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Yes 🌏🌎🌍

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The Ukrainians need real help sir! Not a few tokens of gesture.

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Well...if they double it in a few weeks.. and EU nations matched, that would be formidable. Especially if backed with air support. You can see the swell growing.

8 down, 74 to go.

We need to send more, but even 4 tanks (for a total of 8 pledged by Canada) is an extra tank platoon. We're some way away from refurbishing and sending 50 tanks as suggested by a retired Canadian general recently [e: source], but 8 is 10% of our Leo 2 MBT force.

Just send the whole dam fleet of leopards and have America give us discounts Abrams

The 4 tanks we sent earlier must be needing parts already (given to the state of our armed forces)

I watched an interview with Anand (defense minister) and she was repeatedly asked how many of our Leopard 2s were in operational condition, but she avoided the question in such a way it was pretty clear the answer would be a small number. I'm all for sending our tanks, but they are only helpful to Ukraine if they are operational and reliable.

Yeah, I think that the guy you're responding to doesn't understand that Canada's ramping up and doing what it can given it's relatively small military. As an American, I'm glad for what Canada's doing and together with other like-minded countries, we're going to get this done for Ukraine.

Part may be useful as well, but that is tricky and depends on what maintenance they have time todo and what parts are hard to get new '

Canada should be cognizant since it ranks last for military strength in the G7 bloc.

You just can’t say any negative about Justin Teflon on Reddit or other media.

cognizant kŏg′nĭ-zənt adjective Fully informed; conscious. synonym: aware. Having cognizance or knowledge. (of). Aware; fully informed; having understanding The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th

Okay, as a Canadian I am aware of this.

Now what

They would be sending operational tanks.

Yeah because the only country we have to worry about defensively outspends the rest of the world combined so it's awful hard to justify spending more on land forces when we have more than enough to fulfill our peacekeeping duties now that we have transports to actually move our stuff around.

Canada's military spending needs to be focused on creating a navy that can adequately patrol and protect our northern sea routes for our allies to use commercially. I think that will provide more benefit to our allies than spending money keeping 80 or 100 tanks at 100% readiness at any moment.

And? No one's going to be attacking Canada.

Yeah. Boats and planes should be main priority.

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Lol. Don’t mess with Canada. We were very effective in both wars with a small population and small budget.

I’ve thought about invading for the poutine…but then the border guard was like “yeah, just go here, they have the best and safe travels” and it’s like… ruining all the fun…

You can work with Germany to returbish them in the meantime

Serious question. What approvals does Trudeau require to make such commitments? A large part of me says,

“fuck yeah, let’s help Ukraine however we can”.

Another part of me says.

“Let’s not lid of Russia and make ourselves a target”. Z

Not the rest of the world combined anymore but it's still a lot so I get your point.

As a Canadian tanker, no thank you.

Replacement Leopards or the new Panther plz.

Noob question but curious why? Are the Abrahams not good?

Outsider perspective: Yes you are right. I mean if you had the logistics to keep the jet fuel in the tank for the Abrahms, maybe, but you would also have to be good at protecting the logistics... just stick with the conventional stuff, perfectly good tanks.

Well they have a minority government but even then, all the parties seem on board with Supporting ukraine. Even the separatists

That's a great idea. Working closely with the USN would provide you a great advantage when building and training a naval fleet. It would be a useful asset in a useful place.

meh

i had a lot more to say but i'll give you a chance

what did we do to stop commie CCP Chinese

no one wants to conquer a vast iceberg....with people who say 'eh' after every sentence ...../s

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I want Canadian engineers to design the most bad ass fighter jet and call the “The Goose”

They dont work too well in the cold climates and from what i’ve heard are a pain to keep running in the winter compared to the leopard 2s

Also the Abrams are extremely overweight like the british challenger 2s and are overall not fit for our terrain

Tis a good thing that Canada is all hippies, and spend only 1.37% on military expenditures, else this would be concerning.

They're a great tank, just not for the Canadian use case. Like most military equipment, a lot of the options are good, but your situation and needs will dictate the best option.

I want this too, but it'd be billions of dollars in development, and if the F-35s cost 90 mil each, I can't see how we're going to have more than a handful operational geese. Also, we don't have a carrier for them, so they'd just go to waste. I can't even imagine how long it would take for Canada to develop a 6th generation fighter that will be better than whatever the USA comes up with. The Russian Su35 and Chinese J20s are both 5th generation and behind the F35 by a noticeable margin. Not to ego boost the USA military, but they do have the best most experienced engineers.

Abrams can run on multiple types of fuel.

*Abrams

Su35 is not 5th gen

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If the report in January is true, and only 15 are said to be operational and ready to use for the Canadian Forces, we're going to need to replenish - and soon. One hopes the Liberals find a way to get over their disdain for military funding and procurement and equip our forces properly.

That said, if Ukraine needs them, even the ones in a state of disrepair, then we should be sending them. I don't care if the next shipment is just boxes of parts, if they can use them, then do it lol

Last report I remember seeing was that the number was potentially as low as 15.

8 may very well be half of our operational 2A4's at this point lol

That was the most manly sounding talk I’ve ever heard out of Trudeau. No stuttering or er,um, or whining. Straight up FUCK YOU PUTIN.

Canada should turn this into a jobs program. Design and build a tank comparable to the abrams and leopard. Design and build a jet more suited to Canada’s needs (Avro arrow).

Avro Arrow wasn't allowed because it was better than the jets in the US military at the time.

Turns out if you put enough zeroes on the end of the pricetag, shit gets done :)

lol wut

What does Canada need tanks for anyway? I mean, outside of NATO assistance it's extremely unlikely that Canada is ever attacked in a land war - to the south there is only the USA and on the Eastern front there's Alaska (again USA) to protect against possibly dumb AF Russians.

Wouldn't it be better to use the money and staff for something like naval or aerial assets?

There is a reason the leopard is so popular internationally. Indigenous tank programs are pricey money pits.

They’d be better off doing licensed manufacturing of leopards or some other tank.

That being said, our old fleet of leopard C2’s that they were shopping to foreign countries might still be donatable

Canada needs tanks for land deployments (like when we where in Afghanistan) but its something that has less value for us for sure then air or naval assets. So my 2cents is that even if all our leopards aren't working, send them all. Get broken ones repaired in Germany or use them for parts... we can get new tanks later(new leopards, panthers or w/e). Ukraine needs them now!

The Russian version is to make enough dudes wear toe tags

Canada does not have a great need for armored forces. I understand the reasons it maintains an armored force, but there won't be a "caught with their pants down" situation because of some missing tanks

This has been the predominant view of canada This has been a topic of discussion since the end of the Great War. Fact is, we don’t know what might be asked of the Canadian Army in the future, but it’s been proven time and time again that tanks are a critical component of any combined arms force when the enemy knows their business and is even moderately well equipped. That’s why we are sending them and that’s why we need more to replace the ones we send… like now.

I almost thought Canada had its own tank design for a minute there. That would have been pretty sick.

The Avro Arrow is a bit of Canadian mythology - it was an interceptor that was cancelled in the late 50's that Canadians lionize because it was better than what the US and UK were using at the time (at the time being the keyword there).

By all accounts it was a solid interceptor and could break Mach 2 (with one model aiming for Mach 3). But at the time we were becoming less concerned with bombers carrying nuclear payloads and more concerned with ICBMs so the program was cancelled and all models destroyed (except for one that was hidden away, according to the myths).

In truth it might have been a high end interceptor, and the designers certainly knew what they were doing (after cancellation a lot of them went south and got jobs working for US aerospace contractors. It was certainly a fine attempt given Canada's limitations (fewer people means fewer skilled designers and engineers to build the thing). But A couple years after the Arrow was cancelled the US launched the F-106, which had superior qualities to the Arrow (as it existed, not as might have been with the Mach 3+ model) across the board.

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>Abrams tanks run on a "gas turbine engine which needs jet fuel," Kirby said. "So there's a specific type of fuel that powers the Abrams, and we've got to make sure that pipeline—literally and figuratively—is available to Ukraine."

https://www.newsweek.com/us-abrams-tanks-fueling-problems-ukraine-1776639

The article goes on to mention that it can run on other types of fuel, but no one has done so to their knowledge. There is no "idle", the turbine runs continuously after ignition so, if/when they do use another fuel, the same problem arises only with a different fuel. The Abrahms is a HUGE fuel hog. That's the problem.

If only we could arm our own army, then maybe our recruitment in Canada wouldn't be at an all-time low.

>Canada does not have a great need for armored forces.

Yes, yes we do. The idea that we don't is the sort of conclusion that people with no defence or security policy background come to when they think about the situation. It does not represent an informed perspective.

In reality, not having strong armoured forces already got us caught with our pants down in Afghanistan--resulting in dead Canadian soldiers--and in any event in which we immediately have to deploy overseas, we will immediately be caught with our pants down again.

And while the effects of not having tanks in Afghanistan were bad, but the effects of not having tanks against an actual military force would be horrible. Canada's ground forces as a whole would be crippled.

And of course, depending on the size and scope of the conflict, Canada's ability to import tanks at any given time could be extremely limited---meaning that the country's would be unable to rapidly replenish its defensive capabilities in a time where they are desperately needed.

And this of course doesn't even factor in the need to defend against attacks on domestic soil, which we do in-fact need, even with the U.S. right next to us. "Unlikely but possible" scenarios still need to be defended against.

Not tanks no. We could sure beef up the navy though

> One hopes the Liberals find a way to get over their disdain for military funding and procurement and equip our forces properly.

Associating this with the Liberals is inappropriate given that both the Harper and Mulroney Conservative governments also slashed military budgets. Harper, in particular, provided much less support to the military than the current government does.

Canadian governments in general have been averse to funding the military since the end of the cold war.

Why, to steal islands from Denmark?

> Canada does not have a great need for armored forces

We have treaty commitments and national defense. We cannot rely on the USA. Particularly if they get another Trump idiot in office.

> not having strong armoured forces already got us caught with our pants down in Afghanistan

Tanks played a small role in Afghanistan. It was a fight for light infantry supported by air power. The only way tanks saved soldier's lives is by being armored against roadside bombs, a job done better (and more cheaply) by MRAP-style vehicles. There was no need for the treads or main cannon in Afghanistan

> in any event in which we immediately have to deploy overseas

That's something a tank can't do. They are too heavy and logistics-heavy to be quickly deployed. The armored forces Canada had in Afghanistan were reliant on US logistics as well as loaned equipment from countries like Germany and the Netherlands. An agile force is better off without too much weight

> Canada's ability to import tanks at any given time could be extremely limited

Are you calling for Canada to build its own tanks? And being able to build your own tanks means not just building your own tanks, but continuing to build new tanks for generations or else you lose the capability. This is why Canada buys jets, but it builds non-tank armored vehicles itself

> the effects of not having tanks against an actual military force would be horrible

I'm not calling for Canada to throw out its armored units. I'm saying they can send their current inventory to Ukraine without sacrificing security in any real way. The Canadian land, sea, and air units are more than capable of defending Canada. Any kind of overseas contingency that Canada would go to would be with other allies (when has Canada fought alone?) and couldn't have tanks in-theater quickly anyway

Those sneaky Danish bastards and the peaceful transfer of territory. But no really just cause we border 3 oceans so our navy shouldn't suck.

We sent them 4. Now we will send them the remaining 2.

Canada has tanks?

Why would canada even need tanks? Whos going to invade? The states?

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I’d say the opposite, I highly doubt America would let any invaders gain a foothold in North America, even if they attack Canada its in America’s best interest to not let that happen.

2nd largest population outside of Ukraine is in Canada ,although many have been displaced from the war I wonder if that holds true still

Yeah that damn Trudeau sending military aid to Ukraine

Lol we don't have enough for our own army 🙄

Oh yeah I know the story. It's just OPs comment was BS conspiracy theory.

Nope.

-44 hahaha

Definitely more in Europe now. But we also have been receiving Ukrainians here in Canada too.

The key element to remember about Canada's foreign policy is that addressing threats overseas before they become threats domestically.

Leopards were deployed to great effect in Afghanistan, for example.

Okay.

Not sure I see the whole value in the "whataboutism" here, but I'll take your point at face value as I have no cause to argue.

I totally agree.

Always waiting for the American to help. Canada could not even shoot down some balloons recently.

Never a thing to worry about our pro euthanasia neighbors

Canadians are the best meme