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its_still_good t1_jboaqg9 wrote

Greatest female skier of all time!

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This_aint_my_real_ac t1_jboi4ok wrote

I'd definitely argue greatest skier of all time.

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Jibjumper t1_jbpk2yp wrote

Maybe for racing. Candide Thovex is probably the greatest all around skier. Shane McConkey probably deserves a shout there as well.

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This_aint_my_real_ac t1_jbq230h wrote

Guess need to narrow to Alpine Skier/Racer

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Jibjumper t1_jbq5p93 wrote

Which is a 100% justifiable take. For me the reason I clarify it that way is that racing is a discipline of skiing, but being a good racer doesn’t necessarily translate to being a good all around skier. It’s tough because while there are some big mountain events, being the best skier is subjective. In order to be considered in that conversation though you have to prove yourself across several disciplines imo.

For example I know and have skied with some incredible park skiers capable of doing triple corks, that couldn’t ski trees if their life depended on it. Or racers that are comfortable at 70 mph, but couldn’t go off a jump bigger than 10’ without being destroyed. To me skiing is about being able to start at the peak, pick a line, and navigate it all with style. Whether that’s cliffs, groomers, jumps, powder, crud, bumps, trees, and everything in between. That’s where Candide comes in because there’s really no one out there capable of going as big, as fast, and with as much style, on the most diverse terrain possible as he can. He’s the guy that every pro skier in every discipline will stop and say “how the hell did he just do that?”.

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24PercentMajority t1_jbqbfba wrote

Most world cup skiers are going to ski well on terrain that isn't just gates. I'm not talking tricks, but just terrain. There's probably some flat country slalom racers that this doesn't apply to, but racers at this level live on the snow and and good at far more than just skiing gates. Many are capable of laying waste to big mountain, in the off season.

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Jibjumper t1_jbqdpq6 wrote

Oh I’m not denying that, or saying racers can’t ski other terrain. I’ve been skiing since I was 2, grew up 15 minutes from Park City, had friends growing up that were professional skiers/boarders, worked in the industry for 15 years. I’m not trying to be uncle Rico saying I could throw a ball over them mountains. I would say I’m a very competent skier, and because of that I recognize how huge the gap is between what I can do versus a pro.

That doesn’t change the fact that some of the best big mountain skiers could be top competitors in racing if they tried, but doing what Candide does is in a different class. It takes a certain kind of person and skiing is so much more than gates, so I’m not knocking what they do, but race results only mean you’re the best racer.

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BM_3K t1_jbrn5sx wrote

One, there's no way to objectively determine who "the best skier" is overall, so it's really just a silly topic. On the flip side racing produces concrete results so deciding who the best ski racer is is a much more manageable thing (you did make a distinction between best skier and best racer here). Second, I really don't think many pro big mountain skiers could switch to racing and be competitive at a pro level. There is so much that goes into technique and skiing in a race course no matter the discipline requires you to be near perfect and then some. I just don't see anyone that hasn't been seriously training in race courses their whole life to stand a chance against pro racers.

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Jibjumper t1_jbrpo0z wrote

So I raced in high school, was on the mogul team, and skied park and big mountain regularly. I never took competition too seriously because I saw the gap between my level and the top .01% and didn’t care enough about those disciplines to push hard in any one direction. I was friends with a lot of skiers that were racers and I worked as a liftee on the night crew at Park City when the racers would do their training. I watched Sarah Burke’s crash that ultimately took her life and called it into ski patrol while working on Three Kings lift. I’ve been surrounded by ski culture my entire life.

Like I said not every all mountain skier could be a racer, but it would be easier for an expert non racer to get into racing, than someone that focused on racing growing up trying to get into big mountain/park skiing. When you know what you’re looking for it’s really easy to pick out who the former racers are from the lift than people with a racing background. Racing requires a different technique that changes your style and it’s hard to break those habits. I personally know people that switched focus to raving later in life and vice versa, and the general consensus from both groups is that it’s harder to unlearn racing than it is to learn.

It makes sense for something like car racing to consider the best driver someone that exceeds in racing (despite there being many types of driving), because cars are more or less designed to operate on a road/track. With skiing it’s different because you have the freedom to go anywhere and do anything. It’s a whole different beast to do things like drop a cliff, straight line a face in Alaska, or have enough control to throw a trick while skiing through trees. It’s much more subjective, but anyone that has some real experience skiing can pick out what a next level skier looks like. Racing still takes a ton of discipline and I’m not diminishing the accomplishment. Like I said being the best racer is just that, being the best racer, but it doesn’t mean they’re the best skier.

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[deleted] t1_jboo2dz wrote

[deleted]

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trouthunter8 t1_jbooyxv wrote

She has 2 gold medals. She's the youngest slalom olympic champion in history.

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[deleted] t1_jbouo4w wrote

[deleted]

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sickjesus t1_jboy7vt wrote

No one PM that dude goth tiddys. He doesn't deserve them.

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buerglermeister t1_jbp3yv6 wrote

Tell me you don‘t know anything about skiing without telling me you don‘t know anything about skiing 😂

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erbkeb t1_jboooaf wrote

Yea, the Olympics aren’t the pinnacle of most sporting events. This is akin to saying Pele sucks because he never won Olympic Gold.

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Jukervic t1_jboyb1o wrote

It absolutely is the pinnacle of most (Olympic) sports. Only the big team sports aren't

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reefsofmist t1_jbp0to9 wrote

It's not for skiing and that Olympics especially was shit for skiing

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buerglermeister t1_jbp46iw wrote

Olympics are definitely big and beijing was fine regarding the conditions. But overall globes are definitely valued the highes in skiing.

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BerriesNCreme t1_jborgkv wrote

I mean it is the pinnacle for her sport…it would be like if people said messi isn’t the GOAT because he hadn’t won a World Cup…which is exactly what people were saying before he won it

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mapoftasmania t1_jboz2kb wrote

It’s not. Winning the World Cup is the pinnacle. Olympic gold is nice, but it’s just one event.

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mapoftasmania t1_jboyvmf wrote

The Olympics are a single event. The World Cup requires you to win repeatedly. You don’t understand the sport at all. Probably never even skied.

Lindsay Vonn doesn’t have a high win rate at the Olympics either. Arguably she would still be GOAT if she hadn’t been injured so much.

Julia Mancuso won an Olympic gold. Heard of her? She never won a single World Cup race, medalled just 7 times. Good skier but not even close to GOAT.

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Bacon__99881122 t1_jbp9k2a wrote

Her father also died during this time period. This would mess with someone's head

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patsboston t1_jbomvg3 wrote

Greatest Skier of all time male or female. Technically she is so gifted. Bode Miller has said she is the best technical skier (male or female) he has ever seen.

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skinte1 t1_jbqw1cu wrote

That's all relative. Stenmark use to win by several seconds in his time because of his superior technique. They even changed the world cup rules because of how superior he was.

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patsboston t1_jbu5qrn wrote

Same with Shiffrin. Legit all the Women World Cup skiers study Shiffrin’s form because she is legs and arms above the competition.

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mapoftasmania t1_jboybyb wrote

Greatest alpine skier of all time.

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Jaraxo t1_jbpw45z wrote

Yeh have to specify Alpine. Too many different disciplines to ever define a single greatest overall skier.

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halbeshendel t1_jboq6ar wrote

Female? No. Just the best. Ever. At all. Of all time.

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elkourinho t1_jbqjulj wrote

Idk, Hirscher is probably the goat. On eye test and how dominant he was.

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skinte1 t1_jbqwj7l wrote

Stenmark is definitely the GOAT together with Shiffrin. He use to win by several seconds in his time in a sport that is now usually down to hundreds. Thats how dominant he was. They even changed the world cup rules because he won to much.

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elkourinho t1_jbsebmi wrote

I was a racer on the verge of Europa cup, no. Hirscher won by seconds in a much more competitive time and age oh and let's not forget the man won so many overalls he just got tired and fucked off still in his prime. And the numbers on their own mean little to me. I'd put Tomba over Ingemar too.

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thecaramelbandit t1_jbour87 wrote

I guess it depends on how you define that, because she wouldn't be competitive against men.

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Nubsondubs t1_jbp0mqo wrote

That goes without saying, because it's so stupidly obvious only an idiot would feel the need to point that out.

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Bill-Ender-Belichick t1_jbpco7z wrote

Never know in today’s society, I’ve been told there are no significant biological differences on reddit before.

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Apt_5 t1_jbpzveb wrote

Idk if you’re being downvoted b/c that doesn’t happen in this sub so people here haven’t seen it, but I will confirm that I have seen it argued all over reddit too. Especially wrt to sports, I’ve seen it stated as if fact that athletic performance isn’t significantly different between the two.

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Nubsondubs t1_jbpisso wrote

> been told there are no significant biological differences on reddit before.

That kind of thinking has to be in the minority by a wide margin. It's better not to validate it by acknowledging it to begin with.

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Apt_5 t1_jbq0yrg wrote

It may be only what a tiny minority thinks, but somehow they are powerful enough to provoke huge impacts. How the judge can believe that an assumed tendency toward depression and suicidality cancels out established physical differences in size and strength, I don’t know.

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Staedsen t1_jbsgr31 wrote

That is about transgender which is another thing.

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Apt_5 t1_jbu3x2n wrote

No, the athletic differences between men & women due to biology are relevant; they doesn’t disappear when the word “transgender” is introduced.

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Staedsen t1_jbu4fi3 wrote

They don't disappear when the word transgender is introduced but hormone therapy does change things quite a bit.

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loosterbooster t1_jbppt45 wrote

Tomba or Stenmark wouldn't be competitive on their equipment vs today's athletes either. The only comparison we can make is relative to their peers and by that metric Mikaela is the GOAT.

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skinte1 t1_jbqyv2n wrote

>The only comparison we can make is relative to their peers and by that metric Mikaela is the GOAT.

That would be GOAT together with Stenmark then... He still has as many wins and was arguably even more dominant in his time since he only competed in S and GS meaning he needed fewer events to reach his 86 wins. they even changed the rules because of him since he won the overall cup 3 years in a row despite not competeing in SG and DH...

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loosterbooster t1_jbr4n02 wrote

Agree at this moment Mikaela and Stenmark are basically even. However, Mikaela is only 27 and she will almost certainly win many more races. Also, why is it a bonus for Stenmark that he didn't compete in the speed events? I would suggest that makes Mikaela even more impressive.

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skinte1 t1_jbr8bpm wrote

>Also, why is it a bonus for Stenmark that he didn't compete in the speed events?

Because he had fewer events /tries to reach the same number of wins. As for Super G it didn't even exist until 1982 which was after Stenmarks prime. And parallel slalom, team events and combined weren't counted as WC wins back then but they are now etc. Another comparison is Stenmark has 155 podiums on 231 events and Mikaela has 135 podiums on 244 events.

But as you say Mikaela will probably win a lot more. Maybe even break 100 which would set her apart even from Stenmark.

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xhysics t1_jbp7cmi wrote

Greatest ski racer in human history, period.

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WedgeTurn t1_jbq5li0 wrote

And she's still so young! She still has another 5 or 6 years of peak career in her, it's absolutely insane.

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