OldSchoolHardcoreG t1_ir19jvj wrote
Reply to comment by MyNameIsNonYaBizniz in How to Live In A World That Makes No F*cking Sense: Nietzsche and the Search for Superhuman Laughter by simsquatched
The problem for those who have reached the “I am not suffering I don’t really care”.
Is that then leads to this, “this makes no fucking sense I’m not suffering. What does XYZ even mean”
And then you end up where Nietzsche is referring too. This sense of confusion and meaningless, God is dead. Why am I alive? What am I alive for? WHO am I alive for? Does anything I do matter?
MyNameIsNonYaBizniz t1_ir1d0m5 wrote
When you suffer, you cant even begin to search for meaning, you just suffer and all your thoughts and energy are spent on getting out of suffering.
When you are not suffering, you have all the luxury in the world to Nietzsche or Camus or Stoic your way into whatever meaning you prefer to keep on living.
Not suffering is the prerequisite for everything else.
Honestly, most people are not in a hurry to find any deep meaning to life, they just wanna live healthy, happy and enjoy the finer things of life, most die happy this way too.
Only philosophy major and philosophiles spend A LOT of time on this, lol.
greencycles t1_ir1tg12 wrote
So we should strive to eliminate suffering? No.
Meaning is derived almost exclusively from the human struggle against suffering. Even most art reflects the artists suffering (ptsd, trauma, writer's block, boredom, mental illness). There are degrees to suffering and EVERY HUMAN experiences it to some degree.
Community is the most effective structure standing firm against suffering. Community sends a message to the individual that "we see your struggle and it's valid, you're not alone against suffering, keep going."
Eliminating suffering is a human impossibility. It's as important a concept as joy or sadness or intelligence. Everyone suffers.
Drakolyik t1_ir44nsm wrote
Even if we cannot eliminate all suffering, we should be striving to eliminate as much suffering as possible.
Much like how we view Utopian ideals. Or the idea of perfection.
You've assigned your own meaning to suffering that many other humans disagree with, while acting as if your opinion is an objective reality/fact. That's a heaping ton of hubris.
Everyone suffers but some suffer unnecessarily while others inflict it on those around them despite having the capacity to reduce or eliminate a lot of said suffering. In my life experience, people that espouse beliefs like yours tend to be extremely privileged or very religious or both. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
greencycles t1_ir74un2 wrote
Meaning and purpose is derived from the struggle against suffering. I never argued to "let suffering win" or "don't even bother struggling against suffering."
A suffering-free utopia is an impossibility. It's incompatible with human nature (at this stage in evolution). My argument is: The best we can all do is support each other throughout our unique individual (temporary) struggle against suffering. It appears that humankind, as a group, will ALWAYS have to struggle against suffering.
Tip: you're allowed to disagree with me, but please avoid the name-calling because that behavior makes me wanna stop reading your response.
goodcommasoft t1_irfvxt7 wrote
I think the ultimate world is one in which we continue to move forward cancelling suffering left and right while at the same time suffering in how hard we’re working to reach that better world. Anything outside of that is just a cherry on top.
MyNameIsNonYaBizniz t1_ir65zwk wrote
Antinatalism, Efilism and Promortalism would say its impossible to get rid of suffering so we might as well not exist, blow up earth and spare future generation from suffering. lol
greencycles t1_ir85ihx wrote
I'd never go to the extreme mephistophilian conclusion that "we might as well not exist." Beauty, love, truth, mystery, adventure, are all too magical to just permanently destroy.
[deleted] t1_ir8yfw1 wrote
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[deleted] t1_ir1s2kw wrote
I think through suffering you can actually learn more.
Melomaverick3333789 t1_ir34yni wrote
Love this comment
No_Bison_3116 t1_ir1qv6i wrote
I would say that the world seems to make no sense due to the contradictions of Capitalism described by Karl Marx.
Karl Marx's theory of historical materialism states that the source of human progress and historical change is not to be found in “legal relations” or “political forms,” but rather “in the material conditions of life”; By this Marx means that the economic relations of human beings determine all other relations in that society. Material survival rather than the development of rationality and spiritual thinking forms the fundamental basis of human endeavour in each historical epoch.
Since , rational thinking is not the basis of society under Capitalism nothing seems to make sense.
Dutch_Calhoun t1_ir1x7e9 wrote
We're so suffused with capitalist thinking we don't even realise it. Interesting to note how ubiquitous is the argument that suffering can be transcended (which I take to mean: have enough money so you don't die of poverty), and once that obstacle is surmounted, meaning is something you choose at will, like any other consumer product.
AetherPaul t1_irs0hme wrote
I would like to see you plug in these variables with aspects of your life to see how the theory pragmatically condenses itself into real world values and experience.
But its like, why does the formation of an economy have to govern our social values? Isn't it better for us that it's unscripted? Free market also = free social, which is where self knowledge, values and the orientation of our values come from when we're free to rationalize/discern the market medium, and make better market strategies. The danger away from Capitalism is that the socio-economic world becomes Procedural, then we would have to contend with pre-written social values, and follow scripts of reform/conduct.
I think what people tend to believe in is that, well, maybe the social world can be written as a policy or a way of conduct, and it can be good. But who's good at that? who studies that? Its not knowledge of a historian, a politician or a law maker, that's like Psychology, Human Behavior, Philosophy and Ethics, and maybe even more natural to people who are well behaved and well socialized.
It's not just the axioms of these schematics of philosophy but who can instantiate them, and how?
Grinagh t1_ir1wmll wrote
I always find Nietzsche too ego-centric in the sense that becoming the person you want to be is obfuscated by questions about the self instead of creating meaning for yourself.
Kinda like putting someone in Minecraft and then, them asking, "what's the point?" You need to find out for yourself.
Solo_Fisticuffs t1_ir29pkd wrote
ive always interpreted it as asking the question about the self and then continuing along with the self anyway. like saying whats the point of minecraft but you still play and do random stuff til you find your favorite aspect of the game
hey-i-made-this t1_ir29mrk wrote
>I agree, however thats why i like him.
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>Idealism vs materialism.
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>What influences what? our Ideas, or the world around us. Most would say both. Dialectic materialism.
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>I like the ego-centric ideas as I believe its a huge part of my and other philosophical ideas. I believe in this complex confusing world nature comes first. People that derive their ideas from the material world (nature) i think is fact. And you should ask "whats the point" long before you are influenced.
VitriolicViolet t1_ir2vmer wrote
not everyone ends up there, i was raised to understand that life is what we make it, i literally never went through a period of existential dread and i dont get why so many do.
from the start i was told life has no purpose per say, maybe this is an issue for people who were told there is some inherent purpose?
next 'sense' in what context? from where i stand the world does make sense in that there is no point, we reproduce and we die. our societies are contradictory and bizarre but also make sense in the context of what we are and history.
Quentin__Tarantulino t1_ir3x4d7 wrote
I think religion plays a large role here. Many people are brought up thinking that the purpose of life is to live in a certain way and worship a certain god, with a goal of going to heaven after death (or something similar.) When they eventually shed that religion, they’re left with the question: what IS the point then?
FenderSplinter t1_ir442c4 wrote
I'm with you about the role of religion in all this. In the education that all religions push onto people, especially young malleable minds, I suspect there really are 2 things pushed, namely first that there is a god, and all the contextual folklore that goes with it; and second, and more subtly but also more importantly, what is pushed/forced is a certain mental structure that installs a premise of thinking meant to be felt emotionally, that without that god or any other forms of otherworldly source of meaning, there is no sense/salute/"salvation". In other words, they install the programmed feeling that there is a fundamental lacking in humanity. Once this conditioning is installed, then religion self-perpetuates.
Looking at it this way, it makes sense why religious authorities everywhere are so inclined on getting involved in the local education systems, to the point of taking it over where and when they can.
An extreme manifestement of this mental conditioning sometimes shows itself through questions from theists when they ask and wonder sincerely how it is even possible for atheists to have an inner moral compass or ethical considerations, since they don't believe in god.
Sim0nsaysshh t1_ir2qw4b wrote
When I realised the meaning of life was what I chose my life felt fuller.
Neitzsches thoughts are in every person who really thinks, but you xsn sense the torture as well as beauty I'm his words
NecrylWayfarer t1_ir4eawu wrote
I feel like nihilism only survives because of a blindspot. Like if you are really that worried about the idea that maybe nothing matters, that means something does matter to you. I don't think things can stop mattering to people. I feel like it's an axiom ingrained in our biology. Things matter to us, and it's not our choice. To find what matters just ask yourself "what do I want?". And then to the answer of that question ask "why do I want that?" And then keep asking that to each answer until you come to the point where you have no answer as to why you want it, it's just a feeling that you want it, and it's beyond you. Then that must be the axiom ingrained in your biology. And that's what matters to you.
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