Comments
UnlikelyRabbit4648 t1_j1lms6d wrote
Oh fuck off, Russia collaborators right in our NATO
Aytanri- t1_j1lov5c wrote
Russia allowing Turkey to use Russian controlled Syrian airspace would mean Russia is aiding Turkey and thus NATO, not the other way around. Besides the Fact that Turkey has done more fighting against Russian interests than most other NATO countries, whilst countries like France literally back a Russian supported war criminal in Libya, the US also collaborates with terror groups that are hostile towards Turkey.
decomposition_ t1_j1lowbj wrote
Wait till you hear about how the US has a deconfliction line with Russia 😳
skeetmonster69 t1_j1lt1o5 wrote
Ok tankie, Turkey wants to attack kurds who were the backbone of the counter-ISIS operation in Iraq and Syria. Turkey is necessary for Nato operations in the middle east. They know their position and use it to hold NATO hostage. They are not a counter Russian entity for NATO.
skeetmonster69 t1_j1lt3yo wrote
Yeah there is a big difference in those two things btw.
decomposition_ t1_j1lt7d5 wrote
The US and Russia have informed each other of operations in the past though, what’s different about Turkey doing it?
skeetmonster69 t1_j1ltt77 wrote
The difference is when Russia and the US do it they are basically saying we are here dont fuck with us and we wont fuck with you, and everyone in the area is flying the biggest flags with the fingers on the trigger waiting for the other to fuck around and find out. This actually happened in 2018 when the Wagner group tried assualting a US outpost in syria and got wiped off the earth.
Turkey is asking a NATO adversary for permission to use their controlled air space because the US (their NATO ally) would deny access to their controlled space to attack a quasi NATO ally (the Kurds).
Turkey is also in the middle of delaying Finland and Sweden from joining NATO for BS political reasons. Turkey is unfortunately a necessary evil for NATO for easy access to the middle east.
Aytanri- t1_j1lva72 wrote
Firstly, I'm not a "tankie" if you want to describe anyone as "tankies", you might want to look at YPG/PKK which the US backs in Syria. They literally follow a Marxist-Leninist Ideology and are the result of the Soviets trying to weaken NATOs eastern flank by destabilizing Turkey.
And the Afghan Mujahedeen which later on transformed into the Taliban were the backbone of the counter-Soviet operation in Afghanistan. Doesn't change the fact that the Taliban are terrorists and no better than the Soviets.
"Hold NATO hostage" last time I checked it was the US that went into the Middle East, fucked up the whole Region and left Turkey to deal with the mess alone.
"They are not a counter Russian entity for NATO.". Yet they are the only country in NATOs history to shoot down a Russian Jet, they are directly fighting against Russian proxies in Syria, the Caucasus, North Africa and pushing against Russian influence in Eastern Europe and Central Asia. Meanwhile, France and Germany were busy exporting military technology to Russia not too long ago, and I already brought up how France collaborates with Russia in Libya against Turkey and Italy.
Kreislauf t1_j1m2asc wrote
"Two opressive, global terrorists in talks about using Syrian airspace for more potential ethnic cleansing"
Translated the title, you are welcome.
SwiftSnips t1_j1m2knt wrote
That whole region has been fucked up a very long time. Before the US went in terrorist groups were everywhere just like they are today. Hell, before they went in a group of them even managed to coordinate well enough to hijack 4 planes and fly them into 3 US buildings killing thousands.
The problem is they will not bend at all on their archaic beliefs, and apparently their beliefs very, very easily lead to radicalism and extreme views. Not all are this way, I dont generalize... but an uncommonly high percentage are.
You mismashed multiple different topics into a few paragraphs like that sums it all up. Erdogan is himself a terrorist with Russian $ stuffed in every pocket.
Aytanri- t1_j1m7m0u wrote
Without the US invasion of Iraq, ISIS would have never evolved to the enormous threat it once was. Ironically enough, the US funded Saudi Arabia's wahabism campaign as a means to combat communism in the Middle East. That too, came back biting them.
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The US is responsible for numerous brutal and illegal invasions as well as staging coups, backing dictators, extrajudicial killings, and all the war crimes they committed during said invasions. No better than any of these terror groups. Seems like US imperialism also very easily leads to radicalism and extreme views.
Everything I said was about the same topic. Also, the US is no less terrorist than Russia is.
kraenk12 t1_j1mh2qr wrote
F both of them!
LionsLoseAgain t1_j1mipj2 wrote
Calling Turkey collaborators with Russia is hilarious. Turkey throughout their history has fought with Russia. Turkey has been the only nation in this conflict that can convince Putin to do anything because the Russians know not to mess with the turks in the black sea region. Turkey looks out for Turkey just like the US looks out for the US.
ZrvaDetector t1_j1mjgz6 wrote
The US doesn't control the airspace in Northern Syria and Turkey isn't asking permission to use the airspace. In fact, American aircrafts flying in Syria mostly take off from Turkey, İncirlik and thus need Turkish permission to operate.
>The difference is when Russia and the US do it they are basically saying we are here dont fuck with us and we wont fuck with you
It's literally the same situation. Turkey and Russia directly clashed in Syria several times though they mostly just target each other's proxies.
>Turkey is also in the middle of delaying Finland and Sweden from joining NATO for BS political reasons.
Both had arms embargoes against Turkey and have only now started to ease them. Why the hell would Turkey welcome countries that sanction into an alliance where Turkish troops would be forced to fight for them in case of a Russian attack when they don't treat Turkey like an ally at all?
notahopeleft t1_j1mjj13 wrote
They were definitely helpful in fighting ISIS but we don’t have a history of looking after our friends once the goal is accomplished. I don’t remember there ever being a deal where US has any obligation to them after the operation.
ZrvaDetector t1_j1mjp1l wrote
No it's just a NATO country that wants to protect its border negotiating with Russia to avoid a potential escalation.
Peet_Pann t1_j1mqovh wrote
Kreislauf t1_j1msttz wrote
a NATO country jailing political critics, threatening all its neighbous with war, blackmailing several european countrys seeking safety, selling advanced NATO weaponry to other war waging countrys and opressing ethnic minorities. ErDOGhans Turkey runs purely on blind nationalism, propaganda and oppresive violence, just like China or Russia.
Edit: Turkey in its current form being in NATO is as much of a joke as the taliban visiting the EU-parlament.
[deleted] OP t1_j1murok wrote
[deleted] OP t1_j1n7fgm wrote
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LionsLoseAgain t1_j1n81or wrote
We did the same thing with Russia when we sent delta force to go kill al baghdaddi. We had to fly helicopters into airspace that was covered by russian ada.
gudematcha t1_j1nct11 wrote
*Turkiye
I thought an actual turkey was speaking in russia for the briefest of moments.
Ceutical_Citizen t1_j1nf0ep wrote
How humiliating it must be for Assad to know his shit tier regime is at the mercy of an even bigger shit tier regime and that his country in general only exists as a backwater satellite of Russia.
The pussy (cat) of Damascus has become politically irrelevant.
westdl t1_j1nle3u wrote
NATO allies should NOT be negotiating with Russia for their own selfish reasons.
Nera7 t1_j1nm7cg wrote
Oh please they change their name in the last year and suddenly decades of precedent with the English name Turkey is erased from memory?
gudematcha t1_j1nmpsi wrote
No, but I think we should make an effort to honor what a country asks to be called. 95% of people probably don’t give a shit, which is fine. I just have dealt with name changes from human people, so for, like I said, the briefest of moments, I forgot that Turkiye used to be Turkey, and my brain connected the image of a turkey.
gothstonerbabe t1_j1noofd wrote
They want the Kurds bombed out of existence
ThatGuyMiles t1_j1nvn5y wrote
Okay, I’m not the person who called them collaborators, but how are you rationalizing a conversation that goes like this, “Yo, Russia just FYI I’m about to do some shit.” To, “Hey daddy Putin, is there some deal we can work out here so I can use your satellite state’s airspace, thanks”. And pretending they are the SAME thing…
JFC, is common sense dead on this planet.
Odd_Entertainment629 t1_j1nxdma wrote
If you think Turkey isn't a terrorist regime you must not have been keeping up with them.
Odd_Entertainment629 t1_j1nxq5e wrote
They're usually complicated.
In this particular instance the villains are so cartoonishly evil I feel like I'm living in a fucking loony tune. It would be funny, if people weren't being tortured and killed.
Odd_Entertainment629 t1_j1nyn4r wrote
If they want people to take them seriously maybe they should start acting like an actual country, not a terrorist organization.
sims3k t1_j1nypyw wrote
Still in NATO. 🤷♂️ ✌️
NotsosmartamInow t1_j1nz7ot wrote
I'm not arguing about the situation between Turkey and the Kurds in Syria, I'm only talking about Turkish-Russian situation.
Turkey is a huge counter against Russia in the Middle east. It actively fights Russian interests in the Middle east, and Libya. There are instances of Turkish troops being killed by Russians and Turkish military shooting down Russian Jets and more. You can't deny the importance of Turkey against Russia.
okbanlon t1_j1o4rdx wrote
>I forgot that Turkiye used to be Turkey
Couple of questions, if you don't mind...
When did this change?
Why did this change?
There's no trolling or agenda from me, here - I'm just curious. I'm an old fart who struggles to remember to say "Ukraine" now instead of "the Ukraine". If I had some context or back story on the "Turkiye" name change, I might be more likely to use it properly going forward.
Many thanks!
ZrvaDetector t1_j1o5wx6 wrote
Fun fact: everyone you don't like are, in fact, not terrorists.
ForestRanger42 t1_j1obdes wrote
Yes. Turkey should be kicked out of nato. How and why they were even admitted is beyond belief
guluscooby t1_j1oelps wrote
"think"
thoughts and facts are different things. If you are really keeping up (with facts, not thoughts) , you know Turkey isn't a terrorist regime lol
guluscooby t1_j1oesus wrote
this is a stupid take. NATO countries don't help Turkey about PKK & other terrorists, some even support them. This is what circumstances require , for Turkey
guluscooby t1_j1of0a2 wrote
BS political reasons? Turkey has been fighting terrorism for years, lots of attacks happened and recently one in Istanbul, how is it a BS reason that Turkey wants what it needs ?
phdthrowaway110 t1_j1omx2e wrote
Wait till you hear how much gas Germany has been buying from Russia.
[deleted] OP t1_j1oo15o wrote
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Gr33nBubble t1_j1owa4c wrote
I'm not an expert on it, but as far as I understand, it has a lot to do with the tactical value of their geographical location. Probably a lot more to it than that though, too.
Yeah they are a weak ass link in the chain that holds NATO together. Pretty dismal.
OkPitch4517 t1_j1ox3ni wrote
Kick Turkey out of NATO
[deleted] OP t1_j1p66mb wrote
[deleted] OP t1_j1p6ja6 wrote
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[deleted] OP t1_j1pags4 wrote
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Kreislauf t1_j1pb15u wrote
Then why was the major of istanbul convicted?
Yagibozan t1_j1pdoca wrote
That's not what terrorism is dude. Repression, yes, to some extent. Terrorist regime? No.
Kreislauf t1_j1pev9p wrote
Terrorism = inforcing your will with (the threat) of violence.
Gluca23 t1_j1pio15 wrote
They have to enjoy their xmas somehow.
[deleted] OP t1_j1pis3v wrote
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[deleted] OP t1_j1pivq7 wrote
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[deleted] OP t1_j1piztd wrote
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IshyTheLegit t1_j1pkgrv wrote
Tell that to Erdogan
IshyTheLegit t1_j1pklfq wrote
Megali NOW
Yagibozan t1_j1psd59 wrote
lmao bro what are you on? Entire world order (dollar, the banks, international shipping) is enforced by the threat of violence by the USA. Does that make them terrorists? No.
Kreislauf t1_j1pu0qp wrote
what "world order"? So many nations are facing war, civil unrest or an economical collapse, that one must be ignorant af to use that term. Google has the following definition of terrorism:
"the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."
Ask someone from one of the many countrys, wich the USA (or other imperialist nations) have invaded to establish "order", who they think the biggest terrorists on this planet are. The wrongdoing of one does not justify it for others. "Does that make them terrorists?" - it absolutely does.
ZrvaDetector t1_j1q3esv wrote
Sure he does this a lot and its annoying, but at least some of the people he calls terrorists are, objectively speaking, terrorists. PKK for example.
IshyTheLegit t1_j1r2xo4 wrote
If the US is so bad for supporting Islamic terrorism, why did Turkey declare war against the anti-Islamist in Libya?
Aytanri- t1_j1rlxd5 wrote
Turkey backs the UN recognized Libyan Government against the Russian backed warlord Haftar, who was convicted by a US-court for War Crimes, so a literal War Criminal. I guess the Wagner group, which is fighting for Haftar in Libya, is also "anti-islamist" now, I guess that also means that they are the "good guys" now.
BanBreaking t1_j1tl675 wrote
He is literally the mayor of Damascus not president of Syria at this point.
BanBreaking t1_j1tlq8y wrote
> jailing political critics
irrelevant.
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>threatening all its neighbous with war
only Greece as they are militarizing the islands illegally and are set to extend their territorial waters to 12 miles, a casus belli stated by Turkey in the 1990s. I haven't heard of any other "threats" to Bulgaria, Giorgia, Syria, Iran or Iraq.
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>blackmailing several european countrys seeking safety
Harboring terrorists isn't what a defence ally does. Also, politics. get used to it or you'll be crying a lot frequantly.
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>selling advanced NATO weaponry to other war waging countrys
Examples and sources please.
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>opressing ethnic minorities
irrelevant.
[deleted] OP t1_j1lm8sc wrote
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