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bstowers t1_jb3tb6f wrote

If we’re banning apps over data collection, Silicon Valley is about to crash like it’s 1929.

97

Japanagan t1_jb3u3c3 wrote

Can we do talking about it and just do it?

−2

jeffinRTP t1_jb3v1eo wrote

I'm just wondering what would happen if other countries started Banning us companies over data collection concerns.

148

WriterWri t1_jb3vfkq wrote

The US gov wants to make sure they are the only ones profiting off citizens' data.

13

pomonamike t1_jb3x9wa wrote

Replying to bstowers (#2,170,466)

No, just banning the apps that cut out the data broker middleman. Hell, I bet Meta and the data brokers wrote this bill to regain a bigger share of the data market. And you can bet your ass they’ll gladly sell your data to the CCP, since that seems to be the fake concern here.

2

t0slink t1_jb3xx12 wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#2,170,577)

No, your comment is false.

Google and Facebook don't sell your data, this is a misinformed Reddit meme. Your data is literally their secret sauce, it's the most valuable thing these companies have.

These companies sell ads using your data. They keep your data itself close to their chest, because it is what generates ongoing revenue for them. They are not data brokers at all, and they wouldn't do something so stupid as selling their most valuable asset to data brokers.

FB/G also don't sell data to the NSA, rather they are forced to implement backdoors (PRISM) with gag orders (NSLs). Sometimes the NSA gives them token compensation for the engineering effort, but it's not obligated to. The NSA also doesn't really need their compliance to begin with, to get into their systems.

Source: am a security engineer that has worked for most of Big Tech at this point.

17

t0slink t1_jb3yu9o wrote

Replying to Kitchen-Award-3845 (#2,170,647)

Please do some basic research. Cambridge Analytica was effectively an exploit.

A researcher working for a Russian-sponsored thinktank found ways to extract much more data from the social graph API than Facebook ever intended for any developers to be able to retrieve.

9

t0slink t1_jb3z5dc wrote

Replying to Curious_Technician85 (#2,170,615)

TikTok also shares with the NSA. This was the whole point of moving the app to Oracle datacenters with tight access control and connection auditing. Oracle closely cooperates with the NSA. So yes, the NSA effectively has unfettered access to TikTok.

I suspect this is less of a national security issue at this point and more of an attempt to force a sale of TikTok to a US entity, strengthening our position in adtech. Alternatively, this is an attempt to kill TikTok entirely, accomplishing the same strengthening of our own adtech industry.

41

Quadrature_Strat t1_jb410gr wrote

All the US internet platforms were eventually neutered by the Chinese government.

The real question is, can China use their protected, walled-off market to create platforms and then export these platforms to the US without allowing US firms to compete in China?

Maybe you smell justice (or injustice), but I just smell payback.

4

Kertr4 t1_jb431zd wrote

Facebook, Twitter, Instagram 😂 tiktok is just another one

−1

jens-2420 t1_jb434y9 wrote

Apple products are foreign-made as well.

−1

Sudden_Mix9724 t1_jb43bnq wrote

I wonder if the US TEENS and kids can handle the withdrawal symptoms...it's only the majority of US content creators that make a living on tiktok.

let's see what happens.

−4

atwegotsidetrekked t1_jb43k3o wrote

Replying to t0slink (#2,170,768)

Do you work at a disinformation campaign center?

On Friday, Rep. Anna Eshoo asked the Federal Trade Commission to investigate newly revealed police software, known as Fog Reveal, which allows law enforcement agencies to map the movements of Americans “months back in time.” That service relies not on netflow data, but location data culled from hundreds of consumer apps, purportedly for advertising purposes.

ncis whistleblower

There is only 2 advertisement companies on the net for most of the market google and meta

−3

ericneo3 t1_jb444an wrote

  • US Companies: Capitalism and competition is the way in the open market but only when we're a monopoly.

  • US Companies: Save us GOVT intervention from having to compete in the open market.

  • US Companies again: We pay executives stupid amounts of money, but will have to close if the GOVT doesn't bail us out with tax payer money.

  • Shitty US Companies: This year we made record profits, so we are firing 10-20% of our work force that made it happen.

17

t0slink t1_jb44n7l wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#2,170,716)

I am a cybersecurity engineer, and your claims are completely wrong. Most of your claims aren't even possible on any modern smartphone.

> They record you in your home talking through Alexa and Google Home

They explicitly need a warrant to this. A warrant from a farce of a secret court with no oversight, but it's misleading to say they do this to everyone.

> 1st when you agree to use the app you give them 100% control over your device.

Now the bullshittery begins. Absolutely not the case.

> they can take all your pics, videos anything on your phone

Not true at all. You explicitly have to let it.

> They can turn on your camera and mic whenever they want to record.

Ditto. Not possible unless you explitly give it permission.

> the Chinese govt can spy on you at your job. They can record you talking and take video.

Lmao fuck no, this simply isn't possible. Please learn how modern smartphone OSes work.

You have some valid points about government spying. But then you go completely off-the-rails into fantasy land when it comes to imagining what TikTok can do. Android and iOS simply are not dumb enough to allow any app to take control of your phone like you suggest.

Please stop using your sales position to try to convince people you know what you're talking about. You don't. And that's okay - I'm sure you were a great salesperson, but please don't spread fear, unrest, and despair about stuff you don't understand.

6

t0slink t1_jb469ux wrote

Replying to atwegotsidetrekked (#2,170,864)

As pointed out, even your "mainstream articles" literally don't support your claim anywhere in them.

When asked for evidence to support the very simple claim that "G/FB sell your data," you have come up with none whatsoever.

If it's such a foregone and obvious conclusion, surely you must have plenty of sources. Please do share them. You'd certainly be able to sue for a handsome amount if you could actually prove it.

5

MarhaultEls t1_jb46isz wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#2,170,716)

I can get why you were in sales, that's some top notch fearmongering. The permissions that get set when you install TikTok simply don't allow for the behaviour you're stating it can do.

4

atwegotsidetrekked t1_jb46o2n wrote

Replying to t0slink (#2,170,948)

  • me: 100,000+ karma
  • You: less than 10k
  • me: comes with articles supporting my claims
  • you: no articles and use gaslighting as an argument
  • me: comes with facts to support my argument, I don’t need to provide my resume because I actually know what I am talking about
  • you: I am a security engineer “trust me bro”

Whatever

0

atwegotsidetrekked t1_jb472et wrote

Replying to t0slink (#2,170,768)

Pulling up the thread. Dude is a troll account and don’t believe anything.

  • me: 100,000+ karma
  • You: less than 10k
  • me: comes with articles supporting my claims
  • you: no articles and use gaslighting as an argument
  • me: comes with facts to support my argument, I don’t need to provide my resume because I actually know what I am talking about
  • you: I am a security engineer “trust me bro”

Whatever posting here so others don’t waste time arguing with the trolls

Only 2 online advertisers google and meta:

On Friday, Rep. Anna Eshoo asked the Federal Trade Commission to investigate newly revealed police software, known as Fog Reveal, which allows law enforcement agencies to map the movements of Americans “months back in time.” That service relies not on netflow data, but location data culled from hundreds of consumer apps, purportedly for advertising purposes.

ncis whistleblower

There is only 2 advertisement companies on the net for most of the market google and meta

−2

t0slink t1_jb472n8 wrote

Replying to atwegotsidetrekked (#2,170,962)

Never understood why people like you simply can't admit when they're wrong and they can't support their claims. The world would be a better place if people like you didn't take being wrong as an attack on your identity.

6

PerfectPercentage69 t1_jb48kcs wrote

Replying to t0slink (#2,170,670)

No. The goal was to try to move it away from China, or at least appear to. And between China and the NSA, I would rather the NSA snoops through my data. They, at least, don't commit outright genocides.

−14

AustinJG t1_jb48lq7 wrote

I understand banning it from being inside government buildings, but I'm not for banning it entirely. Not unless you finally want to regulate the data collection market in general.

−1

CoolUncleTouch t1_jb49fpc wrote

Can we get a ban on US companies with concerning data collection?

8

Vivid-Feed-9850 t1_jb4a8xi wrote

Lol they're going to become what they deride China for being, with a weird little closed off USA internet

2

t0slink t1_jb4alc0 wrote

Replying to PerfectPercentage69 (#2,171,053)

> Do you think that a Chinese company would respect any privacy law that the US government passes?

By definition, the company would have to follow the law or it would simply be delisted. The US is no stranger to delisting foreign companies for illegal activity.

It is also easy to verify whether these companies are following the law, at least with regards to CCPA or GDPR.

7

irn t1_jb4augc wrote

Replying to Finishes_like_bevan (#2,170,924)

GDPR is taught in every American country doing overseas business as part of their data protection knowledge even though the US doesn’t have the same standard. If someone could differentiate the difference in TikTok feed algorithm between every country beside China you would see a difference on what gets shown. It’s weird we even have TikTok in the US.

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PerfectPercentage69 t1_jb4b6d3 wrote

Replying to t0slink (#2,171,063)

Delist from where? Tiktok is not publicly traded. They can ban it if the US thinks they are doing something bad, like being used by a foreign power to get data on its citizens. Hence, the whole purpose of this bill.

Also, just because they might follow the law like GDPR, it doesn't mean that they can't break it at a moments notice if the CCP demands it since they have to by Chinese law.

I get your point, and I agree that we need better privacy laws, but that's a completely different issue from what this bill is trying to do.

−1

irn t1_jb4b7ph wrote

Replying to PerfectPercentage69 (#2,171,053)

It’s not just about having data but the ability to prorrogarte the data being shown by their apps. Between Facebook and Twitter, TikTok can be manipulated into echo chambers to divide our country even more than the Russians have in the past.

2

t0slink t1_jb4bcgv wrote

Replying to PerfectPercentage69 (#2,171,082)

Whether it's publicly traded or not is irrelevant. US businesses can be banned from doing business with TikTok/ByteDance and thus forced to delist the app from app stores.

This is what happened to Huawei and ZTE, and it's why Huawei phones can't use Google Play Services.

3

supaloopar t1_jb4bdut wrote

Oh boy… lump all foreigners in and you’re going to start fracturing American internet companies global hold

5

TheseLipsSinkShips t1_jb4bldp wrote

Facebook should be banned for the same reason. They betrayed Americans, used them… deceived them, programmed them.

8

bjisgooder t1_jb4hrkj wrote

US govt: "Hey! Only we're allowed to (not so) secretly do that!

3

Retrac752 t1_jb4hxz1 wrote

Friendly reminder that US companies collecting data, and TikTok collecting data, are apples and oranges

US companies don't like giving away their data to the government without legal orders, US companies just wanna make a quick buck, so giving your data away for free to the gov doesn't benefit them, and there is a fair bit of protection for you, the consumer, not enough protection, but some

In contrast, the Chinese government has the right to all of their companies data, and they couldn't care less about protecting you, in fact, it is not far fetched to say that one of china's highest priorities is the destabilization of the West

Tiktoks data harvesting is egregious to the point where it has the capability that if you give it location permission once, it can permanently track you 24/7 even when the app is closed, and it can also randomly track your keystrokes in other applications to steal log in info and passwords to any of your accounts, and tiktok can randomly save whatever you currently have on your clipboard or any basic note/document applications you have on your phone (again, when the app isn't even open), and on top of all that, when it sends your data, most of it is sent using http instead of https, meaning it's unsecured, meaning ANYONE could access the data TikTok has on you

If it is on a government officials device, it is literally a national security threat

If it's on your device, well honestly who fucking knows what they're doing with all your info

4

mintmouse t1_jb4iqy7 wrote

Where does banning this put the pirate bay

1

dotnetdotcom t1_jb4mqc5 wrote

Replying to t0slink (#2,171,046)

Take it to court. It'll get thrown out because you have no standing. People have tried. The way it is now, nobody has standing, any case brought against them will get thrown out. (To have standing you must have been uniquely harmed or harmed more than other people by the govt.) They would have to use some of their collected data in a court case for someone to bring a 4th amendment case against them, but they dont do that. If the government needs data for a court case, they'll buy it from data brokers to skirt the 4th amendment.

1

TristanDuboisOLG t1_jb4nbqs wrote

Still no consumer data protection laws on the ballet? Way to miss the point.

12

TooManyLangs t1_jb4nmj2 wrote

so, are we banning Facebook, Twitter, etc in Europe now? or what?

2

whyreadthis2035 t1_jb4osye wrote

Not gonna read this. You lost me at could. This is America and money is involved. There will be no ban. Just look at how many people are defending tik tok and using other companies as excuses. We want our data mined and our content manipulative. And we’re OK with the growing bodily of evidence that social media is harming the psyche of our young. Yay!

−1

Duck_Duckens t1_jb4pwgi wrote

Instead of, you know, passing legislation arround the right to privacy and ownership of your own data, because then they have to stop doing it too.

9

[deleted] t1_jb4r2vv wrote

If this happens, I’ll bet you $5 Elon Musk will revive Vine to replace TikTok.

1

liv2kik t1_jb4r3jm wrote

They should ban meta and google then if they are really concerned with data collection

6

wassomini t1_jb4rzqg wrote

I wish I had a dollar for every headline that talked about a "possible" TikTok ban.

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cambridge65 t1_jb4spr7 wrote

I think TIkTOK has got it right in terms of entertainment, but because of the nation that controls it, yes it should go!...or be vastly tightened up.

−2

Fun_Breadfruit_4471 t1_jb4tfkc wrote

Not to mention the mental health issues it’s created in our younger generations. The difference I felt after deleting tik tok was insane. Please ban it

−2

Realistic-Duck-922 t1_jb4tlrs wrote

Just get rid of all social media. Reddit included for all I care. It's all garbage.

6

monchota t1_jb4uccp wrote

Should of been done years ago.

−1

fegodev t1_jb4x9l9 wrote

TikTok is that good that Big tech had to lobby so it gets banned. Pathetic.

2

Jaymez82 t1_jb4xfu5 wrote

Why would I care about TikTok gathering my data? What possible value could that data have? Oh, this person like cute animal videos and falls for the occasional thirst trap.

9

NameLips t1_jb50buq wrote

Wow, are they going to ban every app that harvests personal information?

13

yamatuner t1_jb53yeu wrote

Probably has less to do with our security and more to do with selling the data to foreign companies instead.

3

Carnba t1_jb54dz2 wrote

I think this bill is a slippery slope. If approved it seems to lay the groundwork to dismantle the first amendment

4

Tsobaphomet t1_jb55m97 wrote

I never really understood the fear of data collection. You can google a random name and you will be able to see that person's current address, past addresses, their phone number, their children's names, their children's phone numbers, their parent's names/numbers/addresses, grandparents, neighbors, etc, who they have voted for, what they do for a living, the store they work at, their social media accounts, every picture they have taken over the past 15 years, the school they graduated from, their friends from highschool, a random picture of them smiling on google images, and so much more.

I'm not even making that up. Half of it is just one google search away, the rest would take digging, but seriously, we do not have the privacy people are so desperate to defend. So what if an app like facebook uses the information they gather to serve you targeted ads.

If you say the words "Kraft Macaroni" outloud, your phone will hear it and start showing you ads for Kraft Macaroni. Since I've just typed "Kraft Macaroni" three times, I will most likely start getting ads for it within the next 2 days.

Long story short, banning a fun app doesn't fix anything, it just makes people a little more miserable than they should be.

1

nicuramar t1_jb56qwf wrote

Replying to irn (#2,171,071)

> If someone could differentiate the difference in TikTok feed algorithm between every country beside China you would see a difference on what gets shown.

I think it's much more sensitive to what you seem to consume, no?

1

Tsobaphomet t1_jb583fa wrote

Replying to ericneo3 (#2,170,860)

Yeah I wonder when people will realize that the average US citizen has been getting scammed their whole life.

One fun example is how the US is the only country in the world where you will get shamed for not moving out of your family home in your 20s. It's totally normal everywhere else in the world to live with your family forever.

The scam here is that more people will be encouraged to leave home to pay $2000 a month for an apartment. It prevents them from ever saving up money, and keeps them working for the rest of their life to chase the carrot on a stick. If they do manage to break free from renting, they'll be paying $750,000 for a home that should be $120,000.

Every single thing in this country is designed for someone to get a lot of money.

7

FelopianTubinator t1_jb58chb wrote

They should also ban it on the basis that a lot of these TikTok videos and challenges are dangerous and irreparably harm the cognition of teens and adults alike.

2

outsmartedagain t1_jb58jnh wrote

All of this because y’all pranked the orange clown’s reelection campaign That’s what they are really afraid of-not being able to control our youth

2

BoxerguyT89 t1_jb59sub wrote

Replying to atwegotsidetrekked (#2,170,864)

That's not how this works. You are the one making the claim that they are selling the data, therefore, it is on you to provide that evidence.

You haven't done that, and nobody gives a shit about how much Reddit karma you have.

2

joevsyou t1_jb5am2k wrote

Gotta help other companies who collect the same shit to sell theirs.

6

atwegotsidetrekked t1_jb5b887 wrote

Replying to BoxerguyT89 (#2,172,566)

It is how it works, I have posted 2 solid articles. Here is a third that specifically calls out meta in the first sentence

https://www.scmagazine.com/news/privacy/consumer-privacy-protections-data-brokers-sell-mental-health-info

I have backed up my claim. The poster was a troll who only gaslighted and didn’t even try to back his claim that meta and google didn’t sell data to brokers.

−1

BoxerguyT89 t1_jb5cgeh wrote

Replying to atwegotsidetrekked (#2,172,636)

You still don't get it or you are being purposefully obtuse. That article alleges that healthcare providers are sharing PHI with Meta, not that Meta or Google are selling data to brokers. Meta being sued is also not evidence that they are selling data to brokers.

How can he prove that Google and Meta aren't selling the data to brokers? That's like asking to prove that God doesn't exist.

Do they monetize your data by targeting ads based on it? Of course, but that's not the same thing.

You are the one making the claim and the sources you have provided do not show that at all.

2

atwegotsidetrekked t1_jb5fh8h wrote

Replying to BoxerguyT89 (#2,172,695)

I honestly don’t know why I am responding at this point except to stop disingenuous comments

On Google’s servers

After the data leaves your device, it goes to one of several downstream services, like Google’s own Ad Exchange. Google collects bid requests from all over the Internet: from both sites and apps; from phones, computers, game consoles, and TVs; and from its own as well as competing SSPs. Then it presents those bid requests to hundreds of “authorized buyers”—demand side platforms that represent advertisers. Each of those DSPs has access to a firehose of personal information about millions of different users on all different devices. Google runs billions of ad auctions per day; in the process, it shares data about millions of people and receives millions of dollars from advertisers.

The data being transferred here is all associated with at least one unique ID: this could be the ad ID which identifies your phone, the cookie ID stored in your browser, or Google’s own internal ID for your account. Either way it ties back to you. It can include geolocation information, gender, age, and interests.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/03/google-says-it-doesnt-sell-your-data-heres-how-company-shares-monetizes-and

And meta isn’t just selling data to the nsa data brokers, but Russia and China (and Bannon’s data analytics)

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-46618582

I am done I made the case. I don’t care about pr campaigns on socials trying to whitewash bad behavior

−1

Looluee t1_jb5gs4v wrote

I hope they actually go through with banning TikTok.

0

BoxerguyT89 t1_jb5k59z wrote

Replying to atwegotsidetrekked (#2,172,827)

> I honestly don’t know why I am responding at this point except to stop disingenuous comments

Same here.

> Data brokers purchase the data and just sell it to the NSA without legal approval.

Your words. Purchase from whom?

In the EFF article you linked:

> And companies like Google shouldn’t be able to monetize data they collect without consent even if they aren’t technically “selling” it.

Does Google monetize our personal data? Yes, everyone knows that, and if that is your point, you are correct.

Your link regarding Meta, from 2018, also mentions indirectly "selling" the data using similar methods to Google.

> I don’t care about pr campaigns on socials trying to whitewash bad behavior

Anyone that doesn't agree with me is a shill, got it.

2

WhatTheZuck420 t1_jb5qmj7 wrote

Data collection concerns?

WTAF?

Google, Microsoft, Oracle, Adobe, Apple, AT&T, Verizon, Oath, Facebook, Yahoo, Twitter, and about 12 dozen miniature data leach companies. There should be concerns here at home.

2

cookingboy t1_jb5srm4 wrote

Replying to PerfectPercentage69 (#2,171,004)

That is misinformation.

Just out of the big companies, I can think of Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo, LinkedIn, Skype operate in China.

> even without a specific concern.

They do have specific concerns, a big one is their lack of ability to enact censorship on foreign platforms.

And of course, PRISM has shown that NSA has infiltrated all the major American tech companies.

0

TSnowCrash t1_jb5v0uh wrote

I love all the fear mongering over data collection from Tik Tok but absolute silence from all the data collection form Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, etc.

2

Ill-Manufacturer8654 t1_jb61sd4 wrote

So what's going to stop China from just buying the same data from Google and Facebook?

1

sheeeeeez t1_jb61w2m wrote

Doesn't every iphone need an iCloud/Apple ID account? Doesn't every Android need a google/microsoft/Samsung account?

How are those more trustworthy for people outside of the US, than TikTok and Huawei?

−1

theoneronin t1_jb669d1 wrote

They should inspect all imports for monitoring devices. Corn is all ears, I hear.

1

Hoppiness83 t1_jb684km wrote

Some be benefits are the average IQ of teenagers should increase and doing away with a TON of "influencers".

All upside and no real downside.

−1

JohanGrimm t1_jb6amjj wrote

Replying to PastTense1 (#2,170,369)

Because one is foreign and one is domestic? Typically with "national security" things the foreign access is a bigger concern than domestic is. Especially so when it's a major global rival like China.

Throw heat on shitty US companies, they deserve it, but this "well what about American companies stealing data!" is just sidestepping the legitimate issues with TikTok.

−1

lovepuppy31 t1_jb6e6q2 wrote

If there's one thing that republicans and democrats can agree on is banning Tik Tok.

0

DuckDuckJeeper t1_jb6eeju wrote

Oh hell no! The world will come to a grinding, f’ing halt if narcissistic idiots can’t record themselves

1

Charming_Ad_4 t1_jb6jrqb wrote

American propaganda at its finest when US companies simply are outcompeted by Chinese

1

SomethingMatter t1_jb6kzxm wrote

Replying to cookingboy (#2,173,416)

People inside China don't access the Microsoft servers in the west. They access servers hosted and operated by a different company in China. Try and use yahoo search inside of China. Stop pretending that information and services aren't tightly controlled by the CCP in China. They are.

Go on, insult Xi and see how far you get. Go and protest in the streets and see what happens to you.

4

SomethingMatter t1_jb6liki wrote

This is a good read:

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2023/02/banning-tiktok.html

> At best, the TikTok ban considered by Congress would be ineffective; at worst, a ban would force us to either adopt China’s censorship technology or create our own equivalent.

and

> If we want to address the real problem, we need to enact serious privacy laws, not security theater, to stop our data from being collected, analyzed, and sold—by anyone. Such laws would protect us in the long term, and not just from the app of the week.

2

zUdio t1_jb6mfbm wrote

Replying to wassomini (#2,171,663)

It’s being pushed by Meta. Meaning their lobby groups are brigading socials to push out the debate that we could ban a foreign tech company, which is obvious non-sense. It’s getting to the top each time because they employ upvote bots.

You’re supposed to debate this issue as if banning a rival economy’s business in a “free market” is at all on the table or ethical or moral or reasonable or enforceable or legal. It’s none of those things and most everyone knows it. This is why there needs to be more posts..

4

saanity t1_jb6pxaj wrote

Free market until it's not.

3

Emperor_Neuro- t1_jb6uhsy wrote

Only Americans are allowed to steal data from Americans!

3

Smith6612 t1_jb6uns3 wrote

Replying to cookingboy (#2,173,416)

I believe Yahoo pulled out of China a few years ago. Some things like Yahoo Mail can still be accessed, but everything else just shows a message from Yahoo saying they've discontinued their services in the country.

1

Mr_Locke t1_jb6yh9z wrote

Banning one app from China isn't going to help. We need to ban all companies who are owned even in part by China. Tencent alone owns parts of a lot of companies.

https://dataromas.com/what-companies-does-tencent-own/

Before I get downvoted to the bottom of the sea, keep in mind that under current Chinese law any Chinese company must comply with any and all government requests. That could mean turning over user privacy data to inserting backdoors into services.

https://thehill.com/opinion/cybersecurity/532583-for-chinese-firms-theft-of-your-data-is-now-a-legal-requirement/

Edit: and that's just one Chinese company.

−1

Marda483 t1_jb76bva wrote

Less China is every aspect of life is a good thing, at least as long as they remain a communist country planning on taking over the world. The United States need to start moving away from dependency on China NOW.

0

MasterK999 t1_jb78t9e wrote

TikTok is not the problem. The problem is the phone platforms that allow very intrusive tracking for apps that do not need it.

This problem will only get solved when iOS and Android are forced to change their operating systems in a very big way.

A video sharing app should not be able to track location or any other data beyond what you watch inside their app. When that underlying problem is addressed then our phones will not be voluntary spying devices we carry with us willingly.

1

Stan57 t1_jb7nne5 wrote

So how is Microsoft,Google,Apple,Facebook any different? They all collect huge amounts of data from users, unregulated as far as i can tell too.

3

VoidAndOcean t1_jb7r93k wrote

Replying to nicuramar (#2,172,428)

It doesn't really matter. At that point it becomes about trade: you ban our products so we can't make money in your country so we ban yours.

Can't have a one-sided trade barrier. its bullshit.

1

smnhdy t1_jb97mv9 wrote

Wouldn’t it be crazy if they just introduced proper privacy laws… rather than focusing on apps and platforms owned by non US entities…

2

pickles55 t1_jbbn3zd wrote

Replying to smnhdy (#2,177,533)

That's the last thing they want. Privacy was the basis that Roe v. Wade was decided on so right wing politicians are against privacy. The people naturally want privacy and Republicans will tell their voters that TikTok is spyware and banning it preserves their privacy. This is how it works now, part of the country is its own reality distortion field and it's pointless to argue with them.

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pickles55 t1_jbbnzj6 wrote

Replying to Hoppiness83 (#2,174,105)

They're not banning social media. They still want a steady crop of radicalized kids to manipulate into voting for them, they're just afraid china is using TikTok to spy on the US government

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smnhdy t1_jbbp9lu wrote

Replying to pickles55 (#2,181,291)

Oh there’s no doubt in my mind that US politics is simply theatrics… who gets the most airtime or columns in the paper… It’s not been about serving the country for decades.

It all started falling to shit once the FCC Fairness Doctrine was abolished in the 80’s. Once that happened… trump/fox et al was almost certain.

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pickles55 t1_jbbppjd wrote

Replying to Tsobaphomet (#2,172,372)

They're talking about banning it from state owned devices. Your app doesn't just know what you ate for lunch, it knows everywhere you go and it collects information about the networks it's connected to. Depending on the permissions (social media apps ask for basically everything possible) they can store your camera roll, text messages, emails, even some passwords if you're not careful. For most people the worst they could fear from that would be identity theft, maybe blackmail. If that's on a state owned ipad they could get all kinds of sensitive information. Most of the people who get recruited to do espionage are not James bond types, they're janitors and receptionists. All a bad actor needs is a way to get into the network and they can wreak all kinds of havoc or spy undetected for months. It seems like this issue is being used for culture war but there is a real problem.

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DevAnalyzeOperate t1_jbdxin9 wrote

Replying to zUdio (#2,174,668)

The main reason I wanted to do this was because of Forbes reporting on TikTok spying on journalists. https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2022/12/22/tiktok-tracks-forbes-journalists-bytedance/?sh=607f09b47da5

I'll also point out that if you're concerned about the free market - why are you more concerned with this potential ban in America than the ongoing ban of YouTube and Twitter and Facebook and Google in China? A free market doesn't exist and there is a one sided trade barrier. Also banning a business that's a competitor to a western business, even doing that explicitly for that reason, particularly when china has already enacted similar trade barriers (thus meaning there would be no breaking of any treaty under international law) can indeed be enforceable and legal. If you ban TikTok from the mainstream it won't have the nessecary content and social network to survive.

In terms of being ethical/moral/reasonable, my concern is actually the impact it would have on younger generations, I don't know why the fuck anybody would be concerned about what Meta thought about the issue. TikTok is a massive part of youth culture. These are all subjective things though. all I can say is objectively keeping China in control of the social media platform most western youth use is objectively a huge intelligence boon as well as an economic and military advantage.

The biggest argument I will give against the sale is that China already moved their datacenters to the US so it might simply be overkill to also force them to say, divest TikTok to a US owned entity in exchange for a payout.

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zUdio t1_jbeeq1v wrote

Replying to DevAnalyzeOperate (#2,184,507)

So, because of some nebulous brainwashing argument. Got it. We should literally ban religion then; there are still people who believe they “meet their family” when they die. Like delusional coping mechanisms that cloud their existence. Making people think they have some permanent existence after death causes people to do weird shit that slows society down and makes everyone uncomfortable. Yet we allow people to walk around believing in delusions.

Maybe let’s start with the real brainwashing bullshit first.

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DevAnalyzeOperate t1_jbgb3y3 wrote

Replying to zUdio (#2,185,224)

What are you even talking about? Did you even read the linked story? Do you know ANYTHING about why TikTok is in hot water and the problems people have with it?

My problem in this case is obviously national security in the context of spying, otherwise I wouldn't single out TikTok. I suppose being able to use TikTok as a propaganda machine to brainwash the public is possible too, their data scientists brainwash people into clicking on ads for products and services, it shouldn't be conceptually impossible to brainwash people into for instance clicking on links to Chinese propaganda. Those guys are the real brainwashers of society, not pathetic has-been religions.

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zUdio t1_jbgjpro wrote

Replying to DevAnalyzeOperate (#2,188,237)

> their data scientists brainwash people into clicking on ads for products and services

you have no clue how any of this works. I work as a data scientist (with experience in social) and algos work by auto-selecting whatever it is, out of the millions of features you serve it, works to make you click or stay on screen longer. When it notices you spend more time looking at cats, it servers more things related to cats. There is no data scientist “brain washing” people.

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DevAnalyzeOperate t1_jbgt236 wrote

Replying to zUdio (#2,188,520)

You are literally describing how data scientists can systemically modify behaviour while denying that they can lol. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Nobody would pay data scientists a cent if they couldn't get people to click on the advertising links they wanted them to click on at the end of the day. Their purpose is manipulation on the behest of moneyed interests (and potentially national interests). That's the game - behaviour modification - but I guess it's easier to retain staff when they believe a lie.

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