"Ukraine’s air defense will become stronger and more effective in the new year; it may become the most powerful in Europe."

Good, Russian terror attacks must be hindered

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Sounds familiar

What kind of systems are they expecting for next year from supporting nations?

I know Germany currently has 7 Gepard and 3 IRIS-T on its to-do list of larger weapons, plus a bunch of drone jamming/defense systems.

And Putin will be annoyed Ukraine will get upper hand in beating his missile attack.

From NATO with love ❤️

Smootchie bootchies putin lol

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Flying pallets of cash and bags of cocaine.

I said What What in the Butt

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Ukraine has shot down 54 of the 69 missiles from Russia which has 78% of successful rate. Let's make it to 100% in 2023.

Slava Ukrani

Germany has been dragging its feet quite a bit. The U.S. patriot system is being sent if you missed that news.

Great!

A cool reply I saw to the news:

> In today's wars, there are no morals. We believe the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Russians. We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned, they are all targets.

Let's hope this air defense can be used offensively as well against Putin and his goons. Slava Ukraini! Heroyam slava!

> air defense can be used offensively

Why? First things first: the air defence needs to keep all of Ukraine safe from cruise missiles and drone attacks. Additionally to keeping military targets safe, their more normal role.

It's a big country, this would be a big achievement.

Good, I hope you do...100% takedowns please 🙏

The Defenders of Ukraine have become the Immortal Guardians of the West. We owe our comfortable lives to them. Every drop of our blood and every golden coin of our treasure must be devoted to bolstering and strengthening Ukraine and the heroes who defend her.

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Well, Germany already sent some IRIS-T and Gepards already. They are still one of the biggest military supporters of Ukraine.

putin has a very odd way to make Ukraine stronger.

I'm hoping Ukraine invests a lot into aviation and we have another boom in that industry. They have an aviation heritage with Antonov Design etc. and produced some fantastic airframes. Airframes, engines and avionics from Ukraine would ease some of the brain drain and possibly even reverse it. If they can get a Kelly Johnson-like personality pushing that industry into a revival as Ukraine rises from the ashes, it's a small light that could come out of this pointless suffering caused by Russia.

Biden said, for as long as it takes. Biden did not say as much as it takes. It will become stronger, but it will not become the most powerful in Europe. Why? all it takes is a wrong president (lets say), and it would turn around to work against the west. For as long as Ukraine is a guinea pig, it will be powerful, otherwise, not a chance... which is something that Putin and his gang have learned the hard way in the past. You simply do not cooperate with the countries or territories that at any point posed a threat or some issue. Why? simply put all money they make can be used for military or politics, which becomes an issue in a long run. Embargo is just the thing on paper... what I am talking about is something that is carried on to infinity, for as long as there is a power to execute it. You simply don't make the wrong people rich and/or powerful if you want to survive... which is pretty much the reason Russia is now acting the way they do (oh and, there are morons behind the scene too, which just amplifies it)... because they know a bit more than the rest of us. PS not trying to defend anyone/anything or take sides. This whole war thing is just wrong, and it did not happen over-night. Ukraine is paying the price, as soon as they stop paying the price, the whole thing will be forgotten and things back to the old path and the old way of doing things. None of this will be worth it and is meaningless / pointless. You can all shove the idea of heroism up your ass, it will be worth much less in a not-so-distant future. Innocent people died and will die, and that is what should matter the most. Not heroism.

You thought that was a cool reply?

"We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned, they are all targets"

What a fucking disgusting thing to say...

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Did the other Russian missiles surrender, blow themselves up, fire at each other, or just fall apart? /s

I saw a video where a Russian missile did a U turn and went right back to launch base

Source: https://youtu.be/6IwqmezeSuQ

Air defense cannot be used offensively. It typically indicates a hostile aircraft has entered your airspace. So you launch your defensive system(s) to intercept and take down the threat. How is that offensive use of an air defense?

Hmmm...do they have RTH (return to home) function like the recreation drones?

Some probably have found their targets.

They can be used offensively since they're essentially long range precision guided missiles. The problem with using them offensively is that it's not that economical. Traits that make a good missile interceptor doesn't make it a good offensive weapon.

Building it out of solid gold

Seems like an expensive way to achieve something that a howitzer can do better and cheaper

The Ukrainians already have some of the best anti-aircraft protection due to the proliferation of man-portable systems all over the country. These new anti-missile defenses are expensive, but I hope the world continues to support Ukraine in what looks like an intentional campaign of genocide against the nation.

No, they just loaded it with a list of Nazi targets.

….don’t make it weird.

Fr. Man made the vibes weird af

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Do we? I'm not disparaging what the Ukrainians are doing but the west would have been just as secure. You're talking luke Russia would have just kept its invasion going right over Europe without any opposition.

Germany can't send a system which doesn't exist. They have to build it first. Besides, Ukraine already got one (the first one in existence) IRIS-T unit, right after it rolled out of the factory.

By letting Ukraine capture his army’s equipment

That was just weird my man. I’m all for helping Ukraine because it’s the right thing to do but Russia wants zero parts in an actual conflict with NATO.

They are seeing right now what our third string surplus weapons are doing to their troops, while being used by soldiers who were just trained on them.

They might have tried to stream roll some other old USSR countries if Ukraine had laid down though. So those countries should be thankful.

NASAMS, IRIS-T, Patriot

let's not pretend Germany is even close to the US and UKs aid. Germany has kept dropping the ball when it comes to

$70 billion vs. $1.5 billion

https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/27278.jpeg this is from Oct 22 and doesn't include the additional $40B in aid

Russian S-400 air defense systems shot down Ukrainian aircraft over Ukrainian airspace during the beginning of the invasion. Seems offensive to me.

Aspide and HAWKs from Spain. US is looking into sending HAWK as well. Italy is sending their samp/t system. Crotale-NG from France. I'd say the US won't stop at 1 Patriot system and C-RAM seems like a no-brainer for very localized areas, possibly to help protect the patriots.

This guy claims that Russian air defense downed several of their own cruise missiles and a Russian jet during this attack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gZyI8EUhqQ

Does it ever become an issue that they have so many different systems from so many different countries?

Look, Boromir, we're not giving you the One Ring no matter what you say.

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So Russia does this huge damage with just 15 missiles?

Almost half of Kyiv had no power. And Russia managed this with just 15 missiles across different cities?

That logic doesn't add up.

Or do you mean out of the 69 missiles Ukraine tried to intercept they managed to take down 54? While the other ones they didn't try to intercept don't count.

Putin has to be pissed. We keep giving Ukraine weapons and the weapons are gradually becoming more sophisticated and there is not a damn thing he can do about it

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Just curious where this graph would count the many ring trades Germany did.

The BMP from Greece which Germany paid? Do they count for Greece?

The M55S from Slowakia which Germany paid? The Leo 2 A4 for the Czech in exchange for the military equipment?

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Oh lord…

What are you talking about, Kyiv didn't have massive blackouts after this latest attack. 40% of households were without electricity during and a short time after the attack as a preventative measure, but Kyiv was back to usual that same day.

It’s hysterical how many Europeans are jaded to this. Completely ungrateful for what the US has and does provide to them. The US literally acts as their army on its own dime, while they sit back and criticize.

If the war had gone well for Russia in Ukraine, they would have been emboldened regarding their (explicit) plans to “reclaim” territory that is now in the EU and NATO. Europe’s original plan was to watch with horror as Ukraine fell in a matter of days. Russia would then reasonably assume there might be a weak response if they attacked the Baltics, for example.

No, I don’t think the West would be as secure in a world where Russia’s imperialist risk-taking paid off vs a world where it is being bled dry and hamstrung in some of the most humiliating circumstances imaginable.

Nah he ain’t lying, they really are preventing a full scale war in Europe by holding back Russia. They really would, the little bit of their propaganda I’ve seen seems like if they succeeded that they wouldn’t know to stop while ahead. I mean they’re not winning outright right now and their pundits are still talking reckless, I couldn’t imagine the rhetoric if they were decisively winning.

I'm increadibly thankfull that the US is helping ukraine, but somethimes I get the impression that people think the money goes straight to ukraine.

That's just not the case, the money is spent on weaponary so a lot of domestic companies profit from this.

Which in my opinion is fine, but I don't understand why we are not hearing much about it.

Yep - WW2 literally started because everyone sat around as a country took "just one more country" again and again.

Way better stop thing earlier - we are just lucky the Ukrainians are awesome enough to hold the line with NATO support.

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This whole invasion was demented so I doubt we would have been secure. Why would Russia not attempt to "fix" their Transnistria-Moldova historical problem after? Or support Serbia and interfere more in balcans after, especially with full manouverabilty on black sea? Have you seen what they were proposing Viktor Orban and nationalist Hungarians for Carpathians/Transilvanian area and Western Ukraine? If they agreed to something like that we would have to kick them out of EU... All this within the immediate geographic vicinity and reach post conquest of Ukraine, I am not even talking Nordics and NATO or Baltics or the border issues already happening with Poland/Bielorus.

Nah, this Russia is not a good faith actor, and needs to be exterminated in the battlefield with anything short of nukes for the good of the West and ultimately the world.

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Kyiv was attacked repeatedly since October. The damage sustained by the utility infrastructures is accumulative, not because of this single attack. Ukraine has been trying to intercept all the cruise missiles and Kamikaze drones with progressive improvement of their proficiency. This is their best that they have achieved so far

He is not wrong. But he romanticize it, which makes it weird.

>air defenses

>against overwhelming Russian artillery

Bruh.jpeg

Username checks out at least.

I mean Ukraine is already shooting down like 80% of rockets launched at them, it's just a matter of getting those percentages up while Russia goes through their limited stock of missiles.

As for Russian artillery, the solution has been implemented with HIMARS. Massive artillery barrages take massive amounts of ammo, and that requires good logistics and storing all that ammunition. You hit their ammo depots as Ukraine has been doing and all that artillery is dead in the water. And even if do avoid this fate, artillery barrels have a limited lifespan before they become useless and need to be replaced, which is another point of failure for a country with underwhelming logistics.

People have romanticised war heroes since before recorded history. Let the man have passion, we're all on the same side here.

If they're used in Nato they have the facility to communicate. That being said how does the command decide what unit fires first if the incoming missle is within range of a few systems.

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Can we dispell this myth that Ukraine is protecting Europe and the world from Russia? Ukraine is protecting itself and the rest of the civilised world is injecting a buttload of money, weapons and intel so it can be effective.

I'm fully on Ukraine's side, fuck Putain and all that jazz, but let's not pretend the reste of the world would not wipe the floor with any Russian contingent, ever.

Ukraine is not protecting us from Russia because Russia wouldn't stand a chance in the first place. And it knows it.

Now all that unpopular shit being said, Slava Ukraini.

You know you can't tell the truth on here and state facts, without a lot of delusional Americans down voting you, I'm not sure it's even real people anymore, more of a US/Ukranian bot army when you read the comments

They'll have already worked out a flowchart based on how fast it's going and the range of each GBAD installation, so they just follow the plan.

Go roleplay somewhere else.

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AFAICT that graph does not include money donated via the EU and only concerns military donations.

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/

Broadly the EU (including member states) seems to be spending ~51bn euros supporting Ukraine (refugees, finance, weapons) vs the US at ~48bn euros.

Note that 'military donations' is also somewhat of a hard thing to put a number on. Most countries are sending rather old/surplus hardware which is being quoted at the original purchase price. It's kindof fine, but ...

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Instead of just blenders for one Russian hand we got another blender so they can put their other hand in it.

That was back over the summer and pretty sure it was an s300. Pretty funny

NATO would be far too strong tbh it wouldn’t last long. Sorry to ruin your fantasy

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They're protecting other countries from having to take part in the war and ultimately having military and civilian people dying. That's not to say NATO wouldn't win, but we don't want to have that fight happen in the first place.

Naah... Already getting hit...

One claim does not make the other untrue, just like how a country can be in world top 10 spenders on their military but the US will still be more than the other 9 combined. Germany doesn't invest that much into their own military themselves (at least they finally started doing it now), so while it may not be a lot compared to what the USA or UK is doing, it's still a lot relatively.

I mean Ukraine pretty much managed to turn around the war with a handful of himars system. They went from losing Sievierodonetsk from overwhelming artillery barrages to destroying all their logistics with Himars and taking back Kherson and Kharkiv. The damage to Ukraine's infrastructure meanwhile is getting repaired pretty quickly, minimizing the effectiveness of missile strikes that are costing them like half a billion each.

Is there a main control module or is it human input?

idk, what am I, a classified intel leaking account?

Sorry for asking a simple question.

So let me get this right they note the speed, check the chart for who's in the area then have a cigarette then phone and have a discussion who's going to attempt to shoot the missle down.

The Russians have a control module which tracks and decides what missle is going to intercept. There was one captured in March in Ukraine.

I dedicated a lot of time to helping the refugees.

Well yeah no thanks to the billions of dollars the US gave him…..

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It's cute that you think outdated and selective data of larger economies proves your idiotic claim, but Germany is already the second largest donor past the US.

How are 30 Gepard and an iris-t slm system already shooting down missiles, drones and aircraft worse than a single patriot battery that's just been announced?

Phoney pos WEF puppet

UK is rank 2, Germany is 3rd. % of GDP it’s 14th.

According to German sources at least.

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/

They aren’t. Russia attacked Ukraine, not Estonia or Latvia. There are actual NATO forces stationed in those countries. I think the rhetoric and tensions would be higher. But Ukraine also just so happening to be one of few non-NATO potential targets, and the country Russia invaded is no coincidence. We could get hypothetical and say “if Russia did win quickly…” but they haven’t. And a large part of that is feeling merely the heat from the flame of what lies just past Ukraine. Would they walk into the fire after this? Doubt it. And I think their action at the outset implies that they weren’t willing to back then either.

Even amongst that rhetoric, Putin has all but admitted to the reality that Russia stands zero chance against NATO in conventional warfare. Leaning back on the reminder of their powerful nuclear arsenal.

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Some people on reddit lack some brain matter to process information. People will keep repeating the anti german fake news for the next 500 years.

Honestly I don't see why we can't station troops with anti air batteries around major cities to protect civilians. Shit we did more in Libya and that was on shakier ground than this. Not directly attack Russian positions, lets just go in hard for defending civilians from terrorism.

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Maybe you are

Western world adopted a country for decades now

*NATO’s air defence of Ukraine

Settle down now mr poet

Take it easy man. Ukraine was a troubled country before the war. Just like Poland was 30 years ago. I don't think Ukraine is protecting Europe or rest of the world. Europe would do just fine fighting against Putin's army. The only reason why Ukraine is still in the game is the West. Just to make it clear, I hate this situation and hope it will be over soon will Ukraine regaining all their lands and Putin alongside his comrades in prison. Just don't make Ukraine look like they are heroes and defenders of the world... Because they aren't. They are defenders and heroes of their country. That's it. Everyone is supporting that. Take for example Poland and their health services which are now supporting 4,000,000 Ukrainian women and children? Are they not hero's to Ukraine? That is 10% increase in population in few weeks.

I thought it was BILLIONS?

US 1, Germany 2, UK 4, according to that source.

I guess it's not strong enough yet.

...I never said they're the heroes of the west? I'm Polish myself, I know what the opinions and views of these issues are. Regardless of intentions, Europe would rather have Russia and Ukraine duke it out on Ukraine's soil while supporting Ukraine financially and arms wise, because that is preferable to the war coming to our own side of the fence. In that sense, Ukraine is defending Europe, and that's why Europe is supporting Ukraine. Obviously they're not doing it to defend us, but for their own survival, but it all works out in everyone's interest.

Also Poland doesn't have 4 million Ukrainians in its borders now, it's below that. Over a million was Ukrainians already living in the country prior to the Russian invasion.

Oh is this why Fox news has a very similar article but saying Russia is preparing their defenses for new years

> The only reason why Ukraine is still in the game is the West.

Bullshit. Is NATO support helping tremendously? Yes. Do we know what the situation would be if there wasn’t any support? No, absolutely not. They held their own in the first few days of the war with basically nothing from us. Kyiv wasn’t going to be taken anytime soon.

Actual love too, testing these systems live directly against the Russians has made every single weapon donation worth far more than their cash value. That is data that has really only been updated through mostly guessing since Vietnam

Yes sure... Because it wasn't NATO who gave them all the intel needed to defend themselves. I'm not saying that Ukrainians did nothing to defend themselves because it is obvious that they have paid ultimate price in tens of thousands. However, as sad as it might be it is the science and money that wins wars. Better tech and more of it is what will win this war and hopefully it will end with some people in the prison for life... Preferably in Ukrainian prison.

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What do you mean we don’t hear about it??? US government and military has always used private companies and it IS talked about, at least in the US. Think about Boeing, Northrop Grumman, even Space X.

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lol It really wasnt an easy question

I think I get what you are saying but I still find it difficult to say that Ukraine is protecting other countries in any sense. I'm not sure what would happen if Russia invaded Poland. NATO would step in but I'm not so sure Ukraine would and I wouldn't ever hold that against them because consequences for them would be most likely tragic.

3.2 mil have registered accordingly the Google. 9 mil crossed over... However you look at it, there was a strain on NSZ.

Also over the winter the Ukrainian troops will be getting more training on more sophisticated equipment that they are receiving. By spring Russia will be facing an even more devastating foe than they face right now.

But you don’t know that, and you’re speaking entirely out of your ass

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Dude just come to America you will be a better president than Biden!

Actual testing of the IRIS, NASAMS, patriot, Gepard etc is far better then Syria use case

With US dollars?????

🤣🤣🕊 love the reference!

Amazing.

I think we can be appreciative of what Ukraine is doing and going through. I think they are doing exactly what the Ukraine president said. Not one other country on the European continent is participating in the blood loss like Ukraine in its defense. If putin takes Ukraine it carries with it a significant cost insomuch as trade considering that Ukraine's agriculture is feeding 25% of Europe and 48% of china... hmmm maybe they ought to reconsider that. Haha. Not to mention its oil, etc. So I don't think what he said should be downgraded because he makes a valid point. My opinion.

Just an aside, MANPADS isn't the end all. Even total coverage is still limited by the fact these have to be lightweight and portable systems. Evasion techniques and avoiding low flying, head on approaches keeps aircraft safe from MANPADS. Compare this to the small end of AA missiles like Sidewinders or BVR AMRAAM-120s which are the size of large bombs. These missiles need to be big enough to chase running planes across dozens of kilometers as well as fight against notching.

PATRIOT alongside existing S-300 and 400 systems are real deal, first rate AA missile systems.

Someone needs to drop one on the kremlin Take that bast...d out

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Nah there is a different angle video from the same incident i don't have at hand right now where you can see that it actually hit far from the starting point. Still a malfunction I guess but not a self kill

He can wag his finger and threaten with nukes, but he knows it’s not going to matter

And Putin is one year older...

...Who exactly are you directing that at?

Because Russia will claim they’re really protecting military targets

Many refugees who entered Poland moved on to another country where their families are, or returned back to Ukraine already.

They're protecting Europe just by being a buffor state between EU/NATO and Russia. Like I said, they're not doing it out of kindness, they're trying to save their own country and lives - Europe is profiting in this equation simply on Ukraine being where it is. Countries will chip in donations, be it arms or humanitarian aid, because no matter how much they give it's better than being in a war against Russia ourselves.

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Most of the systems are old technology and out of date by NATO standards. It’s a great way to get rid of old surplus equipment that was taking up space and needing ongoing maintenance.

The good stuff hasn’t been donated yet, and might never be. It’s more likely you see advanced weapons used in other areas like hunting terrorists, such as drone technology.

“You arrogant ass, you’ve killed us!”

You gave all old weapons and you have not weapons for yourself and you can't make weapons enough for Ukraine. One battary of Patriot will make urkranian army a lot stronger instead all of the losted C300 of course.

An-225 Mriya (Dream) is the heaviest aircraft ever built. It was meant for transporting the Soviet version of the space shuttle, the Buran (it was about 6 tons lighter than the shuttle despite having an extra engine and being fully automated). I’ve toured the factory on a field trip as a kid

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Russia is Ukraine’s largest weapons supplier

uh, you see, your understanding of western weapon/military supplies stocking is deeply flawed. Unlike russia, here in NATOland we keep old, functioning stuff mothballed just in case, alongside the ready-to-use and the currently used, modern stuff. That's why we were able to load Ukraine with effective weapon systems (largely 20/30 years old but still functional stuff) and supplies, while keeping our defensive capabilities mostly untouched.

It's just that soviet era crap that was sitting in eastern european countries is running out, so we're starting to send newer and better stuff that's just slightly newer.

It'll be a looong time before the MICs from the combined NATO nations will have to actually start worrying about actual suplly issues :D.

EDIT: grammar 'n stuff.

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whatever you're talking about as a "control module" is likely a single AA battalion's control center, which coordinates the systems under the battalion, which can have dozens of launchers, but what you're asking about is coordination of multiple SAM battalions, and to make it even more complicated, SAM battalions across different countries and armies.

Nobody gives a fuck!

I guess that depends on if you consider Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, and Moldova as part of Europe, because if Ukraine fell, they'd be the next targets, except then Putin (or his replacement) would be pulling reserves from Ukraine as well.

What would happen if the USA have a nuclear war head to Ukraine? Wouldn’t that deter Russia and force them to withdraw?

Looks like Ukraine enough era points for a golden age

What do you mean by "the civilised world"? In this context? So countries who support Ukraine are the only civilised people in the world? I don't like that phrase, its often used in a context to make us think the west is civilized non western countries are not. Well " the civilized world " invaded Iraq and killed a million people, they protect war criminals like MBS and sell him weapons, they commit war crimes and go to war for resources I don't see anything civilised about that.

Here’s to hoping Ukraine will prevail!

A nuclear war head without the means of delivery doesn’t mean much. And if Ukraine uses nukes, you can bet that Russia will also use tactical nuclear weapons, and they have a whole lot more of them.

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>It’s a great way to get rid of old surplus equipment that was taking up space and needing ongoing maintenance.

It costs to dispose of too. Might as well dispose of it into some RuZZians.

Depends on the system. Russia has been using S-300 in a ground attack capacity for a while now.

He’s actually helping the western world develop better military equipment quickly and even more efficiently. There’s no better way to develop military equipment than testing it in war

And in the meantime Ukraine soldiers were trained on the new systems...