Comments
moxyfloxacin t1_iycdg8d wrote
I can’t imagine Ruzzia would have left those assets out there if they weren’t expecting Ukraine to roll over
hotasanicecube t1_iycdy9h wrote
It’s all tied up in real estate, businesses and equipment. It’s not like it’s all available for withdraw in a weeks notice. Could take years.
autotldr t1_iyceind wrote
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 78%. (I'm a bot)
> The European Union is looking at seizing and reinvesting frozen Russian assets - and then using the profits made on any trades to help to rebuild war-torn Ukraine.
> "We have blocked 300 billion euros of the Russian central bank reserves and we have frozen 19 billion euros of Russian oligarchs' money."
> "There is a huge pot of gold to be taken and dedicated for Ukraine's reconstruction, which are the assets of the Russian Federation and Russian oligarchs," Poland prime minister Mateusz Morawiecki said last month.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Ukraine^#2 Russia^#3 billion^#4 euros^#5
moxyfloxacin t1_iyceth5 wrote
Hundreds of billions in gold and Forex and other reserves weren’t repatriated before the war began. Even the article above refers to this as a “pot of gold”
vapescaped t1_iycezpe wrote
Because Russia thought they had leverage over the EU with their natural gas supply. Waive a wand and threaten a cold Europe and they would be left alone, or so they thought.
seekknowledge4ever t1_iycfl8l wrote
The sooner EU does it the better. It's mostly Mafia money anyways.
[deleted] t1_iychrpq wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_iycipx4 wrote
[removed]
silveira_lucas t1_iycitua wrote
The amount should be given to Ukraine.
jtb1965 t1_iycj8e6 wrote
That impacts the buyer and not the seller, your suggestion makes a bad situation worse.
Small-Fix-6133 t1_iycjrj3 wrote
PUTS on Tesla!
N01773H t1_iyckb0p wrote
Sure. But this way Ukraine gets money and the EU still has a carrot to hold over Russia to encourage them to come to the table. Without the potential to recover the frozen assets there is less pressure from the owners of said assets on the Russian government.
On the other hand, the Russian government just introduces a few oligarchs to their favourite windows if they step out of line, so the political pressure isn't that great.
____DEAFPOOL____ t1_iyckyom wrote
The winters barely bring snow any more. I'd be more worried about not having air conditioning in summer.
[deleted] t1_iyclmyx wrote
santa_obis t1_iyclpge wrote
Tell that to Northern Europe. With that being said, invest the money oligarchs stole from the Russian people, use the profits to support Ukraine, and help the Russian people rebuild their country when they take it back from the criminals running it now.
brokensoulsbroken t1_iycm7kf wrote
In a situation where options are available, taxing the seller will decrease the sales.
will_holmes t1_iycmwax wrote
This is nice and feelgood, but the process of doing this will take years, far longer than the war is expect to last. The EU has by design a lot of legal hurdles to clear, not to mention legislation, before it can give a seized asset to a third party.
At most, it might be used in service of reparations. Realistically, it probably isn't going to happen for fear of setting precedents.
Different-Scar8607 t1_iycnayt wrote
Why invest when they can just be given to Ukraine, like everything else. Ukraine is the boss now.
activator t1_iycp74v wrote
Fyi, ya don't need snow for it to be freezing cold
activator t1_iycpcfh wrote
Giving a lump sum of billions of dollars is just an open invitation for embezzlement
renome t1_iycqfyw wrote
Not if the goal is to disincentivize sales.
Brief-Floor-7228 t1_iycr0wc wrote
Because there are guns managers who will Make a lot of money in the meantime moving it back and forth into different investments.
John_Radroach t1_iyctueg wrote
Copy that
Solecism_Allure t1_iycw38e wrote
For comparison how much western or EU assets are tied up in Russia?
CG3HH t1_iycwwgy wrote
Where are you that used to have snow and now has AC?? In Germany we get almost no snow and everyone is afraid AC will make you sick 🙄
Outrageous_Duty_8738 t1_iyd2kbc wrote
Well for once the money is going to the right place
[deleted] t1_iyd543z wrote
[deleted]
[deleted] t1_iyd66io wrote
[deleted]
CodeNCats t1_iyd6p2c wrote
This is weird to me. Why invest and give profits? This seems like a really round about way to essentially take the money for your own use.
Give them the fucking money.
If the EU invests it. They will without a doubt take fees from the money under the guise of needing to pay people to invest it. That $330 billion in money will net some bankers some nice fees and some nice bonus checks. All while locking the money up for years and trickling it into Ukraine.
It's grifting and profiteering.
Important_Leather_84 t1_iyd7yi6 wrote
The problem being... while of fucking course we should help them rebuild because as of now its a clusterfuck with nuclear capabilities. But Ukraine is priority.
Russia has historically always well, shit the bed.
What was it? "Russia's history can be described in five words: " And then it got worse."
Important_Leather_84 t1_iyd83ur wrote
Dude, Germans and your fear of drafts and open windows. I'll never understand lol.
[deleted] t1_iydafun wrote
[removed]
MynameisJunie t1_iydajbs wrote
Good! Take that Putler!! No one should be supportive of him!!
[deleted] t1_iyde27u wrote
[removed]
Papa-Yaga t1_iydek5n wrote
Assuming you invest your money in a diversified index fund like the msci world or the s&p 500 your money roughly doubles every 10 years (on average in the long term). Investing a large sum of money and putting the profits to work can go a looong way and personally i have a feeling that Ukraine will still be feeling the effects of the war 10 years down the line (rebuilding stuff, clearing mines, ect.). This fund could not only help with rebuilding Ukraine, it could also generate funds that can be invested into the countries economy in the long term.
This way they would still on average recieve funds of around $23 billion each year and that for all eternity.
Obviously this is just some quick maths and oversimplifying the situation but generally speaking, if it's for a country or a private person, investing money and putting the profits to work instead of just spending the money itself is not such a bad idea after all.
KerbalFrog t1_iydeniz wrote
The problem is this move brings instability to the entire idea of the international financial system, you cant just seize a country assets, otherwise one day a country may just decide not to pay back the credors it dpesnt like, and stuff like that.
DomDomW t1_iydezjv wrote
don't wanna scare other money with questionable background out of the EU.
123xyz321Z t1_iydg0xq wrote
Please let this happen.
[deleted] t1_iydg1d5 wrote
[deleted]
anti-DHMO-activist t1_iydgmtp wrote
Not true, seizing assets has been done for as long as there was money.
This is not a new concept, there's a reason the majority of countries have laws for that on the books already.
anti-DHMO-activist t1_iydgt4a wrote
Switzerland isn't in the EU.
redsquizza t1_iydh57j wrote
The original capital may need to be given back at some point in the future, that's the point.
Whereas interest/investing profits from the original capital are easier to legally and morally extract from the frozen assets, one assumes.
Almost every war ends with negotiated peace. Frozen assets will play part of that negotiation so if you've suddenly spent it all, you've just lost a bargaining chip.
[deleted] t1_iydieb9 wrote
[deleted] t1_iydje78 wrote
[removed]
red_purple_red t1_iydjpar wrote
Now is a good time to invest in Tesla and Bitcoin while they are selling at a discount. You don't want to miss out when the next rally happens!
sanels t1_iydlip4 wrote
Russia already nationalized billions worth of airplanes at the very start of the conflict, i'm really not worried about any russian assets being seized by whomever provided they are given to ukraine for recovery efforts.
sanels t1_iydlrp9 wrote
at the very start russia literally stole billions worth of airplanes from the eu and investment by the west into their oil projects. there shouldn't be a care in the world for any russian assets being seized abroad, take it all and use it to reinforce and rebuild ukraine
KerbalFrog t1_iydmljg wrote
The difference here is I expect my country to uphold the law and hold my governament to high standadrds then the russias. I dont like this because it erodes MY freedon and security if MY governament can go around ignoring due process and law. I dont belive on stealing from thiefs ... because I dont belive in stealing.
TROPtastic t1_iydny8s wrote
What would be the legal reasoning to use money confiscated because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine to benefit the EU?
okvrdz t1_iydo4rq wrote
Most wars don’t have legal reasoning.
sanels t1_iydo9t1 wrote
If you allow others to steal from you at will and do nothing to retaliate you are just a fool then. It's the same kind of shit china does where they expect to be treated fairly abroad but at home everything has to be done through a chinese proxy and foreign companies are extremely disadvantaged and more often than not just screwed. Due process and law do not apply outside a countries own borders and for their own people, shit most of the time it doesn't even apply internally. There isn't a single country/govt that actually has a good and fair legal system there is soo much bullshittery going on everywhere it's not even funny so posing like their on some moral highground is just straight bullshit.
Corodix t1_iydotjb wrote
Could those hurdles be why they aren't giving seized assets to Ukraine, but the profits generated by those assets?
TheRC135 t1_iydqa0n wrote
People keep making this argument, but I don't see it.
Nobody is talking about arbitrary seizure of Russian money, they're talking about seizure of Russian money in response to blatant, unjustified aggression and war crimes, for the purpose of aiding the victims of Russia's atrocities. As a foreign investor that wouldn't bother me, because I don't have ties to a criminal autocracy.
Its not like every single Russian in the EU has had their assets seized... sanctions and freezes have targeted oligarchs and other individuals and companies with direct connections to Putin and the Russian government. These are the people who should pay for the war.
Beyond that, the argument that investors from other countries would be scared to invest in the EU if Russian assets are seized is nonsense. People who don't have ties to Putin aren't under any threat. The only people would would be scared away by the seizure of the assets of sanctioned Russians are others who want all the benefits of living in the civilized world while continuing to profit from corruption, exploitation, violence, and autocracy at home.
The threat of asset seizure means one of two things for such people: a) that they have a strong incentive to curtail the worst impulses of their home governments, or b) they should stay the fuck home. Either way, that's a win for the EU.
[deleted] t1_iydujht wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_iydwj7w wrote
CG3HH t1_iydwz0s wrote
Im not german and I fucking hate it too
CrieDeCoeur t1_iydxlbm wrote
Seems reasonable
Remember_NEDM t1_iydxz5b wrote
This is good for Bitcoin.
[deleted] t1_iye0hbw wrote
ThatGuyBench t1_iye2k8i wrote
Cmon, its not like all is cool and dandy here, but we don't need that money nearly as much as Ukrainian people need it.
I get that there is a lot of corruption in Ukraine, but instead we could use the money to buy and deliver things needed for rebuilding Ukrainian electric grid or helping refugees or something. It doesnt have to be help in direct cash transfer. Currently Russians were focusing their missle attacks on electric infrastructure, and now its on its last leg. In the winter when pipes will freeze, they will break. There will be no plumbing, electricity and so on. Rural places will be doing fine, but cities will be unsustainable death traps when the winter ramps up.
Here in Europe we have what? Big energy bills, few less degrees on the thermostat and less hot water usage. Petty problems compared to what Ukrainians have to deal with.
Myself, I would be happy to see if that money went to arms purchases for Ukraine, but I guess more people would have issues against that, and would be less likely to pass.
Vegetallica t1_iye2pnu wrote
> In the short term, we could create, with our partners, a structure to manage these funds and invest them," von der Leyen added. "We would then use the proceeds for Ukraine.
LOL. This is a huge grift. They and their "partners" are going to charge huge management fees on this capital. And the investments they make will conveniently be in asset vehicles that are themselves managed by their friends. Only a pittance of this will go to Ukraine.
ALL of these assets should be given to Ukraine as reparations. These clowns shouldn't be allowed to "manage" anything.
raven_oscar t1_iye2w5w wrote
Seizing is one thing spending on behalf is another one. Next step is to explane gulf states and china why should they invest in eu assets.
Zuchku t1_iye2wj4 wrote
He wanted to bring back the Soviet Union after all. Not half bad.
HalfLeper t1_iye3046 wrote
Because the EU has a stable power grid. Ukraine does not.
anti-DHMO-activist t1_iye3xva wrote
To properly contextualize this comment:
It's a low-karma account active in russia-related threads, primarily being in a spiteful pro-russian position. They for example said:
No further engagement neccessary I guess.
anti-DHMO-activist t1_iye4i6h wrote
Something that only gets claimed by random people on the internet, but not by people actually familiar with the details.
This move is absolutely not unprecedented, no matter how often you guys claim it is. And thankfully, european legislators are aware of that.
zzlab t1_iye4xt0 wrote
Pull out of Europe and invest where? Name me a country that you would put more trust in to not seize your assets
Artanthos t1_iye5047 wrote
They should invest the money into energy companies.
I hear they are paying great dividends.
Side benefit: seats on the boards of the energy companies.
Throwublee t1_iye70ev wrote
They absolutely do, it might just be very twisted.
E: there's a lot of lawyering in war, i heard some podcast about it but I can't remember which one so I googles this article
dancingteam t1_iye71hp wrote
We should take money from other countries as well. India, China, the middle east. If their citizens have money in EU we should take it and invest in our own stuff.
[deleted] t1_iye9ccq wrote
[removed]
TurboNinjaFin t1_iye9rs6 wrote
Retaliation can be dine other ways than lowering ourselves to same level with putin and steal. I think it is someways pretty European way to take the money invest it and make profit from it just to remind putler he cant do that no more
auniqueusername132 t1_iyeaido wrote
The Roman’s had a very interesting need to justify all their wars as defensive
phoenix1984 t1_iyeamqa wrote
The US should as well. We can use it to pay for the weapons and aid we send Ukraine. Delaware alone has over $1B is frozen Russian assets. I’d also be interested to see if the GOP attempts to filibuster a bill doing so.
Warior4356 t1_iyeasya wrote
When the government is run by oligarchs, where do you draw the line on what is and isn’t the Russian “government”?
SCarolinaSoccerNut t1_iyedf8y wrote
- If Ukraine suddenly becomes cash rich, then suppliers could start upcharging them for supplies. Not good for anyone except defense contractors.
- If the EU does this gradually, then they could use this as a bargaining chip against Russia. Think "we are going to liquidate $1b worth of your assets and transfer the proceeds to Ukraine each day until you withdraw from Ukraine and agree to respect their 1991 boundaries" kind of a deal. If Russian oligarchs know that there's a possibility to get their fortunes back if Russia ends the invasion, they might keep up the pressure on Putin to call it off.
Kanye_Wesht t1_iyefov3 wrote
Invest it in Ukraine.
PuckFutin69 t1_iyeh9e3 wrote
Sounds like government apologizer pr
saraphilipp t1_iyei8ph wrote
Russia gonna have to give up it's nukes if it wants help from the rest of the world once this is over.
[deleted] t1_iyelly2 wrote
[removed]
EmotionalSuportPenis t1_iyem259 wrote
Doesn't get freezing cold how it used to, either. Skating on the canals to get places used to be so common it was a Dutch stereotype, now it's relatively rare.
No_Zombie2021 t1_iyensbz wrote
Northern European here. We have insulation and fire wood. Keep the weapons flowing to Ukraine.
GlobalCoolin t1_iyenw64 wrote
Criminals stealing from criminals and giving the profits to not-sees in Ukraine..
What a lovely world in which we live..
[deleted] t1_iyeoilv wrote
Yeah super interesting. Dan Carlin talks about it quite a bit in the Celtic Holocaust podcast
[deleted] t1_iyeorl7 wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_iyeozqb wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_iyep0cr wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_iyep7zu wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_iyepdpo wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_iyepmhl wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_iyepzvt wrote
[removed]
____DEAFPOOL____ t1_iyere9g wrote
Germans are afraid of airconditioning? Lmfao I have never heard that before.
____DEAFPOOL____ t1_iyerrdb wrote
Northern Europe did pretty well before electricity and gas. I’m sure they will be fine.
Koa_Niolo t1_iyesrrw wrote
Then when they did declare war they had to announce it by ceremonially hurling a spear from Roman territory into the enemy's territory. Of course this became difficult when they declared war on Epirus and would have needed to hurl the spear across the Adriatic Sea.
So instead they built a column to represent the enemy territory that was then pelted with a spear whenever Rome went to war.
[deleted] t1_iyetnym wrote
[removed]
semiomni t1_iyeu7t6 wrote
Bigger threat to stability than forcefully seizing a countries assets and land and people?
Thatsaclevername t1_iyeurmi wrote
That was the thing that jumped out at me too, like wtf? It would be one thing if Ukraine was in the EU and this was seed money for some form of reconstruction post-war. But it sounds like the EU is just going to take the money. I'm not sure what the expected returns on investment would be on something like this, but I'm sure it's nowhere near that 300 billion total.
The whole thing seems kinda weird.
activator t1_iyev98n wrote
With temperatures just around 0°C and slight wind, it's gets plenty cold. Doesn't matter if ice/snow is more rare than before, it's still cold
Edit: Celcius
blinkybillster t1_iyevrec wrote
After fees and charges of course.
PsychYYZ t1_iyevzyf wrote
> there is less pressure from the owners of said assets on the Russian government
Oh, I'd think if I lost a billion dollars in assets (much less 330 of them) I'd be hiring an army of thugs to be crawling up the ass of my local government officials until some changes were made.
KerbalFrog t1_iyexi3v wrote
I dont think anyone is implying that, and thats why we should arm Ukraine for has long has needed.
KerbalFrog t1_iyexkug wrote
Dehumanising people is how russians got where they are, dont be the same.
CodeNCats t1_iyeytxd wrote
Very weird.
I mean. It's also weird for balance sheets. Give me 300 billion of someone else's money. I promise to give them all of the returns.
Yet I have 300 billion in assets I can leverage as collateral in loans and to put in a balance sheet.
This seems like some fuckery.
Before anyone thinks I am pro-russia. Fuck Russia and fuck putin. Glory to Ukraine.
badDNA t1_iyeyvpc wrote
Imagine one of the biggest con jobs in the history of the world unfolding in front of our eyes and everyone cheering it on. Ukraine is horribly corrupt and truly no different than Russia. What a joke. Yes let’s invest in a dumpster fire of a country where politicians wives are caught with suitcases full of cash trying to exit the country.
CG3HH t1_iyezjk8 wrote
It is nearly universal. There are 2 main reasons, fear of blowing germs around (I can kinda sorta understand this one) and the other one is that a big jump in temperature (my sister in law claims it is a difference of 8 degrees C) somehow makes your immune system unable to function. I dunno about that last one, some german should chime in.
N01773H t1_iyezws7 wrote
If the assets are in Ukraine though, wouldn't you send said army to go retrieve your assets from Ukraine instead?
taradiddletrope t1_iyf081p wrote
Put it all in FTX.
/s
dkran t1_iyf1i72 wrote
I’m confused why the EU needs to invest it and give profits to Ukraine? Why not give Ukraine a better “from the start” bonus? Sounds like bankers wanting to work some numbers.
[deleted] t1_iyf1xr7 wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_iyf25xk wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_iyf2hdu wrote
[removed]
kirlandwater t1_iyf2ve0 wrote
Ukraine is not a part of the EU so the EU would have no authority to freeze/seize assets there. This appears to just be funds that are owned by the Russian Central bank, housed within EU borders.
They’ve also seized/frozen ~$15b of Russian oligarch money but this money isn’t currently being reinvested.
throwawayadorno1 t1_iyf4abw wrote
Does anyone remember the Treaty of Versailles and its legacy?
[deleted] t1_iyf4kiq wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_iyf6rur wrote
The main problem being no matter how the spend the profits if they were to truly invest that full amount they would have too much influence on the world economy and I guarantee the group in charge of that will not take into full account or care about the full scope of investing a large sum like that at once. Some asshole will end up with too much money and abuse the system on accident or purpose.
hotasanicecube t1_iyf7q4s wrote
Last article I read was said a little less than half of the assets they actually froze were liquid. This one seems to be a little more optimistic. I’m not quite sure where the bank account numbers suddenly came from unless more countries coughed up Russias holdings.
Proper-Abies208 t1_iyfadou wrote
Just do it already. Take it, give it to Ukraine and let them rebuild the country with it. Then send Putin a letter; You break it, you pay for it.
Greedyanda t1_iyfb2in wrote
Too much influence on the world economy?
Those 300 billion are barely 1/3 of Berkshire Hathaways invested assets. The Norwegian wealth fund alone is 1.2 trillion dollars. Vanguard holds 7.2 trillion under management. BlackRock holds 10 trillion dollars under management.
It's hardly anything noteworthy.
Geuji t1_iyfehju wrote
Warren had actually said that if he were to invest Berkshires money in a index fund that the fund would no longer represent the index
AutoModerator t1_iycd85t wrote
Hi KeenlyFirst. Your submission from markets.businessinsider.com is behind a metered paywall. A metered paywall allows users to view a specific number of articles before requiring paid subscription. Articles posted to /r/worldnews should be accessible to everyone. While your submission was not removed, it has been flaired and users are discouraged from upvoting it or commenting on it. For more information see our wiki page on paywalls. Please try to find another source. If there is no other news site reporting on the story, contact the moderators.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.