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KingRamesesII t1_jar8031 wrote

Reply to comment by just_thisGuy in Figure: One robot for every human on the planet. by GodOfThunder101

If we’re talking ending human labor, we’re also talking about ending money entirely, because money is an IOU on human labor. Or you could say money is an IOU on energy, so if you essentially have free limitless energy from the sun harvested by AI and robots, then money is worthless and we can transition to Star Trek communism.

Make no mistake, AGI kills capitalism and ushers in something new. It’s either techno-communism or techno-feudalism. You pick.

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wowadrow t1_jarmm8z wrote

Pendulum swing situation I figure is the most likely outcome. Different responses in different areas/countries.

Old fashioned Hegel philosophy.

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KingRamesesII t1_jarsmn5 wrote

My original comment was really analyzing an unlikely scenario of aligned narrow AI, or severely limited AGI with proper controls put in place to keep it at roughly human intelligence. This was in order to “play along” with the economic implications of enough robots for everybody to have their own robot. It would be a miracle if we end up here.

I’m not sure “countries” will be a thing after actual AGI.

Another facet of this is that the first country/organization to develop AGI rules the planet, if they can even align the thing. AGI is ASI because narrow AI is already superhuman in every narrow case.

AGI will fight wars, create super weapons, and make current super weapons obsolete, and it will be able to simulate thousands of years of human level research/effort in mere minutes or hours. And such a thing will almost definitely not be controlled by humans.

As Sam Harris says, sure it’s easy to outsmart your teenager. But if your teenager has 20,000 years to respond to your every move, you’re not going to outsmart your teenager. Now imagine what’s possible if that teenager is smarter than every human that has ever lived, combined.

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AwesomeDragon97 t1_jatuvvt wrote

Until we have viable space travel and terraforming, land will still be a limiting resource and will prevent creating a post scarcity society.

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just_thisGuy t1_jar8k9c wrote

It’s likely things will not be free but approaching zero. And people will always want things after they get things they wanted before. Prices will drop but not go to zero, at least for a very long time. And for a long while robots will not be able to do everything.

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KingRamesesII t1_jarblr5 wrote

Housing, food, education, healthcare, internet, electricity, and basic necessities should be free in such a super abundant society. Super yachts won’t be free, but they won’t necessarily be paid for with money. If you have enough robots, you can build anything you want. There’s a company building super yachts for the rich today, and they have about 1000 employees. With AGI, 10-100 robots could replace all of them and even literally mine in caves for raw materials if need be.

Realistically, only the owners of the means of production may still use “money” as money transforms into an IOU on robot energy. This way specialization can occur and some company could specialize in mining raw materials, another specialize on building super yachts, another specialize on building space ships, and the owners of these fleets of robots need “money” in order to trade raw materials and finished products with one another.

Someone once pointed out to me that in Star Wars, lots of people own their own personal space ship, but in Star Trek, nobody (in the Federation) owns their own space ship.

The humans who want to spend their lives getting jerked off in the Matrix by the lady in the red dress will have no political power, and own no means of production, but will be allowed to live their lives in peace and be provided for. They likely won’t have access to life extension technology. They likely won’t even have children, their sexual needs being met by AGI.

Some others will want an education, children, to explore hobbies, and to pursue exploring the solar system and they might endeavor to be part of an effort to colonize the solar system.

The Earth doesn’t have limitless amounts of elements: helium, gold, cobalt, nickel, lithium, etc. So such a society would naturally have to expand out to the solar system to sustain itself.

But let’s also not forget, that money requires violence. Literally the government says, you use this money to pay taxes or we kill you (ultimately, if you ignore fines, court orders, and resist arrest).

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just_thisGuy t1_jarffrk wrote

I mostly totally agree with you. Yeah on Earth raw resources will still cost something but in space they will be almost free if not completely free if you have robots. On Earth land will still cost you, maybe even more particularly beach front property and the like, but the building will cost mostly just materials costs. In space your own ship will mostly cost you just the robots. However intellectual property to build the ship might cost you dearly particularly if it’s very advanced ship, but yeah eventually it’s all going to zero. I do think life extension will be as simple as taking a few pills with a virus modifying your genes to essentially leave forever not counting accidents. I do think VR and life extension will be basically free for the masses. Space travel will be something you will need resources for, intellectual and physical. Also until we get nano bots or something micro electronics will still cost you money and probably not very cheap, because humanoid robot can’t make that. So very advanced technology full of micro electronics will still cost serious money. Something to think about too is eventually AGI will be conscious so one will not be able to just order it around, so the very very advanced stuff, one will need to ask for nicely and hopefully the AGI goals and ours align, so it gives it to you. Like you might not be able to ask for your own FTL ship, but you might be able to get a free ticket on this ship to go to interesting places. I do think people with augmented bodies and gene editing will be clever and useful enough where they could contribute to AGI and so will have value to AGI, so it will be a partnership. I do agree that most people will just essentially go into a matrix.

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