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ostrich_collateral t1_j8ev2k2 wrote

My wife and I (30's) are planning to move out of NYC this fall, and Philly is one of the cities we're interested in, enough that we are planning to come down next weekend and take a few days to explore.

I'm born and raised in Southern Brooklyn, so being part of a dense, walkable neighborhood is important, especially since I have zero plans to drive (so subway/rail access is vital). However, although my wife likes walkability, she's really mindful of living in a neighborhood with less population density, and ideally more easy access to nature. For reference, our current neighborhood population is about 30k/sqm, which is more than any Philly neighborhood I can see by zip code. I know this isn't exactly a science, but I'm trying to narrow this down to neighborhoods that might be <15k/sqm as a start.

This really ends up boiling down to either Northeast Philly (along the Delaware River, ie: Wissinoming, Tacony, Holmesburg, etc.), Northwest Philly (Manayunk, East Falls, Mount Airy, Chestnut Hill, etc.), parts of South Philly, and farther out suburbs (which I don't really prefer).

We'd probably rent for a year or two ($2k/month max) before buying (would like to stick around $350k but could go up to $500k in a perfect situation), to make sure we actually like living there before we fully commit. I don't care to have a big house, but my wife really wants the detached single-family home with a small backyard kind of deal, and I know in a lot of neighborhoods that detached homes will just not only be not in the majority, but more expensive.

Would love thoughts on which neighborhoods would be a good fit in terms of balancing population density/walkability, and whether I'm heading in the right direction in terms of the areas of Philly on our radar. Thanks!

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nichtschleppend t1_j8f01cq wrote

Pretty hard to square walkability with low density, but East Falls/Manayunk sounds about right.

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ostrich_collateral t1_j8feebm wrote

Absolutely. There's obviously a pretty strong correlation, so there's some give and take finding the balance of fairly walkable but not super crowded. For sure going to check those neighborhoods out. Thank you!

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mmw2848 t1_j8f8kpg wrote

While you can survive in Northeast Philly without a car (I didn't learn to drive until I moved to the burbs at 25), it's not ideal. I'd probably strike it from your list.

Will your wife have a car, even if you don't drive?

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ostrich_collateral t1_j8ffecv wrote

Yeah I think the only way Northeast Philly works is along the train line; I'm sure it's possible to make it work, but it's pretty limiting.

My wife will have a car which is definitely helpful, but I would never want to force her into driving me around a bunch, so I think access to transit will always be a high priority. I work in a standard white-collar career and would prefer a hybrid job if I had the option, so I'd probably be commuting into the Center City at least a few times a week.

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hethuisje t1_j8i9ukj wrote

I don't know what kind of work you do, but be aware that jobs in Philly are not nearly as abundant as in NYC. If finding a job is a prerequisite for moving here, depending on what you do, it could take a while. My job is pretty specialized and it took me a few years to find the right one and move. And if I wanted to leave my current job, I'd likely have to move. There was a Pew study on this a few years ago... the "next job" is a big reason people leave Philly; they come here for one position but when it's time to move on, can't find another. Something to consider if in-person work is a goal for you.

Edit: found the link later. https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/issue-briefs/2019/09/whos-leaving-philadelphia-and-why "36 percent of movers with a bachelor’s degree or a higher level of education cited jobs as their reason for relocating, three times as many as cited any other [reason for leaving]"

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TheBSQ t1_j8jighl wrote

This is the experience of both me and my wife. very limited job.

But on the flip side I was talking with a friend who took a Philly job and is trying to expand his team here and he keeps telling me about how when he did this in NYC, he had lines of highly qualified people lining up, but here, he isn’t getting many applicants and they tend to be lower quality.

That’s just a single anecdote, but I know for me and my wife, the jobs we did get, they acted extremely grateful that we took them and spoke openly about struggling to find people.

I get the feeling that it’s less dynamic all around. Less quality openings and less quality applicants.

Along those lines, me and many of my “moved here for a job” friends have had numerous conversations about how much easier it is to be considered “great” here.

we all were fighting tooth and nail to in NYC to be considered average, and here it’s really easy to be the company superstar. Good place to be a “big fish in a small pond” not that Philly is that small of a pond, but at least for the industries that my social circle works in, Philly isn’t the the city for that industry the way NYC is for finance, Bay Area for tech, LA for Hollywood, etc.

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Motor-Juice-6648 t1_j8mx9qc wrote

Except salaries can be considerably lower in Philly. This is probably the REAL reason they can’t get that many qualified people. They don’t pay enough. This is particularly the case for staff at the universities in Philly and city government. City of Philadelphia apparently has lots of vacancies.

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ericds1214 t1_j8feoyb wrote

Check out Passyunk Square/East Passyunk while you're here. Typical demographic seems to be early 30s. Lots of restaurants, some bars, grocery stores, and it is right on one of the main subway lines. I just moved here a few months ago and love it. We rent a 2bed/2 bath for 1750 a month. Also, I have a car but it is more of a nuisance to have than convenience. I can get just about anywhere in the city by train or bus, and that includes the many excellent parks that are here.

Edit to add: detached homes are not common in this part of the city, but some townhouses may have backyards or at least patios. It's a good place to live short term and get a feel for the city before deciding on a more permanent solution.

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ostrich_collateral t1_j8gdil3 wrote

Will definitely check it out, thank you! I had that area in mind (and other neighborhoods that are maybe too crowded but centrally located) to see even though I know it's not a long-term living option, because it feels useful in getting a sense of the city overall.

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TheBSQ t1_j8jl5v5 wrote

You named a few areas, and the vibes / attitude / politics of those areas can vary by quite a bit. Without knowing you, it’s hard to recommend which is best, but it’s hard to imagine how some of these places end up on the same list.

Your price points will make buying into places like Chestnut Hill or the nicer parts of Mt. Airy hard, unless you take on a project or get lucky. Both are also much less urban than the others, but each have their little commercial areas that are walkable. But, to get to downtown by transit, you’d need to take regional rail. It’s nicer than subway/El, but less frequent and costs more. Wissahickon is an absolutely gorgeous piece of nature though. There also actually a small neighborhood called Wissahickon up by Manayunk that maybe you’d want to add.

One issue with the Northeast is that if your plan is to take the El as your transit option to downtown, you’ll pass through the part of the city most ravaged by opioids on your way between the the NE and center city. you’ll definitely see some shit during those stretch of stops.

I saw no mention of West Philly. Some parts are rough, but parts closer to the universities are popular, and it’ll definitely have more trees than, say South Philly.

Definitely visit. There’s some neighborhoods that have great walkability, restaurants, relatively low crime, etc. that lots of people love but can be a lot of concrete and brick with not much trees or much in the way of nature.

It kinda depends on how much nature you need.

Like will street trees, a city park, and the running path along the river cut it? Or do you need like legit Forrest / creek (like Wissahickon, pennypack park, etc.)

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Paparddeli t1_j8ftqrd wrote

You can see population density by census tract here: https://mtgis-portal.geo.census.gov/arcgis/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=2566121a73de463995ed2b2fd7ff6eb7

Most of the nicer parts of South Philly are 30,000 to 45,000 per square mile (a few going above 45). Under 15,000 per square mile and close to nature and close to rail is going to be hard. I'd say Mt. Airy or Germantown, but you are dealing with Regional Rail which is relatively infrequent (not like living along the Broad Street Line or Market Frankford Line).

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ostrich_collateral t1_j8ge7aq wrote

This is a super useful tool that I had no idea existed, thank you! It's so much better than looking at data at the zip code level, which is somehow too large an area and can include multiple neighborhoods with completely different layouts.

I just checked my neighborhood in NYC and it's about 78k/sqm so 30k/sqm feels like a ghost town to me haha.

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Paparddeli t1_j8i5c12 wrote

This tool is great, I agree.

Having lived in NYC for years, I can relate to the shift. You'll get used to the lower density though.

I don't know if 15k is a good threshold personally (too low) and maybe you'll discover that by looking at census tracts and Google street view that you could settle on a neighborhood with 30k for example.

Also, I wouldn't focus on single family unattached. There was a Washington Post article from a few years ago that showed housing typologies per city and Philly I believe has both the lowest proportion of single family unattached (even lower than NYC) and the highest of single family attached (either attached on both sides or just one). We're a row home city, there really aren't that many apartment buildings comparatively and a lot of the existing apartments are in carved up row homes. Even if you don't like townhomes (attached on both sides) maybe consider twins, which are homes that are attached on one side only.

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phillyneutrino t1_j8mw0p5 wrote

that's kind of tough because the detached house thing doesn't mix with the close to mass transit areas. Maybe like Fairmount close to city and close to the river and fairmount park but you won't find a detached house there. It looks like 21k/sqm.

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