sucks, not the first story I've heard like this

anyone have this with GooglePay (I use google pay)?

whatever happened to The Token?

Your guess is as good as mine.

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It's almost as if letting everything directly charge our credit cards isn't the best or safest option.

Metrocards work fine. Adding OMNY as a secondary option would be nice, but completely replacing Metrocards with OMNY seems like a solution in search of a problem.

It also doesn’t help that finding a vending machine to refill that accepts cash seems to be more difficult than finding a needle in a haystack

That’s why I prefer the physical OMNY card. Works like a metrocard that automatically refills itself so I don’t have to deal with those garbage metrocard vending machines that make me dip my card 49 times before it reads.

I'm not sure if this is why, but often times credit card purchases have initial pending amounts. like when I buy gas i typically see a $200 hold until the purchase is processed.

Obviously that seems like too much for a transit swipe, but it could be that OMNY is trying to authorize you for up to that amount.

I haven't had this issue with Google pay.

I exclusively use Google Pay for the subways and buses. Never had this issue.

Where did you buy yours? I have looked in every retailer since OMNY launched and I’ve never seen them sold

I got it at the Duane Reade right by Herald Square

7/11

I see you're in Astoria, the CVS on Steinway has them.

how long have you been away from the city? jesus lol

I’ve had zero issues. Not sure what to tell you.

Edit - just to add the pain of missing a train because the machine dispensing a metrocard took a while no longer haunts me.

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>It's not possible to keep technology running forever.

Sure it is. What would stop us? The wheel is about 6,500 years old. Is it time we phase that out, too?

As they say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

There is nothing worse than change for the sake of change.

That happened to me as well. Someone ordered food (2 orders) with my card that I use for the subway. Took the bank 1 week to take care of it.

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I have a degree in engineering and I'm currently working as a software developer for a large bank.

Do you have any experience in engineering, software development, or anything remotely relevant? Or are you just saying stuff?

Metrocards work fine and there is absolutely no reason we can't keep metrocards running "forever".

If you think we can't then please enlighten me and explain the technical hurdle.

In reality, there is none. OMNY is "change for the sake of change". It's plainly kinda stupid.

Never a problem with Google

I’m European and i have used apple pay in nyc for the subway and mine does the exact opposite. None of the fares get written off, free subway!

I never allow the MTA access to my bank account. Just get the OMNY card at any Duane/Read Walgreens and add your secondary credit card to it and load up anytime via phone or computer before you head to the station. If you lose the card, no big deal. You can cancel it immediately or replace it with a new card and all your values gets transferred to it.

Phased out in 2003.

Tokens sucked because you’d buy a 10 pack and some schmuck co-worker would “borrow” one and never give it back before you ended up tokenless on Friday afternoon.

But if you had a good slug, then…

How do you refill the OMNY card?

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Probably better to wait until the resolution with a clearer explanation of what happened before dropping FUD bombs for clicks.

This is a whole lot of opinion. The MTA has long since provided rationale and data supporting the claim that their antiquated fare collection system is costing a lot more than it should, and is cutting into profit. Service & maintenance on ancient ticketing machines is costly, who would have thought. Plus having to offer customer support at many stations in the event the machines fail, which they do and often.

Transitioning to a cashless and contactless fare system is plainly not "change for the sake of change" and this is just a nonsensical claim, considering better transit operators throughout the world have either already implemented it or are in the same process as the MTA.

It's fair (no pun) to raise eyebrows at the implementation cost, though. Just like everything else OMNY rollout was a huge one-off cost and massive boondoggle.

There are many articles like this one.

https://www.gothamgazette.com/index.php/archives/610-mta-moves-toward-a-smart-way-to-pay-fares

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Ugh I see so many people saying this and it's making me paranoid bc I only use Apple Pay! Is there anyway you can report this to the MTA?

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Wow. Don't even need to though, the above response is unbelievable and cringeworthy as someone also in software engineering. Seems like a troll but it's all good and is par for the course on reddit.

>Who is maintaining these ancient systems?

Employees of the MTA, presumably.

​

>Security patches?

That isn't a full sentence. Anyway, security patches get released as new security flaws are discovered. A system that gets fewer updates is actually less prone to requiring regular security patches than a system that's constantly changing. If anything, the introduction of OMNY will probably result in tens or even hundreds of times more security patches being required for the MTA's systems than if they'd just stuck with metrocard! Concerns about security patches are an argument in favor of sticking with what's tried and tested, not trying something new.

​

>How does it interop with modern hardware?

Why does it have to? Or are you one of those tech bros who thinks that everything should be "IoT" and my microwave and toaster should regularly be getting firmware updates over wifi? Ugh, can't stand that mindset...

​

>Who is making old supported hardware?

The same companies that have always been making it. If they go out of business, there will be sufficient financial incentive for someone else to step up to the task.

​

>How much does keeping this working cost over a new system?

Depending on the cost of the upgrade... likely, much less. Plus, cost isn't the only factor to consider. The default implementation of OMNY (using credit card or smartphone with NFC) offers far less privacy than a metrocard. You can't buy an OMNY card at every station the way you can buy a metrocard; you'd have to go out of your way to do so.

​

>Will payment processors allow it?

They've allowed it so far. And they allow much older systems to operate. Why would they object to it?

If there's anyone here who is "confidently incorrect", it's you.

I have it linked to a credit card and it autofills to $40 when it dips under $10.

You can also refill them with cash or card at stores that sell them. Eventually they’ll be vending machines.

Good ideas here

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Having done this, it's so cumbersome and lacking basic amenities (like the ability to remove payment methods or use transit benefit debit cards to autofill the OMNY card) that it's easier just to use an old fashioned MetroCard until they get the new vending machines in the stations.

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You can try to write off that lack of knowledge as a "lack of will". Then again, for all I know, maybe it's both.

Have fun embracing every new technology as change for the sake of change, and see where that takes you. I'd rather live in a world where I can go to an MTA station, buy a MetroCard with cash, and use it right away.

NYC's ignorant embrace of OMNY is one of the (many) reasons I'm happy to not be living in NYC anymore. Sixteen years was enough for me.

This is not an Apple Pay issue. Your card details were compromised

You can absolutely remove payment methods. I use the browser to go to the OMNY site and log in.

If you're using issued metro cards from your employer, that's a different beast. I had that when I used to work for the city services.

Generally the fare cards were awful and most of the turnstiles couldn't read my fare card as the magnetic strips started to wear out (unlimited monthly)

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If you can't tell clear satire apart form real technical advice then it seems like a waste of time to try to communicate with you.

Then again, if everything you read seems disagreeable to you, then you start to disagree with everything.

There’s this device you can buy that clones signals. Anyone nearby could have picked up your transmission and cloned it. I know it works with rfid credit cards, might be the same for Apple Pay.

No idea what you're on about.

>Hopefully you get a reality check and realize being an insufferable self aggrandizing tool won't actually get you anywhere before it's too late.

Are you projecting your own failures? Did this happen to you when you were younger, so you just assume that everyone else will have the same miserable experience?

Well, it's okay! Keep doing whatever the city tells you to do. If that's what you've been doing all your life, it might be hard to kick the habit. So I have some sympathy.

Have fun following the crowd and using OMNY, lol.

Yeah sometimes the OMNY readers don’t acknowledge transfers at train stations that should have them

Apple pay or apple card? I wonder if using the apple card would have helped. (assuming you used a card with Apple pay and not the allowed card, with some extra security.

Just because it was an MTA charge doesn’t necessarily mean your card number was swiped while using the MTA. Just that the thief used it for the MTA. I tend to use Apple Pay attached to a credit card. Never had an issue. Apple Pay doesn’t use your cards actual number. It randomizes it, so even if there is a scanner nearby the thief shouldn’t be able to grab the card number. Most likely, your cards details were stolen somewhere where you physically swiped the card, be it at a merchant who didn’t take Apple Pay, or an ATM with a skimmer attached to it.

> You can absolutely remove payment methods. I use the browser to go to the OMNY site and log in.

This is what I do and I can't remove them! Support was even stumped, although this was a while ago (summer 2021) so maybe they fixed it.

> If you're using issued metro cards from your employer, that's a different beast.

Nah I mean the debit cards that are connected to the account your employer deposits an elected pre-tax amount into. Could easily load the card with my personal CC, but asked the TPA and they said transit benefit debit cards can only be used at ticket vending machines. They won't work with online payment providers, or at least not with OMNY.

The operating system is OS/2 from IBMand they pushed off the support for it in 2001. It’s a stable legacy system but long term it’s only good tillJanuary 19th 2038 because it’s a 32 bit based. Not to mention the cost to keep up the old outdated metro card machines that break down is costly. This will cut costs and ensure future proofing of the structures since it’s upgradable

> get written off

They just write it off

Okay. Thanks.

Does it transfer from bus to train and vice versa?

The OMNY card works the same way as using your credit/debit/phone/smartwatch, you will also get a free transfer within the two hour window.

Source in 2022 that mentions this?

With Metrocards, you can walk into most stations and purchase a card anonymously, with cash, and use it right away.

With OMNY you simply cannot do that. You can either pay with smartphone or credit card (easily tracked, any chance of anonymity is lost) or otherwise you have to go out of your way to find a Duane Reade or other retailer that happens to sell OMNY cards. There may not be one anywhere close to the station. Even if there is, it's definitely not as convenient as having a machine in the station itself.

If NYC cared about its citizens and didn't want to inch towards becoming a police state, it would realize that the "upgrade" (IMO, more of a downgrade) to OMNY removes this functionality--and removing functionality should not be a major side effect of any upgrade/update.

Also to add on to that, the fareboxes in our buses are becoming increasingly hard to work with, they aren't counting coins correctly in cases, they tend to jam easily and sourcing parts for them is getting scarce. I've seen fareboxes get removed/repaired/replaced constantly. They are so prone to error compared to when I started a few years ago. They can't get rid of them all fast enough. I had someone nearly lose their MetroCard in the fare box on my bus earlier, but I was able to tinker with it to get it out.

Why do you specify 2022? Would a 2021 source not be valid?

I use my transit benefit debit card to pay in my OMNY account. I suspect it probably differs between cards, but perhaps you should try again if it has been a while since you tried.

Because I read in 2021 that apple was aware of this, and fixed it before anyone was effected. Also apple is constantly updating for security. So without a recent source you are making this up

This is why I'm only doing the refillable MetroCard for now until I'm required to use my phone for payment. It's still beta software imho.

Wouldn't it be the express pay settings ? I read before that it's like it pays automatically

​

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212171

I’ve got the same issue as this person, and I use one of the big services for commuter benefits. It’s frustrating.

>I read in 2021 that apple was aware of this, and fixed it

2021 source?

https://www.pandasecurity.com/en/mediacenter/security/robbed-using-apple-pay/?amp=1

“The good news is that this hack does not appear to have been used by criminals yet. The loophole has been discovered by security researchers who are trying to find – and fix – problems before they can be abused”

>My card and online banking

I understand the card but why online banking?

Any chance you are using ING? Have some Dutch friends that visited and this also happened to them 😅

New Yorker here. It’s frequently delayed a few days for me, but I always get charged.

This. Thieves can’t lift card details via Apple Pay, so it’s more secure than a regular contactless card.

This doesn't say they fixed it!!

Lol okay

Something tells me you haven’t actually had a glitch with Omny and you’re just afraid of change

And the only possible explanation is the subway?

It’s not at all

Do you also have omny enabled or linked to your cards? I've had issues where it states a card couldn't be used due to lack of payment, my card always has money. I just deleted omny and just use my phone's nfc to pay

It had never happened before until I started using my debit card for OMNY.

The flaw is in NFC itself. Apple can’t fix it I don’t think. Also makes GPay and SPay vulnerable. (Unsure about this)

Edit: making it clear i am unsure

Worry not friend. Take a look on the OMNY FAQ. The roll-out of OMNY includes physical cards which are currently available from retailers as you mention, however, as MetroCards are phased out they will bring online new machines which dispense OMNY cards. They will work the same whereby you can pay cash or credit card. It'd be illogical to remove MC machines, no one wants to "have" to go to CVS to buy their card and reload it manually at a cashier, it's just that they wanted to get physical OMNY cards into the public hands a bit sooner before the machines are ready.

You don’t even know what a write-off is.

What card do you have? I have an EdenRed benefit cards and it works. Add it to your account for auto-reload. I've read there is sometimes an issue with the zip code but it's possible to get it to work

But they do. And they're the ones writing it off!

and who says farther down in this thread that he doesn't even live in NYC anymore

Here is your 2022 source. I won’t post the specific device that does this.

It doesn’t work for Apple Pay. Hence why you said “might be the same”. It’s not the same

Apple Pay uses unique codes for each transaction, so even if someone got all the information for a single transaction, it’s not useful for following transactions: https://9to5mac.com/2016/08/23/comment-apple-pay-security-one-time-codes/amp/

https://youtu.be/aCP27_vquxQ

Optum. Different TPA unfortunately.

Tried it every which way. It just won't work.

I've never seen this show. It looks pretty good.

Btw, everyone I know that "owns a business" uses write-offs that way. This is what NY has taught me.

there is a huge reason and it’s that the MTA doesn’t have in-house resources to keep it running. It’s not like they built this from the ground up, it’s using other companies’ software which they don’t support anymore.

I can’t believe that you’re an engineer who doesn’t get this.

But I can believe you’re an engineer who would be incredibly pedantic about “can’t” versus “unable to in any practical sense.”

Which bank do you work for?

Okay

That’s because the system has to authorize your payment method before the cost of gas fill-up is determined. It’s not like at a register where if your card is declined they can just take stuff off, the gas is already in your car. For a pay as you go transit tap there wouldn’t be a pre-authorization charge because they’re charging you the full cost up front, either it goes through or your card is delclined

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If it’s Apple Pay, MTA wouldn’t have access to your bank account

Oh OP🙄🙄 Why would MTA have a $200 because you used Apple Pay. I only use Apple Pay for transit and have never had an issue. And I’ve only ever seen $2.75 pending charges, no holds. Between this and the people trying to beat fare evasion charges, Y’all stay having issues.

It’s been over 2 months lol, pretty sure now that those rides were free.

Yes! ING debit card! It only worked on the subway though, everything else did get charged.

Because when I called my bank, they said that it was an Apple Pay transaction at a specific time. Even though I hadn’t used ApplePay that day

It was Apple Pay. Maybe Apple card would have helped, who knows?

Not sure. Sorry to hear this happened to you.

No, it was Chase

What does does FUD mean? It would be easier for me to wait, if I was returned my money, so I can go on with my life. Not all of us have it like that, financially

Not sure; I’m only going by what my financial institution conjectured when they told me it was an Apple Pay charge on a time and date that I didn’t use it 🙄🙄 How about you do what is working for you, and I will do what I can to never find myself in this predicament again.

Was it a debit or credit card?

This can be such a pain in the ass, especially if you have a lot of other payments connected to the card.

Debit. Oh, It has been. I was wondering why my card had declined when I was trying to pay a bill, and then decided to review my transactions.

No; when I would use ApplePay, I would just tap and go. This was my first time experiencing an issue like this.

Lol. Unless you took my money, I don’t understand why you’re invested in gaslighting my experience. Either way, had this not happened, I would have probably continued to use ApplePay to pay for my rides.

> Debit

Yeah in general never use a debit card for any reason except to withdraw cash. Use a credit card to pay for things instead.

Apple Pay has option to create a one time use code or what have you that they claim is fraud proof idk

This isn’t an MTA issue. Your card information was stolen bud. Your info can be stolen just about anywhere you use your cards.

Yep. This is not an MTA issue. (Source: I build apps).

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So the key is to be European

Usually, these kinds of articles are released after the company fixes the security vulnerability. The company actually works with the security researcher and gets them to hold off blogging and publically reporting the bug. Companies like that because then there are no zero-day exploits, and researchers do it because that industry is entirely reputation based, and if you tick off enough companies, you’re out of a job.

Agree. Always link your Apple Pay to a credit card. If you link it to your debit card you will have no way of getting your money back. Only use debit card to get cash at an ATM… it’s very dangerous and you can did have your bank account drained. A credit card would have allowed you to deny the charges. I’d suggest unlinking your debit card from Apple Pay for all transactions.

I had the same issue with google pay, but only for the cost of a subway fare and cancelled the card immediately (I was out of the state at the time). I don’t fuck around with omny anymore. I’m sorry you had this issue too.

there’s actually a video on YouTube of someone who is able to hack Apple’s wireless pay, but the rig to do it is so complicated that it would never happen casually in real life. In the video there’s like an open laptop, and a scanner up against a phone and it takes like a full 30 seconds for it to be processed.

And the company makes a statement that they fixed the bug. Not here.

I mean you aren't really offering any "advice" until you know what really caused the problem. Once you know the specific problem, you might offer advice that people can actually use. Right now its just adding uncertainty.

Thank God I don’t need to take the MTA anymore.

I feel like this happens to everybody somewhere at some point. I got compromised at a gas station atm in LA, also had some funny business here in NYC, always got my money back. You should blame the ppl that stole your info, not the subway

If you are using your debit card, you need to get a credit card. This way, when a skimmer or thief manages to get your card number they can’t drain your checking account. They take the banks money instead. You won’t be broke while the credit card investigates. I learned this the hard way after my checking account was drained twice by thieves. Debit was likely skimmed once at LaGuardia because my checking was drained while i was on vacation and once more at gas station. Never use debit/credit at the pumps by the way. Always go inside. Skimmers love putting their devices on the pumps. I use credit for everything these days, and if I MUST use my debit I have a separate, fee free online checking account that I only keep a hundred or so in. If a skimmer grabs that card number, they aren’t getting much money. If opening another checking account or getting a credit card aren’t options, most banks have toggles in their apps to turn your debit card on and off. Keep it off until you are about to use the card yourself.

I see your point. The only time I use ApplePay tends to be for MTA, which was why I thought I was being helpful by telling people to be careful. For most purchases, I either use Paypal or the merchant’s app to pay bills or make purchases.

No issue with my Google Pay. The only oopsies I had was when I move too close to the readers. Usually when I exit a bus and my phone or bag with my wallet in it was too close, or exit a turnstile and somehow hover my phone as I exit. Thankfully, I disabled transactions if my phone is locked, so the reader just gets an error. I also have an RFID blocker in my wallet.

Thanks for the advice. After reviewing the comments, I will look into getting a credit card. Having quite a bit of student loan debt made me hesitant with ever getting a credit card, but this experience has definitely changed my mind!

There was something mentioned back a year or so I think. Don’t stand too close to the tap to pay things if you have express transit on for Apple Pay. It’ll just keep paying without you knowing

Just a word of advise... Find a new payment method and by new a traditional payment method. If that's a problem then you are not earning your income.. That's why!

The trick is to treat it like cash rather than a loan. Pay it off completely every month, or sooner. This will prevent you from overspending, so you’ll never pay any interest, plus you’ll benefit greatly from all the points

Well since congestion pricing isn't in yet, I guess MTA has to resort to CC scamming 😅

Make sure you track what you spend on a credit card and NEVER spend more then you have in checking to pay it. Pay in full every month. You avoid interest on credit cards this way. For a first card, look for something with no annual fee and some cash back rewards. Both Discover and Capital One have pre approval pages that won’t hard pull your credit and tell you ahead of a full application what cards, if any, you can get. You can eliminate some of the risk of being declined for a card this way. If you have an IPhone Apple Card is complexly risk free to apply for. You only get a hard pull IF you are approved and you accept the offer

Having to use a phone will be elitist for lack of a better word. All can’t afford one or know how to.

This is the answer.

True but I prefer that MTA not remove funds from my bank even if it's through a intermediary vendor like Google or Apple Pay. I rather use my second credit card where any wrong transaction can be easily challenged and easily credited.
NFC based transactions using phones or debit cards is too risky for me. I haven't had any issues thus far with Omny Cards yet. All of the trip history is audited and accessed through the omny website

Seems like you’re invested in gaslighting everybody else who has had no problems with Omny whatsoever and whose lives have become that much easier because of it. Just admit you’re just here to try and sow fear about Omny and actually did not have any unauthorized transactions from MTA related to Omny.

Worst argument that’s getting tiring at this point. You don’t need a phone to use Omny. There are many options. Also not sure why we’re running the transit system for the .01% of people who don’t have a phone or card. OMNY has simplified the transit experience for most people.

I have not (nor have no need) gaslit anyone. Most of my responses have been to answer questions, or to advice/constructive criticism. The majority of the people who have responded to this post have been civil, and have either provided their experience, provided advice and/or constructive criticism, without invalidating what I am going through. Of the people who responded, you are the only person who has had difficulty discussing your experience without minimizing and negating people who’ve had different experiences.
I know this is Reddit, but life is going to be filled with people who experience things differently from you. With sincerity, please handle whatever your personal problem is with people who happen to have different experiences and opinions from you

No because OP is either lying or illiterate. Apple Pay generates one time tokens. It’s physically impossible for their bank account to be compromised from using Apple Pay.

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Then why do all the people that stop short in the turnstile are all people using their phones to pay?

The janitor at my job is a 60 year old without a smartphone and is dreading the day he'd be for forced to go without the MetroCard. Some of the tech bros in these threads don't understand people with learning disabilities or poor people who do not have consistent mobile phone service, internet access, or safety to go and refill their Omni cards at the limited locations. Everything is being developed for upper income people's convenience with little thought to the proletariat who keeps the place running in the background.