>The Supernova release will include an overhaul of Thunderbird's user interface. Castellani didn't share screenshots, but he indicated that the new UI would be "simple and clean" and targeted mostly at new users. For "veteran users," the interface will also be "flexible and adaptable" so that people who prefer the way Thunderbird looks now can "maintain that familiarity they love." > >Supernova will also include several other big changes, including a redesigned calendar and support for Firefox Sync. > >Beyond news about the redesign, the blog post is worth a read if you're curious about what the team is doing to battle the software's technical debt or if you want to know why it seems like the app's development moves so slowly (the developers spend a lot of their time simply keeping up with upstream changes from Firefox since the browser still serves as the foundation for Thunderbird's email rendering). The post is also helpful if you need a refresher on the long and complicated relationship between Thunderbird and Mozilla. > >Thunderbird used to be maintained by Mozilla alongside the Firefox browser, but in the modern era, it hasn't always been clear who's responsible for it. Mozilla executives had wanted to spin Thunderbird off as early as 2007, and it moved to a more community-driven development model in 2012.

It's good to see that an old stalwart client is getting a much-needed overhaul. Fingers crossed that this goes well, and that they have enough resources to properly execute on their vision.

Why just release a new thing? Why do they need to change Thunderbird?

Did you read the article?

If they're not going to bring Thunderbird up to modern performance standards, what's the point of putting a shiny new UI on it?

EDIT: Well, the Ars Technica article really seems to miss the big picture here:

> With this year’s release of Thunderbird 115 “Supernova,” we’re doing much more than just another yearly release. It’s a modernized overhaul of the software, both visually and technically. Thunderbird is undergoing a massive rework from the ground up to get rid of all the technical and interface debt accumulated over the past 10 years.

> This is not an easy task, but it’s necessary to guarantee the sustainability of the project for the next 20 years.

> Simply “adding stuff on top” of a crumbling architecture is not sustainable, and we can’t keep ignoring it.

> Throughout the next 3 years, the Thunderbird project is aiming at these primary objectives:

> * Make the code base leaner and more reliable, rewrite ancient code, remove technical debt.

> * Rebuild the interface from scratch to create a consistent design system, as well as developing and maintaining an adaptable and extremely customizable user interface.

> * Switch to a monthly release schedule.

https://blog.thunderbird.net/2023/02/the-future-of-thunderbird-why-were-rebuilding-from-the-ground-up/

Because people who didn't use Lotus Notes and Outlook Express don't understand how to use Thunderbird and where to click.

Is it running slow on your machine?

I dumped Thunderbird years ago after it trashed my mbox file for the last time. Moved over to Gmail. And I'm on Linux

Notes gets a ton of hate, but I miss it.

As someone who had to try and develope emails for it, fuck lotus notes in its big stupid face.

I had to troubleshoot it when I worked in IT. It sucked mightily

I really hope they concentrate on performance and reliability and not simply silly cosmetic changes to make it look "fresh"

To waste 2/3 of your screen and to give everyone the same shitty mobile experience even when they're on a full computer, obviously!

Yay for change for the sake of change. :/ And, despite what they claim, functionality is certain to be reduced in the redesign, same as it has been with Firefox.

Nah. They'll probably do a Firefox and remove and reduce functionality to the point where it's just like any other client and there's no longer any point to people using it.

UI redesigns never, ever go well. You just know they're going to "simplify" and "streamline" it into the same shitty mobile experience for everyone, even when you're on a computer.

I used Thunderbird back them but went to Mailbird years ago and haven’t look back since.

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Why is that envelope wearing a Karen wig?

Amazing news for the 4 people still using Thunderbird

Kinda weird they're announcing this now since they've already been making lots of changes to the UI in recent versions. Good to see the project getting some much needed attention after all this time.

Can someone tell me why you think thunderbird does not have good performance? I’ve noticed it’s super fast and reliable. Outlook sucks. Every single client I do tech support for has some issue with outlook at one point that interferes with their work. It NEVER works. Thunderbird on the other hand, never once had an issue. And it’s autodiscover actually works where outlook, on 2 different computers, could not find an exchange account.

Oh and how about when the outlook process is stuck open so the next time you try to launch it, it just doesn’t open. 100% of computers I worked on had this issue

I didn't use either of those but tbh Thunderbird was pretty easy to understand right up until I realized I had no reason to use it. Transferred from my ISP-provided email to Gmail and most of my email is phone-convenient, anything that needs to be done on desktop I can get to by just typing "gmail" into my browser and clicking the first link.

Isn’t this the same app that has a huge history on critical vulnerabilities?

I use it primarily for subscribing to RSS feeds and nothing much more than that.

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This is the reason why I stay on Thunderbird 68.

It has been nothing but downhill since then.

You've already perfected UI. You don't need to keep fucking with it. This is the same crap Google does and why nobody likes them.

Weird to use Firefox as an example here when it's literally the last browser that does have a compelling use case since it's the last non-chromium option on windows.

(And the add on support is excellent)

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> Weird to use Firefox as an example

They removed the support for RSS feeds from FF… :-( Hopefully they won't remove it from TB.

I'm on v60 and afraid to upgrade.

Why give two organizations access to your data though. Good opsec is lessening third parties that might have access. Clients on your local machine need another level of trust as well. You have to really, really trust Mozilla to do that.

I mean, they already use Gmail so I don't think they care much about this sort of thing.

I use thunderbird with a paid outlook plugin. I use it for work. I'm hoping that it won't break things. Fingers crossed.

The 8 people who use it will be very happy

TIL Thunderbird still exists.

Local client has so much more capabilities for data collection and observing your machine though. Gmail is mostly browser, but Chrome already has your info, so why add another client... with local access.

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I’m sure no on would even notice

I just use Feedly ever since Google's RSS thing disappeared. Works fine on Firefox.

If you use Firefox or Thunderbird you are trusting them with your data and your machine. Any client will get at minimum, telemetry.

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Telemetry beyond the telemetry is always captured. At minimum this is system fingerprinting, location, usage, system info etc.

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All I know is NNTP is pretty badly broken in both the latest release and now I'm the beta channel. Not that it's the biggest use case, but it has been pretty bad.

> it's not based on Electron.

They say in the blog that it's based on Mozilla Firefox. So instead of a chromium web sandbox (Electron) you get the app based on another browser's web sandbox. I don't really see how that's too different (though I've never used Thunderbird nor Electron-based email clients).

I'm not sure of the point. It is absolutely using a full browser engine, the same one as Firefox. Which is pretty much how electron apps work, but with chrome as the engine.

There are RSS support extensions for every browser, including FF though? I don't see the issue if you can just re-add the functionality you want with a few clicks.

WHY? The current interface is perfectly fine!

I have to concur

In a time where every major browser is announcing revolutionary new LLM AI integrations, I feel like Mozilla announcing a new email client is like listening to your friends talk about the new cars they just bought and going “I found a dead pigeon at the side of the road once” because you want to feel included.

Like, good for you, but that’s not what this conversation is about.

While this is true, you then have all your emails in Google’s hands. Some people want to avoid that. Some people also expect more from an email client than sending and receiving emails. E.g. signing and encrypting emails, storing emails offline, custom filters, auto-reply settings, just to name a few. Thunderbird is a good choice if you like all of those.

They say that they're going to make it "extremely customizable" so fingers crossed

Any good alternative to try in the meantime? Really want a good email client.

bruh have you seen firefox mobile? you have to go through silly hoops to install addons, by default they give you a predefined list of ~15 addons now and that's it XD

"every major browser?" I only heard of Edge. You're telling me both Chrome and Firefox are planning on implementing the same features?

I just want the UI of Notes' email app, but without the Domino server architecture, and I'd be happy.

I'm not sure I am happy to read this. I like it. All it needs to do is send and store mail. It does that just fine right now. Really not going to need a revamp and make it 'more modern', 'more like an Office 365/Outlook/whatever'. It's fine as it is.

That just means they're going to introduce a million more bugs for no added functionality - and you get to keep your current UI but with added errors.

The only reason I (just) upgraded from TB 52 to TB 78 was to get dark mode. It required replacing extensions/changing workflow. Who needs the hassle?!?

From 78 to 91 the app goes from ~200mb to ~350mb!

I miss Eudora. Rock solid and a top notch/FAST global mailbox search.

Desktop UIs needs to be balanced. Can't be too simplified like a mobile app cus then you can't do shit meaningful. UI also cant look so fucking dated that it actually hurts usability.

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Holy shit I can’t believe this app still exists

I never had to admin it. But as a user, I liked it.

It's based on Firefox in that there is code overlap, and the same web engine is used to render emails, but this doesn't make it slow. It just means that the performance is similar to Firefox, which is plenty fast since you need some web engine to render the emails anyway.

With electron-based programs though, it goes one layer deeper. The whole program, not just the email content, is basically running inside another separate program that is the electron javascript engine. That's why it's slower. It would be like if Thunderbird was a website that ran inside Firefox.

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It needed it.

I also found the Mailbird app very useful.

It saves my time because I can open and integrate other user accounts with just a click.