Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

vtsandtrooper t1_j640yzv wrote

It feels like its a handful of people doing this. It would take a bait car or undercover police doing something… but they keep complaining they cant do anything about it.

As a citizen im half way to creating a bait car just to stop the stupidity

183

coocookuhchoo t1_j6437pu wrote

Successful strategies to reduce violent crime have long realized this. Whether the solution is going after that small group and putting as many in jail for as long as possible, as has historically been done, or going after that group and trying to give them the resources they need to do better, as has just recently been successful in West Baltimore, it starts with identifying the relatively small group of people responsible for most of the violent crime.

93

ballastboy1 t1_j643zrd wrote

Many people are poor. Only a tiny fraction of a percent of poor people commit repeat violent crimes.

The young men who harass, assault, carjack, etc. do it because it is learned behavior with few to no consequences. Their parents are neglectful or incompetent, their peers, friend groups, and small subculture glorify and celebrate this behavior. How do you change the beliefs these young men have, how do you fix willfully incompetent parents?

DC launched a program to identify people at high-risk of committing or being targeted by gun violence using evidence-backed and data-backed approaches. A majority of gun violence is committed by a small social network of men who generally know each other. This program found most high-risk men (eg, had a history of carrying guns, committing violent crime, or living with men who do so) didn’t want to be identified or offered job training assistance, mental health services or diversionary support. How does a government fix that? I don’t know.

95

coocookuhchoo t1_j6451pd wrote

It's an incredibly difficult issue. Group Violence Reduction Strategy, the program I referenced in Baltimore's Western, combines both alternative solutions with traditional policing and prosecution. It was successful enough that they are expanding it city-wide.

35

FIFA95_itsinthegame t1_j64hxz7 wrote

Cash. With the only string attached being don’t commit violent crime. If the only consideration is preventing violent crime, then identifying those likely to commit the crime and paying them not to will always be the cheapest, most effective, and most humane way to prevent crime.

There might be good reasons for a government not to do that, but none of those reasons are related to crime prevention.

−8

IronKokomo t1_j650gws wrote

Does this not suffer from the “paying to kill pests” problem where people will start breeding pests/committing crime so they can be paid to stop?

11

FIFA95_itsinthegame t1_j653clk wrote

Only in a society with very high levels of wealth inequality.

The risk of committing a violent crime or even a property crime isn’t what stops most people from commuting that crime. Rather it’s a lack of necessity and aversion to violence/immorality.

−3

The_Herder12 t1_j64bt4e wrote

The thing is usually the groups are known by any decent officer and detective. You know where the car will most likely turn up at. The issue is 1 arresting a juvinile os a waste of time because nothing is done and 2 when they flee you are better off to let it go because they will kill themselves or someone else

36

PanAmargo t1_j64n4ax wrote

They can’t chase

5

The_Herder12 t1_j64pq2k wrote

For felonies they can (fresh carjacked vehicle) I just wouldn’t recommend it if I was them risk isn’t worth catching them

9

adminsarepedoslol t1_j659ih5 wrote

This, especially after a DC jury gave that police officer life in prison because the felon he was chasing drove into oncoming traffic and got himself killed

16

PanAmargo t1_j65f8mz wrote

I think it’s only for ongoing violent crimes - a call about a carjacked vehicle I dint think so

6

The_Herder12 t1_j65zxaf wrote

Correct but if the carjacking happens very recently like within 2 hrs it will be authorized, or of course shootings/homicide but again very limited time frame

0

BoozAlien t1_j64b0na wrote

>it starts with identifying the relatively small group of people responsible for most of the violent crime

I was just having this discussion with some friends. While it may seem like the city is overrun with violent criminals if you spend too much time watching the news or reading this sub, it seems more likely that there are much smaller groups of repeat offenders committing most of these acts. Like the huge number of wheel thefts: the fact that nobody (as far as I know) has even been arrested for this makes it almost certain that a single highly organized and skilled team of people are responsible for pretty much all of them.

32

sl8rfan2 t1_j64hn1k wrote

I chased a couple of young males away from the cars in our parking lot two years ago. they were unbolting the wheels from a new Honda Accord. They ran across the street to their piece of shit white 90s honda accord and took off. The cameras in the shopping center picked up their picture, the car, the plates.

I was contacted by the police to ID these guys and was able to easily based on the fact that they were photographed doing the exact same thing a few days earlier. I followed up several weeks later and was told that no arrests have been made.

The police know who is doing this...they aren't doing anything about it.

Also, can we find out which auto body shop or supplier is buying these wheels and bring down the hammer on them as well?

I dunno..this shit is exhausting.

48

acdha t1_j64ztqv wrote

> Also, can we find out which auto body shop or supplier is buying these wheels and bring down the hammer on them as well?

This is a very good question: going after the money is effective and it’s not especially hard because the seller has to have some level of public presence. I know MPD did this with bike thefts during the Lanier era because they busted some shops buying bait bikes and it seems like a similar approach would work here — or doing something like having an undercover officer buy the fake tags being sold on Facebook.

12

Swampoodle1984 OP t1_j643ovn wrote

I think the main issue is that juveniles are being arrested for carjacking and then are almost immediately released by the DC Attorney General's office. The 15 year old who was recently arrested for 8 carjackings had been arrested before for carjacking. The teens who killed the Uber Eats driver in the carjacking had been arrested before for attempted carjacking.

Somewhat related, I wish MPD could set up bait cars for all of the wheel/rim thefts. Even just put some sort of tracking device hidden on the rims. Someone has to be buying all of these things from the criminals.

55

spince t1_j64cjol wrote

>Somewhat related, I wish MPD could set up bait cars for all of the wheel/rim thefts. Even just put some sort of tracking device hidden on the rims. Someone has to be buying all of these things from the criminals.

This makes too much sense so pretty certain they'll never do it.

Follow the supply chain and where the wheels end up. The shops and dealers reselling the stolen wheels have a lot more to lose than the wheel thieves.

12

RatherSleepIn t1_j654tby wrote

They've done this. Not all the carjackers are the guys who only do hop ins.

4

blinchik2020 t1_j673u83 wrote

I believe many of them steal the cars to commit drive-by and other shootings, not just for parts.

1

Smipims t1_j64nr3b wrote

I’ve long opined that vigilantism is going to be the obvious result of the failures by the council and police. Best of luck!

15

No-Lunch4249 t1_j64rvap wrote

A lot of the time when there’s a spree of similar crimes, it’s one group. I remember reading years ago about a string of car break-ins in Philly, cops realized they were targeting certain makes from before a certain year, set out a bait car, caught the people doing it, and immediately the breakins slowed almost to a halt

7

The_Herder12 t1_j64blx1 wrote

Bait cars is more for jump in stolen not carjackings. If you put UC officers out there to be carjacked that won’t go over well when police start shooting these dudes trying to rob them at gunpoint

4

[deleted] t1_j64d5tk wrote

[deleted]

12

The_Herder12 t1_j64eixn wrote

I don’t disagree but looking out it from a subjective standpoint I’m pretty sure people will burn the city down after multiple police involved shootings related to carjackings. I can see it now “he didn’t know it was a police officer” “they are only targeting the young Black juveniles” “they didn’t need to kill him it’s just a car”

20

[deleted] t1_j64eyh8 wrote

[deleted]

10

Formergr t1_j669n1i wrote

Has that completely died now? (ie the calls for "truth" etc)

3

WealthyMarmot t1_j67rq7b wrote

The media attention mostly died after they learned that the guy who shot him wasn't white

3

opheodrysaestivus t1_j64w9ny wrote

>“they didn’t need to kill him it’s just a car”

...do you think this is an unfair statement?

−8

CowboyAirman t1_j65sqik wrote

Where do you draw your line?

“they didn’t need to kill them. It’s just a house.”

Why is a car different? If you came in my house with a gun I’d shoot you as well.

7

opheodrysaestivus t1_j65ulwb wrote

Personally I don't believe anyone deserves to die over property. I especially don't believe the police should get to decide who dies.

−3

CowboyAirman t1_j660shx wrote

The one using lethal force against me decided. When will you understand this? What, they have to pull the trigger first?

7

opheodrysaestivus t1_j69lfwh wrote

I'm not saying you can't defend yourself in these situations. What I'm saying is no one's life is worth a fucking car. If you think otherwise that's just sad.

1

CowboyAirman t1_j69m7j0 wrote

This is backpedaling via a strawman. Literally no one has claimed or inferred otherwise. It’s always been about defending from aggression. But I will not feel bad for anyone that is killed who was using lethal force to take from others.

1

jameson71 t1_j66c5os wrote

Personally I don’t believe you or any other citizen should get to decide what property of mine I will be allowed to keep.

3

opheodrysaestivus t1_j69krw6 wrote

I'm not sure what you're talking about, I said no one deserves to die over stolen property. I didn't say anything about what you are "allowed" to keep, whatever that means

1

The_Herder12 t1_j6602q0 wrote

Yes I do, they are committing a violent act this isn’t someone jumping in because you left your keys in it this is someone pulling a firearm on you and ripping you out of your vehicle

7

opheodrysaestivus t1_j69l81b wrote

That's pretty grim. you're creating an excuse for the death penalty for crimes of desperation.

1