its-saute t1_iy1j1iw wrote on November 28, 2022 at 1:06 AM

So over the years as I have watched the Terminal develop I really had hoped it was going the direction of a very similar development in DC called Union Market. Union Market is really popular, all local shops, packed during the week and on weekends, it is in an industrial district and the building itself is much like the Terminal. I’m not sure why the Pittsburgh development wasn’t able to go in this direction Union Market

SWPenn t1_iy1l6q2 wrote on November 28, 2022 at 1:24 AM

The deal was that the Penn Avenue merchants/grocers/bakers/ fish markets/cheese shops did not want the terminal to be filled with shops in direct competition. That's why it's not like Union Market or Reading Terminal. Stores that would be in those markets already line Penn Avenue.

its-saute t1_iy1lyra wrote on November 28, 2022 at 1:30 AM

Ok…we’ll then I’m at a loss as to why everyone is complaining that chain stores are coming in? If the local businesses didn’t want any more local competition there…then what were they supposed to put in there…?

SWPenn t1_iy376qy wrote on November 28, 2022 at 12:07 PM

That was my thought, too. It's been well documented over the years that any plan to make the Terminal a public market was a nonstarter and the Penn Avenue merchants would have fought it. So the developer looked for other businesses that would add to the variety without taking business away from Penn Avenue.

DreadSocialistOrwell t1_iy2blm1 wrote on November 28, 2022 at 5:07 AM

Chain stores are there because McCaffrey flat out lied to the URA and toyed with local businesses like White Whale while attracting chain stores

https://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/white-whale-allegations-only-part-of-ongoing-issues-with-the-terminal-development-project/Content?oid=19420979

pAul2437 t1_iy1re9a wrote on November 28, 2022 at 2:12 AM

It was a market years ago and failed.

DreadSocialistOrwell t1_iy2cokr wrote on November 28, 2022 at 5:18 AM

What you're failing to tell people is how neglected The Produce Terminal was by the URA before McCaffrey came in with all his promises. I doubt you actually stepped foot in there when it was a market. (Hint: it was a shithole)

So stop saying that it just failed. It couldn't attract businesses then because it was a bad investment for those businesses. It's a bad investment now because it's hilariously overpriced because the URA has a shitty history of going with developers who just want to gouge or take advantage of the older low costs to flip and sell.

Pre-redevelopment, the whole thing was setup to fail and be easy to shutter once a developer signed on to the project.

The building was falling into disrepair, the URA only offered month-to-month leases (not sure for how long it was, but the URA ran the building since the 1980s). So really, how does any business make at least a yearly plan or multi-year plan if the URA is going to suddenly not allow a lease renewal and you have to move your business?

Only parts of the building were open, probably only the parts that were structurally sound, so that if part of the building did collapse, nobody would be killed.

The whole thing was a joke 10+ years ago. That's why it failed.

u/PGHENGR

pAul2437 t1_iy3e5h4 wrote on November 28, 2022 at 1:20 PM

It wasn’t a shithole lol. The main problem was lack of infrastructure

. It wasn’t financially viable because of incompetence and/or didn’t make business sense.

PGHENGR t1_iy27fhm wrote on November 28, 2022 at 4:27 AM

Thank you!!! Came here to say the same thing.