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shillyshally t1_j1kn2o3 wrote

The entire context is that it is really cold. Usage is high.

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blowjob215 t1_j1konr2 wrote

Replying to shillyshally (#1,048,864)

"We do have some strain on the system," PJM spokeswoman Susan Buehler told NBC10. "We're seeing increased demand because of the frigid temperatures, but we are also seeing power plants -- that we are calling on -- having difficulty managing and turning the systems on because the temperatures are so cold."

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JennItalia269 t1_j1kow1m wrote

Generating stations are also having trouble due to the weather which is compounding the problems.

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carolineecouture t1_j1kqr47 wrote

I didn't get this. When was it sent out? I get other texts from PECO so they have my contact info.

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jdmoney85 t1_j1kqv9u wrote

I'm running everything on the highest possible power. I want to test the grid

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tomyownrhythm t1_j1kuvkn wrote

Well, Peco, my furnace stopped so space heaters it is. As long as you can power them!

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sexy_wash_bucket t1_j1kv38x wrote

Oh baby I got this. Energy lawyer here. This is caused by two different situations.

First is capacity issues. PJM electricity is sold on the “day-ahead” market, meaning that one day in advance, providers “bid” on prices for dispatch, and each bidder is dispatched in reverse order from least expensive to most expensive. But if the day-ahead market bids can’t accommodate the needed estimated capacity, PJM knows there could be outages.

The second issue is the actual transmission lines. Transmission lines have a “thermal constraint”: a maximum amount of power that can flow through without the current going haywire and electrocuting squirrels. On busy electricity days, more and more electricity demand through those lines gets them very close to their thermal limits, so utilities have to cut back or risk frying their lines. In a big city like Philly, constraints can be met much faster.

But (you say), shouldn’t they have backstops in place to prevent these issues? This seems foreseeable, no? Oh yeah. When one or both of these issues presents itself, PJM has to resort to “demand response” tactics: ways to change demand so it can be closer to actual supply. The most common demand response strategy is interrupted service. The gist there is that your contract with the utility allows the utility to shut off your power for a pre-allotted amount of time and rebate you for the time without power. Another is rolling blackouts, which will certainly not be employed in this situation because I wouldn’t think people want their homes to be 30 degrees with no warning. If interrupted service users can’t even account for the overblown demand, PJM’s got big problems.

This text shows just how much energy is pumping through our grid right now (and how worried PJM is about outages and blackouts).

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fzammetti t1_j1kvhzt wrote

Replying to Unlucky-External5648 (#1,048,912)

Yeah, damn right! I remember Paul's third letter to the Corinthians:

"And for whomever haveth electric heat, thou shalt turn thy thermostat down to 64. And lo, there will be much sheltering beneath blankets, loved ones bundled on couches... and though the Eagles may endure God's chilling winds, thou shalt be warned by the glow of big-screen TV's."

Or something like that.

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Is_that_your_wow- t1_j1kvtox wrote

Replying to NoREEEEEEtilBrooklyn (#1,050,017)

Gravity powered LED lights already are replacing oil lamps in places that use them. I'm just surprised no ones designed this along an elevator shaft.

Hiring homeless in food sounds like a good idea, but not sure if that's the best incentive or most productive workforce. Philly doesn't have absolute poverty. No one is starving to death, and the homeless mostly are addicts or mentally ill. Although paying people money usually works well, even for our poorer Philadelphian friends.

0

minesweeperer222 t1_j1kw7ij wrote

Replying to PCPenhale (#1,050,013)

Agree on all points. My unscientific observation is that there a lot more domestic "light shows" this year than in those past. I've seen at least 3 houses in my normal travels with full light displays synced to a radio station. This is up from my usual sighting of 0. That's more along the lines of what I was thinking.

0

Brraaap t1_j1l040c wrote

Replying to nderhjs (#1,049,966)

Probably has to do with the amount of the nation in unseasonably cold temperatures. Everyone's cold, so there's no excess production available to the grid

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Break-88 t1_j1l0jh8 wrote

The electricity usage is too damn high

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Booplympics t1_j1l0w7b wrote

Replying to minesweeperer222 (#1,050,125)

But lights in general are a fraction of the amount of power that heat uses.

Complaining about Christmas lights makes as much sense about complaining about cooking a Christmas roast in an electric oven.

The fact of the matter is that our electrical grid needs to be modernized. Everything else is just utter bullshit.

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NoREEEEEEtilBrooklyn t1_j1l2fhu wrote

Replying to clickstops (#1,050,403)

Not soup kitchen allowance. Really good food. And they’re free to leave whenever. Completely voluntary.

Also, in case people can’t tell, I’m joking. We should just have nuclear energy plants with supplemental solar/wind. Human hamsters would be too weird.

−9

lordredsnake t1_j1l2jsw wrote

Replying to Past_Cartographer230 (#1,049,265)

Electric cars are still a tiny share of the demand. On the other hand, more buildings are switching to heat pumps or being built with heat pumps from the get go. They're very efficient, but it's still electrical demand that wasn't there before. The price of natural gas is going up (and will continue to as we liquify and export it, which is accelerating that trend toward electric.

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jamin_g t1_j1l4cfp wrote

Replying to nderhjs (#1,049,966)

In the recent past, more and more people have shifted from combustion to electrical heat.

Heat pumps get less and less efficient as temps drop and require more and more electric.

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notFanning t1_j1l4hfe wrote

For added context, it’s not just PECO. I’ve got an apartment in York, and First Energy (big corp that owns MetEd and a bunch of other power companies) sent us a similar email this morning

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amal-ady t1_j1l5qdi wrote

Did PECO only send these messages out just tonight (12/24)? Because PJM was asking for this since the morning.

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Excellent_Insect_270 t1_j1l67xx wrote

Ok, this is probably a dumb question. But what can we do to reduce our electricity? Like more than just turning off lights, unplugging appliances etc?

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Genkiotoko t1_j1l8u16 wrote

Replying to nderhjs (#1,049,966)

I'd guess you're essentially right. Utilities likely didn't buy nearly enough generation on the futures market, causing a lot of last- minute purchasing for more generation. Power plants take time to heat up, especially in brutally cold temps.

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fergy80 t1_j1lbgo5 wrote

Replying to sexy_wash_bucket (#1,049,963)

For the first issue, couldn't they have seen this coming and purchased more power? If I'm understanding correctly, it seems like they screwed up even though they knew the storm was coming. And now they're asking us to make sacrifices for their lack of planning.

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sexy_wash_bucket t1_j1lbnui wrote

Replying to fergy80 (#1,051,956)

Sort of. The day-ahead market is heavily regulated on a federal level by FEEC, so every provider is required to bid in the market for all of their capacity. PJM can’t do anything to increase bids besides wait for a new plant to be built. But they can anticipate when bids won’t cover projected capacity demand.

Although (into the nitty gritty here), there’s also smaller scale one-state plants that actually fall outside of FERC jurisdiction that can add to capacity, but PJM has less control over them and PJM also factors them into capacity projections.

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Dismal-Ideal1672 t1_j1lqec8 wrote

Replying to jamin_g (#1,051,175)

This, but also how widespread the geography is. PJM is the interconnect for most of the Eastern seaboard. This let's them balance load across regions, but if we're all using more than usual, there's only so much supply that can be spun up on demand. That extra electricity will be gas generators usually, with a limited amount of continuous supply (and high cost).

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puddin__ t1_j1lrksw wrote

Weird, I didn’t get that text

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TheBSQ t1_j1ls02d wrote

Replying to jamin_g (#1,051,175)

In warmer climates, electric heating has always been common, and usually very inefficient forms, like electric baseboards.

What your saying is all true and it’s probably a factor, but I’d bet it has more to do with the fact that the cold really widespread and so there’s a lot of “warm” places using electric baseboard heating (and space heaters) than it is an uptick in housing using heat pumps.

And there’s also a bit of a mix where some heat pump systems have resistance heat backup systems for when it gets really cold.

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Farzy78 t1_j1lsnsg wrote

But yeah let's all switch to electric cars and electric heat pumps, no need to upgrade the grid we'll just tell people to conserve 🙄

−14

ten-million t1_j1lvwqw wrote

Prices for natural gas on the spot market have quadrupled this weekend. Given that a lot of our electricity is generated by natural gas it costs the electricity makers a lot more to generate. Electric prices are regulated, Gas prices are not. Generators are losing money for every kilowatt you use. "Please conserve"

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Unlucky-External5648 OP t1_j1ly8dk wrote

Replying to jjc157 (#1,054,152)

Yeah the one in conshohocken next to home depot is my favorite.

We generate too much trash. There should be compost piles every block. People should not buy products that contain single use packaging. We need to stop shipping water products via combustion engines. Need to blow up Nestle and the other 10 trash makers….

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felldestroyed t1_j1lzzbi wrote

Replying to sexy_wash_bucket (#1,049,963)

So the press release this morning was citing the power plants (which I assume are natural gas) not being able to run. How would this factor into what you're saying? Is it something like what happened in Texas with natural gas plants not be winterized enough to take days of negative temps?

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igglesfangirl t1_j1m199d wrote

I unplugged my Christmas tree. You're welcome.

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Imilkgoats70 t1_j1m3ckj wrote

It’s all the heat pumps trying to heat all the new McMansions that are 5000sq ft

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BearPhilly t1_j1maesz wrote

Maybe they should stop closing the nuclear power plants.

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nalgene_wilder t1_j1matiy wrote

The context is our nationwide neglect of critical infrastructure

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sexy_wash_bucket t1_j1md45k wrote

Replying to felldestroyed (#1,054,543)

Yup. Power plants can run into a lot of issues when it’s too cold. PJM’s are much more resilient than Texas’s, but that is a very low bar. If NG plants aren’t running, electricity needs to be dispatched instead for heating purposes instead of NG. That adds to capacity needs, which makes it even harder for PJM to meet demand.

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Wide_Riot t1_j1mdqpx wrote

And y'all want only heat pumps and electric cars

0

blodreina_kumWonkru t1_j1mi4ib wrote

Replying to sexy_wash_bucket (#1,049,963)

This is super interesting but weird. I get the 2nd issue, but I can't wrap my head around the 1st. Why do providers bid on electricity? We really treat power the same way do anything else that's bought/sold/re-sold? I feel silly asking this question, but for some reason that just seems bonkers to me that this would be the case to the point where providers could "run out" of energy to provide to people.

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jbug624 t1_j1mlfd4 wrote

So this wasn’t a spam/scam text?

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sexy_wash_bucket t1_j1mmgru wrote

Replying to blodreina_kumWonkru (#1,056,922)

Lots of boring judicial history there but the main gist is that we (the U.S.) created RTOs (like PJM) to ensure that every bit of electricity in a region was being managed by one overall regulator to maximize synergies. Every provider is required to bid (basically) 100% of their capacity on the day-ahead market, every day. If we didn’t force energy bids like this, providers could e.g. withhold energy until peak demand times to maximize profits, essentially giving an F U to people at non peak times and leaving them susceptible to blackouts. The bidding system is just the method that FERC employs to find a fair price to pay providers despite there being so many - but in reality, it’s just the chosen strategy to ensure all electricity being produced enters the market.

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nolandeluca t1_j1mn7no wrote

Yeah, the rich people still heating their massive homes, they can conserve first. 🤣

1

JDowling88 t1_j1mno2i wrote

Replying to NoREEEEEEtilBrooklyn (#1,049,404)

Especially in CA, the utilities are ramping up fire hardening (going ug when they can, replacing wood poles with metal where they can't) and, especially in Southern CA, have been doing this for years. PGE is well behind, and they've paid dearly for it.

But even in places that don't see widespread outages from weather, electric lines should be underground. This protects from local outages; and while initial costs are high, long-term cost is a fraction of the overall cost of replacing above-grade lines when things go bad.

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Frummage t1_j1mqfdv wrote

Replying to Is_that_your_wow- (#1,050,071)

Most homeless in Philly are families with children, and most are not on the street but in shelters or moving from temporary accommodation to temporary accommodation. The visibly homeless are a minority.

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PurpleAstronomerr t1_j1mqka4 wrote

I went through the Texas freeze so when I got this text it made me really nervous. I’m so glad we didn’t lose power last night. 😬

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Mysterious_Bobcat483 t1_j1mu1bd wrote

Better than rolling blackouts. Friends in the south were experiencing that.

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owenhinton98 t1_j1mxn8f wrote

Replying to Frummage (#1,057,970)

A good chunk (pretty sure it’s a majority) of “visible homeless” aren’t even homeless at all, just looking to score…you can tell because the ones that ask for change to “get a bite to eat” will decline food offerings and clearly only wanna score

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Glystopher t1_j1n019g wrote

Haha, I was sleeping during that time period, didn’t see the text in time, sigh, oh well

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galletadeacido t1_j1n6ad4 wrote

Eh just as well I got out of town for Xmas. That should help the grid a bit 😂

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nolandeluca t1_j1nkqya wrote

Honestly if they power down 601 north broad, we won't have internet but it will release megawatts back into the grid

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Outofmilkthrowaway t1_j1nxy5d wrote

It's funny, my mother in law got this text, but I didn't. We both live in Norristown. We have an oil furnace anyway so electric usage is minimal. I think its like sub-1000 watts when heating?

1

FordMaverickFan t1_j1ocmhz wrote

Replying to nderhjs (#1,049,966)

There has been a growing trend of people dumping natural gas appliances and an increase of electric car sales.

Texas gets all of the media coverage but the grid in the northeast is the oldest in the country so we're in for a rough couple of years.

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jamin_g t1_j1ra29k wrote

Replying to Triplsticks (#1,075,941)

Yeah so, in most situations, at least that I encounter, the replacement when we are adding a heat pump is usually replacing an oil or gas system, or a previously uncontrolled space.

If you find a heat pump that uses less electric than an oil furnace, I don't know, I'll streak across Link at the two minute warning.

1