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Mountain_Offer1348 t1_j24flvt wrote

It is high time (well past time, actually) for the entire world to wash its hands of Afghanistan entirely. All previous efforts at aid and assistance should be re-directed to assisting the escape and re-settlement of all individuals who wish to escape that irredeemable hellhole.

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Lurnmoshkaz t1_j24romf wrote

Re-settle them where? Afghanistan has a population of 40 million people lol.

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ToughQuestions9465 t1_j24suc7 wrote

Unfortunately most of them are ok with state of affairs. Resettling ones wishing to leave would not be all that difficult.

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Gekokapowco t1_j2553x7 wrote

the world at large traditionally does not handle refugee relocation well. We should, but I think it'll be difficult.

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I__LOVE__LSD t1_j25e7hm wrote

There are some good examples of mass refugee relocation though. Vietnamese were virtually nonexistent in the US until the post-war refugee surge, and they have since settled and integrated quite well. Median household income for Vietnamese Americans is now $72k, which is well above the average, and even above the $66k for White Americans.

Obviously income is not the end all be all number for how well it was all handled, but I think it's a pretty decent proxy.

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NewPCtoCelebrate t1_j25v159 wrote

I don't really see a flood of Afghans settling in anywhere near as well as Vietnamese. The Vietnamese that left Vietnam were educated, well off, and cultural values aligned with success.

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AllAmericanSeaweed t1_j27myp4 wrote

I don't think that the Vietnam War is a great example of good refugee evactuation

Many of those "rescued" children were kidnapped from their homes.

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WikiSummarizerBot t1_j27mzva wrote

Operation Babylift

>Operation Babylift was the name given to the mass evacuation of children from South Vietnam to the United States and other western countries (including Australia, France, West Germany, and Canada) at the end of the Vietnam War (see also the Fall of Saigon), on April 3–26, 1975. By the final American flight out of South Vietnam, over 3,300 infants and children had been evacuated, although the actual number has been variously reported. Along with Operation New Life, over 110,000 refugees were evacuated from South Vietnam at the end of the Vietnam War. Thousands of children were airlifted from Vietnam and adopted by families around the world.

^([ )^(F.A.Q)^( | )^(Opt Out)^( | )^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)^( | )^(GitHub)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)

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arlaarlaarla t1_j2633jv wrote

We've had one yes, but what about second refugee crisis?

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DreamMaster8 t1_j27pm2b wrote

Because for every refugee walking away from this there's also one that is just take advantage and bring their outdated value with them.

Les us have a value test for everyone and il be ok with it.

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38384 t1_j25uzn3 wrote

Stop talking out your ass. As someone who has worked there and is in close contact with people I've worked with there, the state of affairs is beyond horrendous for almost the entire population. Almost nobody likes it, except for the top Talibs in power.

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KinzuuPower t1_j26imh4 wrote

They had all the means to resist the taliban, if they didn’t it’s because they didn’t want.

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38384 t1_j26jova wrote

They actually did. 3 months of heavy fighting, thousands of fighters killed on both sides, civilians including women even volunteered to defend against Taliban. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Taliban_offensive

The international headline was that Kabul fell in one day without a bullet fired. It's very misleading not to take into account all the events that led to it in the months prior to it. Unless you were closely following the war, you wouldn't know of the lengthy battles fought in the provinces and border crossings.

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AuroraFinem t1_j26v8hi wrote

No, it’s not just the headline. The afghani military gave up very quickly and surrendered in many areas. The harder battles fought were almost exclusively civilians picking up arms or small regional areas who wanted to remain independent from the taliban.

The military and defense fell faster than even the most conservative international estimates for how long they would hold out and it’s the main reason why we were scrambling at the end to get out before Kabul and the airport were entirely overrun. We had planned to have at a minimum months longer until they got anywhere near the capital.

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Lubadbitches t1_j26wy81 wrote

The worlds top military tried to help for 20 years and couldn’t

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38384 t1_j2fs83i wrote

To be fair they did weaken the Taliban considerably in 2001 and had the upper hand for the next few years until the fuck ups started that led to Taliban growing again and eventually winning. If Bush didn't have the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" mindset, they could've made peace with the weakened Taliban in 2001 and potentially prevent the 20 year headache.

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Strident_Hood t1_j26tkiq wrote

3000 people died (including both civilian and military deaths). Given that they had 300,000 troops that should have been fighting for their country’s survival, this is quite a small number of casualties. Evidently they didn’t put up much of a fight at all..

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krneki12 t1_j289zyf wrote

If you want to know how much efforts it takes to have a free and Democratic country, look at Ukrainians.

Nothing less will do when you deal with fanatics.

The Afghan had their chance and they gave up. Now they will have to deal with the consequences of their actions as no one will go there and die for them.

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Relevant_Monstrosity t1_j2901xc wrote

They folded like pussies in months. You have to fight for your rights! A nation of 40 million people enslaved with only a few thousand dead -- with American backing? These people are craven and deserve no nation at all. Their modus operandi is child rape and opium abuse. Living under harsh Islam is their just returns.

Contrast with the Ukrainians.

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foki999 t1_j25nuie wrote

This is honestly just opening your arms up to widespread terrorism if anything too unfortunately

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APsWhoopinRoom t1_j283u9g wrote

What else are we supposed to do? Invade again? Unfortunately, this seems to be what Afghanis are OK with.

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foki999 t1_j285hgw wrote

The real answer is nothing unfortunately.

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Yourmamasmama t1_j268xdu wrote

No, the vast majority WANT the current state of affairs. Only a very small minority living in the cities were anti-taliban. People have to remember that Afghanistan was a stone age society 20 years ago. We cannot force idealogical change.

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rexo12 t1_j28p4wb wrote

>Afghanistan was a stone age society 20 years ago

Yeah no it wasn't.

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FlairUpOrSTFU t1_j27dusj wrote

I'm gonna go ahead and say 50% of the rural population also is anti Taliban (women). But they have no power.

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Yourmamasmama t1_j27s52w wrote

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If you watch some of the early 1900s interviews of women talking about the right to vote, a surprising number were anti-suffrage. An entire system of oppression cannot be maintained without participation from both genders. Maybe 50% of young women in Afghanistan are anti Taliban but women in general are probably not anti Taliban.

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THAErAsEr t1_j2645sp wrote

Hahaha. 95% of all countries would deny all help and the other 5% would face national backlash because their population hates foreigners.

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Lilybaum t1_j263qtm wrote

What? The majority of the country is facing extreme food shortages, how are they ok with the situation there?

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Environmental_Cake97 t1_j257414 wrote

Well, I’m a female in the US and I have a spare room. If someone could get an Afghan refugee to me there would be free accommodation, free food, and paid work to do when they felt up to it. I would dearly love to get a woman out of there and to safety.

The problem is all the goddamned bureaucrats between her and me.

I think assisting the ones who want to leave is all we can do. A people have to sort out their own internal problems because our attempts at intervention make things worse. Anyone who Nopes out of it is welcome at my place though. If they like dogs anyway.

I can’t solve everyone’s problems. I can’t bring out a whole family. I can assist one person, which is what I can do. Preferably female because I am female and that is my preference. You might take a male or a whole family.

If everyone did what they could do the Taliban would soon run out of victims. Doing nothing because you would prefer to solve a different problem is exactly that, doing nothing.

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FiendishHawk t1_j25b2gh wrote

It’s not bureaucrats, it’s the entire society. Most people would not want to go without their family and you probably can’t fit her, her husband, 3 kids, cat and mother-in-law in your spare room.

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bcv2269 t1_j25h1i9 wrote

Also you’ll find out that even their “liberals” are raging right wing religious nut jobs by our standards.

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mossiemoo t1_j25h67u wrote

In the meantime reach out to local women's shelters, there are many women in need of help to escape abusive situations. You can still transform the lives of many women, they just won't be Afghan. ♥️

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Manicplea t1_j261dn7 wrote

Think globally act locally. It's easy to look at a news story of a far off place and say I would totally help them! Well that's great that you have a desire to help because there are neglected seniors, foster kids without homes and abused young folks of all kinds who could use a big brother/sister right where you are right now that would be thrilled with your help and require a lot less red tape. Start there!

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tamurareiko t1_j25bzg3 wrote

That’s very nice of you!

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Environmental_Cake97 t1_j25fgy6 wrote

Well it would be if there wasn’t a ton of officials to wade through first. I have no idea how to extract someone. It’s all good intentions right now, which achieves nothing :(

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GoBeyondAte t1_j25c2kg wrote

I've noticed all you guys only want to get the women out and forget about the boys and men who are also suffering

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mitchconner_ t1_j25e8oz wrote

Quit it with that shit dude. They aren’t suffering nearly as much as the women, who are being persecuted, and having their lives uprooted, and basic human rights revoked, just simply because they were born women. Men aren’t being told they will no longer have access to education. Men aren’t forced to cover their bodies head to toe. Men aren’t forced into a life of servitude just because of their sex.

Sure, there are men and boys who I’m sure are struggling. But they aren’t facing persecution simply because of their sex.

Get out of here with that dumbass shit.

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Robodarklite t1_j25icqp wrote

While I agree with most of what you say, young boys do have a rough time over there as well, being male doesn't give them immediate protection, they get sold off to slavery and used for sexual purposes, check out bacha bazi for more information. Again, not disagreeing with what you said, just that if it's anything like other third world countries being male alone doesn't protect you, connections to powerful people are what keep you safe.

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38384 t1_j25ve2g wrote

Pakistan, since they bear a big chunk of responsibility in Af's affairs /s

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McMacHack t1_j26llgc wrote

We can just pick a tiny Country somewhere with people already living in it then just start depositing them there and funnel lots of Military Aid and hardware to them for decades.

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HolyFuckerony t1_j25kw89 wrote

Just send them to Germany. My country will take them gladly.

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Shurqeh t1_j25f2iq wrote

I'd imagine the majority of the people wanting out will be female... but to get out they will need a male relative to accompany them.

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prussianflyingcircus t1_j25pre6 wrote

Was there in 2006, was real shitty. But, the people under the government and their tribal leaders were really astounding. That being said. There is poo everywhere, and it dries, then a helo lands or the wind picks up and you get poo-dirt in your mouth. Then you get the shits and sweat. Afghanistan is a hard place and letting it be only reminds the taliban that they can be dickheads, but reminders that rest of the world is capable of driving them back into the mountains weighs on their collective conscience (I understand that this is futile, but it’s their fragile “governments” reality)

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Kraosdada t1_j2678vo wrote

Evacuate all the women and wall off the place so that no beast can ever escape and murder again.

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astral_crow t1_j26stkb wrote

Afghanistan is really just right under the devils ballsack.

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LeveyCarralt t1_j24ytxr wrote

That should have been done on September 12th 2001.

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dumb_idiot_dipshit t1_j24qu5n wrote

condemning those who live their to famine and disease is much like condemning the son for the sins of the father. it's exceedingly stupid and the taliban are not the types to yield so if it's just a bluff then it's still ineffective, and if it's a serious threat then it clearly won't deter them.

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KailReed t1_j24wo2e wrote

What exactly is everyone supposed to do about Afghanistan? I've seen people say we should help, I've seen people say we should just leave them alone entirely, and both times people have said we can't do that.

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ZetZet t1_j252lym wrote

Reminds me of the Andy's wiping problem. At some point you have to give up.

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mrlolloran t1_j253peu wrote

This is a weird feedback loop that some people fall into. They look at strife abroad and think surely we must help but almost always it ends up badly and then they think we have no business even being there until the next problem that tugs at their heartstrings arises.

It’s a bit of a straw man but I’ve seen it play out enough to disregard that. People can say I’m full of shit but here’s what comes next/has been happening. We decide we are going to do something but with no military intervention. We give food but local warlords seize it and only dole out generous portions to themselves and their most loyal supporters and if there’s any left everyone else can fight over it. Warlords keep doing business as usual because we’re feeding them and regular people, the ones we’re desperately trying to help, starve. Which brings us back to either cutting off all aid or military intervention, which we’ve already tried and failed, to ensure the people are getting the food and other supplies.

Frankly I think you’ve got the right idea of skipping over the next part. There’s nothing we can do so why enable the warlords. I’m open to an alternative I’ve just never heard a one personally.

Edit: some words

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CriskCross t1_j2529ds wrote

Could have just not left, leaving 40 million people to lose human rights was a bad thing actually. Or we could have actually built the Afghan army to operate independent of us instead of being 100% dependent on us.

Like, no matter how you look at it this is our fault.

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this_toe_shall_pass t1_j2541ms wrote

Did you witness the last 20 years? What should've been done differently ?

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CriskCross t1_j255zur wrote

Well, aside from the fact this was always going to be a generational conflict if we wanted to actually change the country, a good start would have been building an Afghan military that wasn't entirely reliant on us for logistics, intelligence, procurement, maintenance, training, air support, CasEvac, you know. Literally every support function.

We cut the cord practically over night, leaving behind a military that was all tooth no tail, and then justified the abandonment as the same moralizing bullshit we use to claim poverty is the fault of the impoverished.

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SteveThePurpleCat t1_j258fdw wrote

They did nothing to stand against the Taliban, repeatedly. You can't help people who clearly don't want to be helped.

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SekhWork t1_j252i38 wrote

>and the taliban are not the types to yield so if it's just a bluff then it's still ineffective

Shrug. At this point who cares. Don't ask them for anything. Don't send them anything. Maybe your god will provide for you because the rest of us won't.

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