Colin_Mangan OP t1_itymm3x wrote on October 27, 2022 at 7:21 AM

Reply to comment by ConsciousLiterature in Naturally Fine Tuned for Life - A Defence of Metaphysical Naturalism by Colin_Mangan

The idea is that the values of the universal constants have to fall within a very narrow range in order for life to exist. If they were different by even a tiny amount, then life could not have emerged. What is meant by "fine tuning" is the fact that these values even permit life to begin with.

ConsciousLiterature t1_ityxfum wrote on October 27, 2022 at 9:57 AM

>The idea is that the values of the universal constants have to fall within a very narrow range in order for life to exist. If they were different by even a tiny amount, then life could not have emerged.

Given different values of those constants even more life could exist though. It's not like these are the only values suitable for life.

Also if god wanted to create a universe for life and set the values why did he make it so that the universe is basically empty?

fschiltz t1_itzbjq2 wrote on October 27, 2022 at 12:31 PM

Also what makes life so important? Maybe with a different fine-tuning, there would be different beings with even better characteristics than "alive" and "conscious", characteristics that we can not even conceive.
Better in what sense? I don't know, but saying that it seems that the universe is fine-tuned for life is like drawing a target around where the arrow landed.
Ok, we have a universe where there is a tiny bit of life and consciousness, but was it really the aim, or is it possible that had the values been different, some other being would be saying "wow, it seems that the universe is fine-tuned for "shlubagazorp", something that we cannot understand?

Also, isn't it possible that there is more than one universe and that we just happen to be in one where life is possible, since we could only happen in one of those? Wouldn't seem very fine-tuned in that case, would it?

ConsciousLiterature t1_iu0r2ou wrote on October 27, 2022 at 6:22 PM

>Also what makes life so important? Maybe with a different fine-tuning, there would be different beings with even better characteristics than "alive" and "conscious", characteristics that we can not even conceive.

Exactly. God could have created humans so we can live in empty space, he could have created other creatures that do.

>Ok, we have a universe where there is a tiny bit of life and consciousness, but was it really the aim, or is it possible that had the values been different, some other being would be saying "wow, it seems that the universe is fine-tuned for "shlubagazorp", something that we cannot understand?

Universe seems to be fine tuned for empty space and black holes to me. It seems to favor nothingness.

>Also, isn't it possible that there is more than one universe and that we just happen to be in one where life is possible, since we could only happen in one of those? Wouldn't seem very fine-tuned in that case, would it?

This is the cosmological multiverse theory.

Colin_Mangan OP t1_itzg7ak wrote on October 27, 2022 at 1:09 PM

Roger Penrose (I think it was) used a similar arrow analogy. If we do draw a target around the arrow, the conclusion is that, if the arrow hand landed anywhere else (and we drew the target there instead) it wouldn't allow for life. The idea of other beings often gets raised but the issue is that atoms wouldn't bind together or gravity would rip beings apart.

The multiverse is indeed what some physicists suggest and, if the foundational assumption of the FTA is granted, a multiverse can be inferred.