Submitted by AcknowledgeableReal t3_z0geo7 in sports
Comments
KRossKoWolf t1_ix5hejg wrote
Good. Should never have been allowed to be hosted there in the first place. Just a case of money over morals.
[deleted] t1_ix5kwj6 wrote
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matrixislife t1_ix5mjck wrote
Wow, the Guardian sounds really pissed off that people have been having a go at Qatar.
itsalonghotsummer t1_ix5pppz wrote
No it doesn't
bluetriumphantcloud t1_ix5pu3v wrote
I guess they forgot to buy the BBC.
matrixislife t1_ix5qca1 wrote
Nice to see a well thought out, concise and erudite rebuttal. Or it would have been.
Just to maintain the flavour of the thread..
Yes it does!
taversham t1_ix5thno wrote
The Guardian is a left-wing newspaper that has also been heavily criticising Qatar. Bits of the article like:
"Rather than Doha’s preferred narrative of a tiny Arab country uniting the world with football, viewers in the UK were left in no doubt that the World Cup was mired in accusations of bribery and that Qatar was a deeply flawed host country."
make it pretty clear that they are on the BBC's side in this.
matrixislife t1_ix5u7z0 wrote
>The BBC declined to explain why it had shunted coverage of the opening ceremony – traditionally an opportunity for host countries to project soft power around the world – to an online-only stream.
>Even the former footballers brought in to analyse the actual sport for the BBC broke down any pretence that politics should be kept out of football.
>Back on the BBC, there was no such niceties,
>And then, after half an hour, the programme rapidly shifted towards discussion of football –......– and, eventually, 22 people kicking a ball around a pitch.
And it continues. This is not the Guardian getting firmly behind the Beeb. I was expecting them to be fully in lockstep, but apparently not.
taversham t1_ix5wa87 wrote
I think perhaps you're misinterpreting the tone of the article, saying the BBC had "no such niceties" in comparison to Al Jazeera's coverage is a a criticism of the latter not the former.
They go over every point that BBC brought up so that their readers will know about it, and only briefly touch on any "counterpoints" (which they dismiss as mere "niceties") - compare it to their article about the Fox coverage, which briefly summarises that the Fox coverage of Qatar was positive and then goes into detail about the criticisms thereof.
matrixislife t1_ix5wvzg wrote
I'm fine with the tone, if it were being positive about the BBC then they would have chosen a positive way to phrase it, "Back on the beeb, they were focussing on the important things instead" or somesuch, not "they were being gits"
MrMerryweather56 t1_ix5x66k wrote
At least MBS was there.
Viron_22 t1_ix69912 wrote
The check didn't clear yet.
LogitechG27 t1_ix6lqjg wrote
BBC = Racism.
grr_not_me t1_ix74fnx wrote
I just unjoined the World Cup subreddit. I hadn't paid attention to it until today. All I saw today was people trying to justify Qatar and FIFA actions by "both siding" the issue, and just general toxicity. I don't remember the toxicity during he last World Cup.
AiHangLo t1_ix79n3a wrote
Machine bum shelly?
spaceyspaceyspace t1_ix7bjpc wrote
> where they were focusing on the important things instead
Yeah they’re writing much more subtly than that, it’s not a newspaper for children or people with an IQ of 5…
thatguysaidearlier t1_ix7dcns wrote
It would be a cheque anyway... :)
Viron_22 t1_ix7gqrn wrote
Really with FIFA it would probably be in cash, they don't want to leave a paper trail at this point. Wouldn't want people thinking they were corrupt, would they?
English84 t1_ix7h3to wrote
My iq is 3 am I ok still
spaceyspaceyspace t1_ix7hhhc wrote
44MHz t1_ix7j29n wrote
> I don't remember the toxicity during he last World Cup.
Which is ironic because the toxicity should have been a lot worse. The state of Russia is orders of magnitude worse than Qatar.
44MHz t1_ix7j381 wrote
It's still a step in the right direction from Russia in 2018.
Ehab1991 t1_ix7jgft wrote
It's plain racism at this point
GoodmanSimon t1_ix7k8z6 wrote
A bit of a weird thing for the bbc to do.
I mean they have entire teams in Qatar reporting the tournament and yet they still choose to have a go at their human rights.
I think it would have been best for them to not go at all ... but I guess they still had to make money.
Sfb208 t1_ix7kdvl wrote
BBC doesn't make money. It's a public service station funded through the TV licence.
However, they do have a remit to report on anything of public interest to the British people, and yes, that means they cover major sports events. Particularly football, as its probably the biggest sport in the UK.
ItDoesntMatter59 t1_ix7lc9i wrote
The BBC makes no money as it’s effectively run as a state non profit.
ItDoesntMatter59 t1_ix7le97 wrote
It doesnt mean Big Black Cock in this context.
ItDoesntMatter59 t1_ix7lgqy wrote
Yours wasnt so why should he give a long reply
ItDoesntMatter59 t1_ix7licr wrote
You know dozens of countries inc in Europe do…
GoodmanSimon t1_ix7lzuz wrote
They do make money, they sell the rights to some of their shows/events.
License fees only partially cover their costs, (large part if I recall), but that's not all of it. They have to sell some of their contents.
>However, they do have a remit to report on anything of public interest
Yes, then why not show the opening ceremony then?
GoodmanSimon t1_ix7m2wf wrote
They do, they sell contents, (like coverage of the soccer world cup), to other providers.
License fee does not cover everything.
Sfb208 t1_ix7mcvm wrote
True, except most of their money doesn't go into the pockets of shareholders, which is a significant difference than, say, fox.
Opening ceremony isn't necessary part of the games. It's the games they report on. Plus, they're public remit does place them in an awkward position. Plenty of people would prefer tax payer money wasn't spent on promoting Qatar, but they'd be damned by football fanatics if they didn't. Not showing the ceremony is a compromise. Its a nod to taking a stand without withholding actual sports coverage.
RawGrit4Ever t1_ix7mff1 wrote
It was awful anyways
teabagmoustache t1_ix7n18p wrote
The BBC does not sell it's coverage rights to third parties. Rights to broadcast the World Cup are paid to FIFA.
They sell their own content to other providers, like UK Gold and Brit Box for example but they do not profit from broadcasting the World Cup.
GoodmanSimon t1_ix7n1a2 wrote
I am not going to split hair here, I think we are both saying the same thing in a way.
I still think they do have to make money otherwise the UK taxpayers would need to pay higher fees and that would make the BBC even more unpopular, (or the government of the day if they had to use taxpayer money to foot the difference).
So, while they are definitely not a private entity they do have to make some money.
Because they are seen as the TV station of the UK, they also have a role to play when it comes to those kind of delicate situations. In this case I think they chose a bit of a backhanded way to still be there but be seen to be outraged.
TheExtreel t1_ix7o2wy wrote
It's a shame but they're just trying to justify themselves watching it. A lot of people have conflicting feelings about this world cup and they don't know how to feel good about themselves enjoying this world cup after all the shitty things Qatar has done, so they try to argue their way into believing "its not that bad" or "other countries are worse" just so they can enjoy the cup.
At least that's how i see it. It's football fans were talking about here, they might just be shitty people and that's that.
teabagmoustache t1_ix7ooem wrote
>I guess they still had to make money
This is the part people are disagreeing with.
They make no money from the World Cup.
You turned the conversation into something completely irrelevant instead of just accepting you got that detail wrong.
jamesmon t1_ix7osd1 wrote
You might think, but somehow Qatar manages to be worse. They just don’t have the power to project themselves on others like Russia does.
matrixislife t1_ix7s9g7 wrote
To explain why he disagrees? I didn't realise we were comparing word counts in responses.
sleepy_tech t1_ix7taen wrote
The Qataris must be having sleepless nights now. Oh no!!
sleepy_tech t1_ix7td60 wrote
Exactly. CNN and BBC are both dead.
ErenV400 t1_ix7ucla wrote
Everyone here is a loser lmao no one cares about them, The real fans are already in Qatar enjoying
44MHz t1_ix7z4sg wrote
They don't manage to be worse. Russia is far far worse. Russia is literally running a genocide campaign and has been committing continuous war crimes since at least 2014.
Qatar just isn't running a massive propaganda and brainwashing fake news campaign on the scale that Russia is. They are an easy target for racists and islamophobia.
grr_not_me t1_ix7z5ks wrote
Good point, I completely forgot about that. Maybe FIFA has finally gone one too far for me and an okay percentage of fans around the world. I guess TV ratings will see if they went too far or are just too popular.
nykgg t1_ix81dr6 wrote
Dude, you are really misreading the tone here. Every quote you list is supportive of the BBC actions.
The Guardian disapproves of Qatar getting to project soft power through this event.
The Guardian doesn’t like the idea that ‘politics should be kept out of football’.
The Guardian does not have any interest in presenting this event with niceties either.
This is all relatively in-line with the Guardian’s own mission.
Maybe in a tabloid paper like the Sun they’d be using super positive approving language, but in a paper like the Guardian, Independent or Times they try to keep a more detached tone, even if their own politics are being highlighted.
IT WOZ THE SUN WOT SPORTS-WASHED IT!
matrixislife t1_ix82idh wrote
I disagree. And let's not try to put the Grauniad too far ahead of other papers, they have their own issues.
nykgg t1_ix82z1l wrote
That’s why I distinguished it into the same group as other non-tabloid papers…
jamesmon t1_ix834nl wrote
They make themselves an easy target by treating women and homosexuals like shit. Both countries are garbage.
matrixislife t1_ix83e90 wrote
That's what I meant. Some of the stuff they publish under "opinion" pieces is much worse than the redtops.
[deleted] t1_ix866o9 wrote
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[deleted] t1_ix86bjx wrote
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Canadian_summer1 t1_ix86n89 wrote
Bro y'all are surprised about slavery with people building the stadium I remember watching a videos about it from last week tonight in like what 2017? You guys sure didn't make a big shit then.
nykgg t1_ix87d4t wrote
Perhaps, but you must agree they are on average far less brash with their language choice than those papers
thesame123 t1_ix8a4ot wrote
Calm down, mate. Not everything is about racism. Maybe try acknowledging the fact that Qatar doesn’t believe in human rights.
RobotBureaucracy t1_ix8ao3o wrote
Just boycott this shit. Soccer sucks anyways.
44MHz t1_ix8bcks wrote
They absolutely believe in human rights.
Shankar_0 t1_ix8bgkn wrote
I bet that's written in calligraphy.
matrixislife t1_ix8ec6t wrote
Language choice takes second place when it comes to subject choice and manifestation of inherent biases. They are all papers that promote an ideology, they are the same imo.
JimmminyCricket t1_ix8fk3a wrote
If you mean the right to treat human, non male, non cis, non Muslims like shit, then yes you’re right.
44MHz t1_ix8fxso wrote
In the West it's exactly the same except change Muslim with white.
JimmminyCricket t1_ix8gir2 wrote
You’re actually defending an authoritarian regime that hates women and gay people. A government that HAS A MORALITY POLICE.😂😆
You’re actually DEFENDING intolerance/prejudice and racism and turning around and screaming racism at the people pointing it out.
You’re insincere and you don’t know how you’re supposed to feel. So you scream racism because it’s been true before.
Grow up.
BostonBoy01 t1_ix8gm51 wrote
Muslims can’t get married in the west?
JimmminyCricket t1_ix8h395 wrote
LOL. Okay? First off yea, white people are treated better due to systemic racism. It’s quite different in terms of rules and laws for everyone though lmao.
Also, all you have is to redirect to “BUT BUT BUT THE DEH TEH USA BED TOO1!!1!11!”
Like come on man. The way to take criticism is not to turn around and criticize. Fucking admit fault. See how I did that in the first paragraph for the USA even though it’s an evident “what-aboutism” and a strawman argument?
JimmminyCricket t1_ix8hbdq wrote
Yea evidently the gays banned Muslims from marrying the opposite sex, the whites banned Muslims from practicing Islam or reading the Quran and the furries are forcing everyone to attend furry conventions every Saturday or the furry morality police will pick you up.
Vestigen t1_ix8hf7t wrote
not enjoying booze tho
44MHz t1_ix8hrai wrote
If you think gays and Muslims aren't persecuted in white countries then you are obviously white and not gay or Muslim.
They are literally being killed. Just a few hours ago a group of Gays were executed in a bar in America.
This is happening right now.
44MHz t1_ix8hv7w wrote
Not in state Churches, no.
It's the same thing.
[deleted] t1_ix8i36h wrote
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JimmminyCricket t1_ix8idi5 wrote
Duh it’s happening. It’s due to extremists. But guess what? The government doesn’t OUTRIGHT BAN these people from existing. Yes we need to change our culture still (as do the Qataris…) but we are at least a major leap ahead.
And if you truly feel that way, why are you seemingly only standing up against it on one side of things? On the other (Qatar) side you just want to run defense and point to other countries that “do it too.” So is it bad or not????? PERIOD. That’s it. It’s bad. Call it out every time. Big or small.
44MHz t1_ix8jadg wrote
It's not extremists if they are the presidents of those countries.
I'm not standing up for anyone.
I'm just telling you that Russia is far worse than Qatar.
Berloxx t1_ix8k4ve wrote
Gasps in german
Thraxmonger t1_ix8lzsh wrote
No sport is worth the cost of corruption and racketeering that football brings to the table. It makes boxing look like an ethical masterclass by comparison. All sports require its fans to be tribal, but football takes everything to the next level, and the violence of the sport's fanbase speaks for itself. Hosting something that's supposed to be the "world's game" in a place like Qatar is more than enough evidence that ethics are purely secondary to profit. This is not the "world's game", but it is a game that is out to profit from that world in whatever ways it can.
Ehab1991 t1_ix8o3vf wrote
You're mixing Qatar with Saudi Arabia, that shows exactly how racist you're in lumping them all up ignorantly.
​
I know exactly how I feel, the west is nothing but a bunch of hypocrites, y'all should be ashamed of yourselves.
​
Fuck all of y'all.
Ehab1991 t1_ix8oc4f wrote
Don't waste your time with these brainwashed idiots.
JimmminyCricket t1_ix8p3r1 wrote
You’re a clown that can’t even debate on an intellectual factual level. Just calling me racist and cursing at me when I don’t bend to your will. You are wrong. I don’t give a fuck how you feel. QATAR is as if not completely worse racist/prejudiced as middle American white conservatives.
Grow up you petulant child. 🤡
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/10/24/qatar-security-forces-arrest-abuse-lgbt-people
“All six said that police forced them to sign pledges indicating that they would “cease immoral activity.”
Ehab1991 t1_ix8qvdd wrote
First of all, I didn't say anything about gay folks intolerance because, news flash, it's a Muslim country, wth did you expect?
Second of all, you can't just impose your western values as the morally correct choice on other nations, it doesn't work like that. That article about guardianship doesn't mean jack shit. They site just two isolated cases and generalize it on the whole country!
Get the fuck outta here.
Dark_clone t1_ix8rvxg wrote
Go bbc !
[deleted] t1_ix8sw3v wrote
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nykgg t1_ix8vvyx wrote
Okay, but you think that the Guardian is against the BBCs choice to present Qatar critically even though it’s clearly the opposite? So where does that leave your assessment of their use of language?
matrixislife t1_ix97k0u wrote
>it’s clearly the opposite
In your opinion. My assessment of their use of language is fine, in my opinion.
RobotBureaucracy t1_ix9rajw wrote
flexes in American
Jimmy_kong253 t1_ixc3u1e wrote
But at the time Russia wasn't as bad as it is now. If Russia was hosting now it would be a complete uproar worse than Qatar
Jimmy_kong253 t1_ixc42oy wrote
These opening ceremonies be it Olympics or world cup that use unity as a theme are bs especially when it's from host countries with a history of being a divider. I figured someone at BBC saw the theme and was like nope nobody is going to turn in to that we will just wait till the BTS guy lip syncs his song to switch
44MHz t1_ixcfixk wrote
Russia invaded Ukraine and started its genocide in 2014. Four years before it hosted the World Cup.
tatxc t1_ixchuo0 wrote
In the UK any Muslim could get married in any state registry office or C of E Church a Christian could.
44MHz t1_ixcjfmx wrote
Christians can’t get married in Qatar? (They absolutely can)
44MHz t1_ixcjnh9 wrote
Just like they can in churches in Qatar.
It's the same thing.
tatxc t1_ixcnh8x wrote
Yeah, no. Gays can't get married in Qatar.
Jews can't even get koshur food there right now or pray in public.
CaptainDino123 t1_ixdjx0e wrote
Muslims can be executed for being muslim in the west? Damn I must have missed that news story
44MHz t1_ixdwe7z wrote
Neither can gays get married in many parts of Europe, like Italy.
And halal food practices are illegal in Sweden and Denmark, for example.
It’s the same thing.
44MHz t1_ixdxpln wrote
White people can be executed for being white in Qatar? Damn I must have missed that news story
tatxc t1_ixe1d0x wrote
Halal slaughter is banned in animal rights grounds. Halal food isn't, you can buy Halal food there easily.
And Italy might not have gay marriage but it does have civil unions registered by the state. That's not the same as Qatar where its illegal.
44MHz t1_ixe2fyv wrote
Gay marriage is illegal in Italy. "Alternatives" exist in both Italy and Qatar but they don't count.
Most halal food is kosher anyway. Kosher has slightly stricter preparation rules for some ingredients, but if you practice Judaism you know what these are and can avoid them.
CaptainDino123 t1_ixe5dok wrote
Homosexuals fam
44MHz t1_ixe6i8s wrote
In the US, gay people are getting murdered in the street. The police do nothing since most of them are against gay rights.
CaptainDino123 t1_ixe8zvz wrote
Oh youre an actual crazy person that makes sense
44MHz t1_ixeb6hi wrote
> person who makes sense
tatxc t1_ixeq95x wrote
Being gay is illegal in qatar. Its very fucking different and you know it.
And its easy to avoid unless you're visiting a country for an event. And none of that addresses the ban on public prayer. They're both clearly an attempt to suppress Judaism.
44MHz t1_ixer1ok wrote
Being gay is not illegal in Qatar. What is this nonsense.
And Italy's ban on gay marriage is clearly a way to suppress gay people. That's Europe for you.
tatxc t1_ixgpbl4 wrote
Sexual acts of male homosexuality are illegal in Qatar, with a punishment of up to three years in prison and a fine and the possibility of a death penalty for Muslims under sharia law.
You're not fooking anyone with this disingenuous crap and you're just factually wrong here.
44MHz t1_ixgq4ks wrote
Funny, because a gay marriage is illegal in Italy, with punishment of up to three years in prison and fines.
It's even the same punishment in Europe.
tatxc t1_ixi7ccs wrote
Yeah sorry going to need a source on that one.
44MHz t1_ixie4j8 wrote
Gay marriage (or any non-genuine marriage) is a breach of art 495 in the Italian penal code.
tatxc t1_ixifgjb wrote
No, 495 is for falsely declaring on official documents and the penalty is one year.
I think you know this too, as there's never been a case of a homosexual being prosecuted under these laws.
44MHz t1_ixifrw8 wrote
There has never been a gay marriage punished in Qatar either.
So we can dismiss that one too.
tatxc t1_ixiuaas wrote
That's because qatar imprisons people for the act of homosexuality and offers no legal alternative. So we can't dismiss that at all, they're not the same and you know that.
44MHz t1_ixiwavo wrote
And Italy imprisons people for claiming gay marriage (since they are considered non-genuine). There is no legal alternative.
tatxc t1_ixj0o44 wrote
No they don't, this has been to court before. They don't go to prison, they just get reclassified as civil unions. You have no idea what you're talking about.
The LGBTQ+ safety index rates Italy 53rd of 203 countries with a score of 168. Qatar are rated 190th with a score of - 137.
They aren't the same. You know that, I know that. We're done here.
44MHz t1_ixj26ws wrote
Civil unions are not as much as an alternative to marriage as a wife is and alternative to a gay man’s marriage. These two cannot be equated.
tatxc t1_ixj476h wrote
This is nonsense, a legally binding, state recognised agreement between two people, while not perfect, is clearly better than being imprisoned for committing the acts required to develop a connection needed to enter said contact. This is a fact and its why the safety index is so heavily different. I'll only be accepting sourced arguments from reasonably objective sources from you now I'm afraid.
44MHz t1_ixjc4t7 wrote
Same for you.
Please give the source stating gays in Italy are not fighting for gay marriage to be recognized and they are happy with civil partnership as being equal to straight marriage.
tatxc t1_ixjdd4x wrote
Nobody argued that, it's the definition of a straw man. Nobody argued that European countries were perfect. And the fact you're trying to argue that is because you know the actual point of contention is irrefutable. You're just JAQing off.
The simple and irrefutable fact is that all Western European countries are significantly better places for homosexuals to live, work and visit than Qatar. The [LGBTQ+ safety index] and (https://www.asherfergusson.com/lgbtq-travel-safety/) equalidex both clearly illustrate this.
44MHz t1_ixje4n6 wrote
And European countries are significantly worse than Qatar for Muslims.
What’s your point?
tatxc t1_ixjgc07 wrote
> And European countries are significantly worse than Qatar for Muslims.
I'm afraid you're going to need a citation for the fact that Muslims' human rights are better catered for in Qatar than in the UK. Because for gay Muslims, women, foreign working Muslims or even Shia Muslims
[deleted] t1_ix5fyjo wrote
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