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calvinistgrindcore t1_j06qbi8 wrote

I remember reading some pundit (maybe Matt Yglesias?) saying that no politician will engage with the traffic safety issue because it has "low ideological salience." In other words, terrible drivers come from all political tribes and so you can't make a wedge issue/culture war out of it.

In reality, if you're relying on enforcement to make traffic safer, you're too late. Every enforcement mechanism (including our boy's "mandatory 4k") is vulnerable to abuse. Some more than others, but all can be abused.

Our real problem is that our roads are designed for maximum throughput of cars instead of maximum safety of all users (not just drivers). So the best thing you can do is to support rational, safety-oriented redesign of roads in a way that promotes pro-social driving.

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PassyunkHoagie t1_j06r4to wrote

Last paragraph nails it! Take the decision out of the driver's hands. If roads are built with pedestrians and cyclists in mind, they will naturally restrict and regulate driver movements. That's also going to make it a lot more frustrating to drive around town which in turn leads to more people walking, cycling, opting for public transit.

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FruitKingJay t1_j071j2i wrote

north broad needs a massive road diet. the traffic lights every block aren't enough.

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theAmericanStranger t1_j06r2xm wrote

>So the best thing you can do is to support rational, safety-oriented redesign of roads in a way that promotes pro-social driving.

Any source to why this would override people's shitty behavior? (also, hands off our 4K boy, lol)

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The way I see it, a total lack of enforcement had led to a free-for-all mentality, and not just on the road. We need new people at the very top - mayor, police commish, totally revamp the police and disband the poisonous police union. That's a good start.

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prettylittlearrow t1_j06s4z8 wrote

If there's concrete blocking people from bypassing traffic in a bike lane or only one lane in each direction, you're forced to move with traffic. What we consider congestion--restriction of the speed of traffic flow--can actually make roads safer because cars have no option but to slow down.

Changing the physical design of roads is really the only way to (mostly) force people to drive carefully.

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theAmericanStranger t1_j06t2c5 wrote

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for less physical safety, separation of vehicular and other traffic etc. BUT, you cannot fortify and armor every block in the city, no city can. Enforcement has to be integral to traffic function, especially when flaunting laws seems to be rampant. Unless you're calling to make every single street in the city one way lined by concrete - good luck. And even on these roads people make turns, don't they?

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prettylittlearrow t1_j06tolz wrote

That's why I said "mostly". Yes, you can't use concrete and pavement to stop people from running stop signs or red lights or double parking. But slowing people with physical barriers can do a lot, and you definitely can do it on most streets. You can also block car traffic from streets entirely, which solves quite a lot of problems as well.

And by "can" I mean it's physically possible. Politically, maybe not, but I'd say that expecting PPD to consistently enforce traffic laws is also not politically easy either.

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theAmericanStranger t1_j06ux87 wrote

>but I'd say that expecting PPD to consistently enforce traffic laws is also not politically easy either.

Agree. This is why top priority (in a perfect world) should be to redo the entire police department. Most of all - keep safe out there!

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prettylittlearrow t1_j06vvyl wrote

I guess--what I'm getting at is relying on human enforcement of other humans (especially considering the deeply flawed nature of policing and public distrust ) is not always the best choice for getting better outcomes.

Especially with police, who have been given tons of responsibilities that they probably aren't capable of carrying out. Leave crime investigation and smaller-scale conflicts to them, and find other ways of deterring other bad behaviors.

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MoreShenanigans t1_j06rv6x wrote

> In other words, terrible drivers come from all political tribes and so you can't make a wedge issue/culture war out of it.

Wasn't the same thing true of cigarette smokers when it was more popular? Despite that, the anti-cigarette campaign was popular. Honestly it seems like a benefit when all political tribes have the same issue, cause polarized issues take 10x longer to solve.

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BasileusLeoIII t1_j06s0us wrote

> no politician will engage with the traffic safety issue because it has "low ideological salience." In other words, terrible drivers come from all political tribes and so you can't make a wedge issue/culture war out of it.

we're in a single party city. It's hard to demonize a political outgroup as the source of our issues with any intellectual honesty.

This line of political thinking makes perfect sense in larger elections, but we don't have an opposing tribe to hate here

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