Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

ttylyl OP t1_j73awos wrote

Reply to comment by Iffykindofguy in Future of The Lower and Middle Class Post-Singularity, and Why You Should Worry. by ttylyl

I see a lot of people assuming that when mass scale unemployment hits the government and businesses will work amicably to help the people. I do not see that happening, at least not at all at the federal level. It could lead to mass starvation.

6

ihateshadylandlords t1_j73k7rb wrote

You also have to consider that if the masses don’t have money to buy products, then the companies won’t have money either. If companies have no money, then they’ll go down too. Not to mention they won’t be able to buy off politicians if consumers don’t have money to buy anything.

Plus if we get to the point where we can make AGI and/or ASI, that might be used to replace executives and politicians.The elites are distanced from AI and the potential problems, but I don’t think they’re immune from it.

6

ttylyl OP t1_j73yfkv wrote

They have no need for money if they own the means of production. If their goal is to gain power, and they have infinite AI power, we only represent a threat right? Or am I misunderstanding. In the scenario I am imagining money would likely be abandoned or heavily altered. Or, rich wouldn’t need money, money becomes a thing of the poor, a kind of food stamps.

2

ihateshadylandlords t1_j74ukn2 wrote

What good is owning the means of production if you have no customers? Companies exist to maximize shareholder value. Owning a bunch of inventory that no one can buy doesn’t do anything for shareholders.

Also even if a company gets too powerful, they’ll just nationalize it or break it up like they did with Standard Oil.

1

ttylyl OP t1_j74w3hf wrote

The issue I’m seeing is that the populations would be in two and a half classes: unemployed low skill people, employed high skill people(things needed after AI, so like notaries, maybe doctors, entertainers, people to work on/monitor AI) and AI owning people(large investors in openai, connected people, etc.)

Eventually they will realize that using their ai/robot labor power to feed house and fund the unemployed lower skill people doesn’t help their goals, so they will spend less over time. This will happen faster with competition, the more you spend on the non-ai owning class, the further you get behind the people who don’t.

If this continues the unemployed former working class will be functionally pushed from society, they won’t be able to use their work as a method of negotiation, like labor unions etc. our lives will be at the whim of people who already clearly don’t care if we’re poor. What happens when they don’t need us at all?

1

ihateshadylandlords t1_j74x1gi wrote

The issue is companies having the AI, but no one wanting to buy the products and services from said AI. People need income to buy the products and services generated by these AI companies. They can decide they don’t need the people, but then who will need their services at that point?

2

[deleted] t1_j7448oy wrote

[deleted]

1

ttylyl OP t1_j746uzy wrote

Exactly. Money will become a thing of the poor, like food stamps. Slowly lowering, year by year, with average citizens having zero control of their situation or the outcome of their lives.

1

ihateshadylandlords t1_j74uwm6 wrote

Thinking a company can exist without money is…laughably wrong, at best. AGI is a tool, it’s not a genie that can create something out of nothing.

1

[deleted] t1_j76q616 wrote

[deleted]

1

ihateshadylandlords t1_j76y8v7 wrote

Companies still need money to function though. Wages/salaries aren’t the only expenses a company incurs.

1

[deleted] t1_j77wemk wrote

[deleted]

1

ihateshadylandlords t1_j787aj2 wrote

Search any company’s income statement and look at the various line items for examples.

1

[deleted] t1_j7c4am8 wrote

[deleted]

1

ihateshadylandlords t1_j7cfjsm wrote

…you can’t search the internet or think about expenses companies incur daily? I’ll give you one, cost of goods sold.

You’re being intentionally obtuse because you realize you’re wrong. Like I said initially, companies need money to function.

1

Iffykindofguy t1_j73bnxf wrote

If the GOP is in control youre right, they wont. If the dems are they might. Like the covid unemployment. It doesn't make any financial sense for them to let people die off and risk riots and civil war etc.

4

ttylyl OP t1_j73bzlw wrote

That’s true I didn’t think about the military. I hope enough of them would risk going hungry and stand up for us Instead of working for the state and getting paid. I imagine if a general or two decided to do the right thing TONs of solders would join in to help. Finally an American war for good!

0

Iffykindofguy t1_j73c3tg wrote

uhh brother Im not talking about the military. Do you not know how many bodies there are in the US?

2

ttylyl OP t1_j73chzg wrote

Yes, but the hungry masses against the military would be impossible. Riots are no threat to the military, they could easily quell rebellion in the states. The only way the war could be won is if a significant portion of the military fought for regular people not AI owning class. Civil war in traditional sense.

5

Iffykindofguy t1_j73coj0 wrote

This isnt a book, it wouldnt be one side against the other. It would be mass chaos and violence, there isn't a unified "one percent" acting as a unit. Theyre also all out to kill each other as well. It just makes more sense to pay people off then burn everything. The amount of money these people has is staggering.

2

savedposts456 t1_j73gchg wrote

Exactly. A UBI would be cheaper for the elites than dealing with widespread violent chaos. There’s some famous quote that says something like people are only 3 missed meals away from violence.

2

ttylyl OP t1_j742ce6 wrote

Tell that to every population avoidably/intentionally starved in the last century 👀

It can and does happen

2

ttylyl OP t1_j73d6jm wrote

What you describe sounds like a book.

Corporations already work together to raise prices at the same time, especially in medicine and housing. This leads to death and homelessness. Profit is clearly places before human life. Why would they fight each-other and lose money? It is the owning class vs the leasing class, this is a country of usery.

1

Iffykindofguy t1_j73dj8p wrote

Why would they fight each other and lose money? Because theyre short-sighted humans. Like is more chaotic than you seem to believe. Why would they let everyone else die off so there's no one to buy their shit?

1

ttylyl OP t1_j73eh3x wrote

Because they have no need to sell, they have all the power they need without human labor, and so human labor will be cut accordingly. There will be a huge class of people useless to the labor market. We have this today, we call them homeless. That is how we currently treat people who cannot participate in the labor market. Why will it suddenly get better if corporations no longer need us.

Again this is in a scenario where ai is allowed to replace humans en mass, it’s assuming governments don’t find a way to amicably deal with the unemployment.

3