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DyingShell t1_iv9vxse wrote

Reply to comment by apple_achia in Becoming increasingly pessimistic about LEV + curing aging by Phoenix5869

shh we don't talk about REAL issues on here, only fantasies.

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apple_achia t1_iv9wy11 wrote

Funny you should say that. On my post regarding climate change and singularity, I got into a lengthy discussion with someone who claimed that having a true metaverse, a simulated reality people could secede into where they could act as a God and experience whatever they want, would solve the climate crisis. That the ultimate fantasy IS the solution. presumably the thought was that if this happens, enough people would opt into it that we’d be able to save enough resources to stop climate change.

So shallow. No acknowledgment that this would just be offering an extremely pleasurable form of suicide to the masses. No acknowledgement that the people most likely to take such an option would be the least materially well off, and thus the people causing the problem the least. No mention that this wouldn’t affect any existing power structure and so even if it was Jeff Bezos himself that chose to digitally castrate himself into experiencing only a simulation of reality, someone else would just take his place.

I think many people on this sub are just technological optimists unable to reckon with the heightening crises of industrialized society, and anxiously awaiting a savior. Maybe there will be a technological singularity before climate change makes that next to impossible, but the idea the result of that will just be a fantasy VR machine is absurd and shallow.

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Frumpagumpus t1_ivjp3be wrote

it seems pretty obvious that replacing business trips (and i know you are a doomer so this will trigger you, but vacations) with vr would be a massive ecological boon.

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apple_achia t1_ivjrl99 wrote

I’m a doomer, but you’re realistic for saying metaverse will save the biosphere from abrupt change. Yes, very realistic solution, have fun with that

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Frumpagumpus t1_ivkgl78 wrote

bruh the biosphere has been through quite a few abrupt changes. and it's been around a long time. some of them quite a bit worse than modern co2 emissions.

human civilization is changing even more abruptly tho.. kinda the point of this sub...

and lastly you intentionally re phrased what I said just to disagree with a point I didn't even make lol.

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apple_achia t1_ivkhrm3 wrote

The last time the atmosphere changed in composition by a comparable amount to the last 250 years, Cyanobacteria was colonizing the ocean and photosynthesizing, injecting O2 into the atmosphere and causing one of 6 recorded mass extinctions. Now granted, this was at a fraction of the speed, it took place over a few thousand years, a lightning flash in geologic terms, and changed the composition by a smaller percentage make up.

So yes, the biosphere has seen changes in the past, even within humanities timescale. But not by this amount and this abruptly. To say there have been “worse” ecological changes in the past is obfuscation of the crisis we’re in.

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Frumpagumpus t1_ivktbls wrote

what are you gonna do about it, aside from brigading this sub?

covid lockdowns didnt put much of a dent in co2 emissions.

personally i think there is 0 chance you could put a gov into power either democratic or authoritarian which would reduce emissions as much as you want

realistically that leaves geoengineering. which would probably be a lot easier to do with AI.

oh yeah and of course VR would help too but you just cant help but shit on people who are trying XD

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Artanthos t1_ivc9c2o wrote

Fascism as a response to climate driven immigration seems much more likely than a complete collapse.

Desalination plants are already capable of solving water shortages in the American West, just not at a price people are currently willing to pay.

Vertical Farming and cultured meats are pretty much climate independent. Again, not at a price most people are currently willing to pay.

It’s going to be the 3rd world countries that face collapse.

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[deleted] t1_ivcmsa5 wrote

If 3rd world countries collapse, everywhere else does too. The lives of the wealthy first world folks is completely reliant on cheap labour and slavery in poorer countries. Without that, everything wealthier countries rely on completely collapses too. Welcome to globalised capitalism; a vast slave system.

There’s no corner of the globe you can run away to and be safe from the ensuing political and economic instability. Most likely this instability leads to large scale warfare that puts our risk of nuclear war way way up there too. Perfect storm

I don’t really see human civilisation lasting long under that scenario which is why tackling the lions share of carbon in the 2020s, before it snowballs and becomes an order of magnitude harder, is crucial

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Artanthos t1_ivee32z wrote

  1. If 3rd world countries collapse, the availability of cheap labor increases. To the extent that society allows immigrants.
  2. Automation is already reducing reliance on cheap labor. This is especially true in agriculture and food services.

If anything, the wealthy will soon reach a point where they no longer need laborers. At least not at anything resembling today’s volume.

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