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Original-Phase-5535 t1_j5if9yl wrote

The country’s finances are also suffering because of differences with The International Monetary Fund (IMF) over a review process, which has delayed the release of a $1.1 billion bailout tranche.

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askmeifimacop t1_j5iixtc wrote

That’s almost 95% of the entire population. Crazy.

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OldMork t1_j5ijeeo wrote

frequency dropped, so probably overloaded?

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blainehamilton t1_j5ijy32 wrote

Possible EMP weapon test by another nation as a preparation for World War 3?

−63

macross1984 t1_j5im5dc wrote

That is crazy for electrical grid to fail so spectacularly.

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3434rich t1_j5ip181 wrote

Are there really 220million people in Pakistan? That’s sounds like a lot for a country that size!

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SacrificialPwn t1_j5iqo7e wrote

The article mentions it's the worst power outage since 2021, but I seem to remember a massive outage there a 2-3 months ago affecting most of the country. I think that time shut down water pumping stations and sewage in major cities, I'd assume the same with today's outage.

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Seeker_Of_Knowledge- t1_j5ispbg wrote

Just an interesting fact. People in Lebanon and some other parts of the world get only one hour a day of electricity.

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Ehldas t1_j5j2ovm wrote

Replying to Greedy-Creme-995 (#1,447,182)

That's actually a major part of grid design, and unless you design and implement it properly it can be a monumental pain to actually restart the grid properly.

It's called a "Black Start" and is very hard to do, especially on an already dodgy and possibly damaged grid.

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Linophryne t1_j5jamox wrote

They should ask the West for help.

−11

MostValuable t1_j5jdhcu wrote

Replying to clanlord (#1,449,419)

A big reason they have more people is because they grew rice instead of wheat before globalization. Rice per acre provides almost 3x the calories as wheat so it can sustain many more people per acre of farmland.

Today corn is king which is why you see so many products containing corn derivatives

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pargofan t1_j5jf9rf wrote

What's causing the power outage?

And 220 million is a LOT of people. That's nearly two-thirds of the US population

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False_Fondant8429 t1_j5jft5x wrote

Nuclear power could be seen as a renewable clean source of energy, but it is far from being reliable

−21

rafdotcom t1_j5jnq21 wrote

Replying to DemonPoro (#1,450,599)

Sorry that you joined, but yours is no fault of own, seems like the Russians had a part to play in you joining our club

Our government created the mess we in. Like they knew about it and did nothing significant to alter course.. headed right into .. now we just another failed state

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Gr8gaur t1_j5jpstd wrote

Replying to Wrong_Adhesiveness87 (#1,450,872)

Because when u have forex of just $4.3 billion, of which $3 billion are loans begged from Saudi, China etc... importing luxury cars worth $1.2 billion is more important than arranging wheat and electricity.

A true banana republic !

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69_queefs_per_sec t1_j5jqa6o wrote

Replying to rafdotcom (#1,448,984)

Fucking hell, and I got mad when the power went out for 30 minutes yesterday in Bangalore (there's a diesel generator so honestly it wasn't even an issue). I can't imagine life in SA. Such a beautiful country deserves better.

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snharisa t1_j5jyn69 wrote

Replying to False_Fondant8429 (#1,450,061)

It's a land of cultivating terrorists. They supported Talibani Afghanistan takeover. Karma has striked back with taliban forming their own govt. within Pakistan.
They are not to be trusted with any technical advancements

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Seeker_Of_Knowledge- t1_j5jzbfk wrote

Replying to Wrong_Adhesiveness87 (#1,450,872)

It is really hell on earth. I have relatives who live there and for the most, they are using other forms of food reservations besides fridges (salt, dry meat...)

They have small batteries that they recharge in this one hour that they can use for one light in the house for the rest of the day.

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Whatttttt123455 t1_j5k12ow wrote

Replying to VoraciousTrees (#1,450,616)

Texas did load shed. The generation and fuel was not there, so load shed was the only option. There are strict federal guidelines in place for how to keep the grid secure. That falls under the authority of NERC, which falls under the authority of FERC. Texas had few guidelines or requirements on the generators and could enter or exit the market anytime they chose to do so. That is because Texas is a big oil and gas state. The Texas legislature does not want to put a burden on energy producers that could cut into their profits.They recently passed lip service laws to require inspections, but it won't do much if a situation like this were to occur again.

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noxx1234567 t1_j5k2dww wrote

Replying to pargofan (#1,449,999)

The elite in Pakistan steal all the funds meant for maintenance /upkeep of the transmission system

Ex military , politicians who run transmission organisations steal as much as possible and send it to London , usa or Dubai

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Kidog1_9 t1_j5k31ig wrote

Replying to snharisa (#1,451,960)

And then they blame the west for whatever random reason pops up. Damn, I miss imran Khan and his idiocy. DYK he compared Pakistan's and Iran's shared border to that of Germany and Japan (which is nonexistent, btw)?

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soulhot t1_j5k34z7 wrote

Replying to rafdotcom (#1,450,849)

I genuinely am sorry for the South African people because they had such high hopes when Mandela was freed and its so sad to see what’s happening.

I just realised it sounds like I don’t think it’s terrible in other countries.. I didn’t mean it that way.. it’s tragic for all people’s in this day and age. Basic human rights, safety and expectations should be every governments first concern.

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ExchangeKooky8166 t1_j5k3p8a wrote

Replying to 69_queefs_per_sec (#1,451,156)

South Africa is that way because the African National Congress has been laughably corrupt and incompetent since Mandela left office in 1999.

Tragic tale of a country. Without Mandela, South Africa would have probably collapsed economically and then into an awful civil war. However, there was no strong leader after him to keep the economic and social progress that was gained from 1995-2007.

No, this isn't apartheid apologism. The National Party were just as shitty and apartheid is responsible for many long-term social issues in South Africa. The ANC just make it worse.

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Infinite-Outcome-591 t1_j5k59l7 wrote

OMG, that's a major outage and a lot of people affected! Hope the power utility gets it up and running soon!

4

happyjelly97 t1_j5kaqri wrote

Hello I am from here and the way the light fluctuated before going out, it definitely looked like something was wrong. We just got our light back about an hour ago, meaning the light was gone for about 13 hours. Luckily, we had a generator since this happens a lot, but even that was only running for about half the time.

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rafdotcom t1_j5kb2p2 wrote

Replying to TheOwlDemonStolas (#1,452,416)

Basically government policies and not educating its population.. after 30 years the cracks are showing. We have massive urban decay in our major population centres and no maintenance done on critical infrastructure.. Where I reside each day without electricity means the water supply is affected and we without water almost every time the power goes out.. the power goes out every few hours :(

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baishkiaak t1_j5kdj0f wrote

Thats what happens when your main export is terrorism and nuclear tech to dictators instead of actually investing in development.

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Pakistani_in_MURICA t1_j5kh2s2 wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#1,451,654)

Problem is honesty and commitment. My mom was a teacher there for 15 year but the education board has "no record" of her. She literally went to the retired headmaster's house to ask if she might have records of her time as the letters my mom has aren't "attested".

Want something done you need to pay everyone from the guy who brings chai in the office to the office manager. It was 10,000PKR back in 1983 to bribe an education official to get your middle school educated daughter a position to teach in high school. Yeah. You read that correctly.

The uphill battle to get an honest competent individual in position to do anything is impossible across the country.

Another example.

A provincial government set up a disaster management department. They hired internationally trained individuals to run it. Sounds good right?

Well the bureaucrats went up in a frenzy since a government department was outside their domain. So the solution? Stupid bureaucrats we're brought in to manage the trained disaster relief individuals and allocate funding.

Well we saw that funding when 1/3+ of the country was flooded and still people aren't getting relief supplies.

What happened to those relief supplies?

Well an even better question. You see tents were used as floor mats for a political rally.

There's no sense of accountability or collective good.

A police chief (I don't know his US equivalent) involved in numerous extrajudicial killings and theft was just declared innocent by a court.

The current government got the vast majority of their corruption cases dismissed and declared innocent while dozens of prosecutors and investigators involved in the cases have been assassinated.

What more examples do you want?

The children of these assholes are now migrating to the US/Canada/EU/Australia/New Zealand. Making songs to "spread the culture". While their parents in Pakistan are beating their underpaid servants and serfs.

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Agreeable-Bicycle-78 t1_j5kk2mc wrote

I moved to Pakistan 2 yrs ago from the states

tbh, it was kinda like meh it’ll be fine

No one freaked out and I didn’t rly see anything out of the normal

Life in a developing country is wild but I’ll tell ya, I don’t freak out about problems like I used to living out west. Nothing seems like a crazy big deal anymore, you adapt and keep moving

Powers back by the way, bout to watch me some HBO

9

barath_s t1_j5kkm2o wrote

Replying to whatkindofred (#1,450,631)

You just got to be able to make neutron stars collide - or the right kind of supernovae . That'd help you create uranium from hydrogen (with some extra steps).

Or you could skip that and go for fusion.

Eventually, of course, the universe will run down. somewhere between 10^13 to 10^23 years .. you don't want to wait until 10^67 or beyond...

At which point you got to learn how to create a new universe.

In other words, it is just that you don't have the tech to make nuclear renewable right now .

0

Speculawyer t1_j5kojc7 wrote

Replying to ExchangeKooky8166 (#1,452,546)

Eskom is a mess. It is so coal dependent and coal is expensive. But they don't seem to have the money or willpower to switch from coal to solar PV and wind.

And now I presume a lot of wealthy people are switching to battery backed solar PV so you get the utility death spiral.

3

narayans t1_j5kpsqk wrote

Replying to Pakistani_in_MURICA (#1,453,838)

Wow. Just getting rid of rampant corruption would make it less suffocating to live in

Back in the day in Chennai, India I had to pay a bribe to just take a driver's license test. If you don't they'll harass you by making you wait for hours and/or by asking you to come again another day, but if you pony up, they'll hand you a license even if you don't test well. So yeah I did the unethical deed and I deserve to be punished for it, but I digress

Once I was pulled over for "drunk driving", the cop asked for money; I told the cop I've never even tasted alcohol (which was true) and he said think of it as a gift and lowered the price to 200 Rupees/5 USD, and I kid you not he tried to say it nicely. It's the same tactic where they'll turn hostile if you don't play along.

With digitization, things have gotten better I believe

3

VariationRelevant923 t1_j5kptk0 wrote

I feel so bad for those living in Pakistan, rural India, Bangladesh, rural China, and Sub Saharan Africa who will face the brunt of the worst of climate change without strong systems in place to prevent catastrophic loss of life. I mean 2022 was a horrible year in Pakistan, one of strongest heatwaves recorded, reaching 52 degrees C, and then followed by devastating floods, which were so bad you could easily see them from space.

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Iron-Doggo t1_j5krtcr wrote

Replying to Horror-Childhood6121 (#1,453,693)

But you had time, money and knowledge of how to effectively live off grid. These people do not. That is why it was a smooth transition for you and a rough transition for them. They don’t have the advantages you do that enable you to live comfortably off grid. It’s a struggle for survival for them. For you it’s just a relaxing way of life.

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i_hate_dinner t1_j5ks90q wrote

When religious extremism and Military are put in one pot

3

Horror-Childhood6121 t1_j5kw9z4 wrote

Replying to Iron-Doggo (#1,454,831)

It was no smooth transition for me..but not comparing to this. Relaxing? You have no idea..but again, just put that in as I have lived without electricity.. in our part of the country we have regular outages so even when we were on the grid, it was something we deal with regularly. Parts of our county were out of electricity for almost 2 weeks recently.

Hardly " hell on earth".

However it seems that the power grid in these places has been unreliable for many many years, and lack of electricity is not an unusual situation. So they have had time.

−4

UnusedCandidate t1_j5l1pid wrote

Replying to pargofan (#1,450,358)

Did some digging. As per some forum posts, apparently power stations are turned off at night to conserve fuel and reduce loads. When the restart was attempted on Monday morning, the grid failed.

Another theory is that the load was too high on a local grid(Quetta, Balochistan), causing it to trip and sort of domino effect the entire national grid from there.

​

Can't confirm either one in any meaningful way though.

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UnusedCandidate t1_j5l3dud wrote

Replying to pargofan (#1,455,857)

Seems fairly common. There's a tight Forex squeeze, Pakistan has no fuel resources of its own. It all culminates to this. There's also a third theory that a Chinese made grid control system failed, leading to this.

15

lfcman24 t1_j5l4614 wrote

Replying to pargofan (#1,449,999)

Probably not enough fuel in generators. The grid is usually designed to sustain loss of few generators but if the demand power vs supplied power comes dangerously close even worst if the demand power is higher than supply, it can cause voltage to dip which causes generators to run at a higher speed and hence can trip those and results in a cascading effect where the demand cannot be met now by remaining ones and one by one all generators trip.

Coal Generators can take a day to two during warm start , gas ones are quick so depends what’s in their bucket. Power restoration after a grid failure can take a day to a week to complete restoration.

2

Lawfulness_Character t1_j5lcdvx wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#1,451,654)

Exaggerate much about Texas because uninformed crying on the internet is more fun than educating yourself?

Texas is quickly approaching political parity.

It's the 2nd most populous state in the country.

It's the fastest growing state in the country by net population growth.

It is the 4th fastest growing state in the country by population growth per capita.

−1

Icy_Tomatillo2699 t1_j5lh6g7 wrote

Replying to Kidog1_9 (#1,452,376)

A political and constitutional crisis emerged in Pakistan from, 3 April 2022 to 10 April 2022 when, National Assembly's Deputy Speaker Qasim Khan Suri dismissed a no-confidence motion against Prime Minister Imran Khan during a session in which it was expected to be taken up for a vote, alleging that a foreign country's involvement in the regime change was contradictory to Article 5 of the Constitution of Pakistan.[1] Moments later, Khan stated in a televised address that he had advised President Arif Alvi to dissolve the National Assembly. Alvi complied with Khan's advice under Article 58 of the constitution. This resulted in the Supreme Court of Pakistan (SCP) taking a suo moto notice of the ongoing situation, creating a constitutional crisis, as effectively, Imran Khan led a constitutional coup.Four days later, the SCP ruled that the dismissal of the no-confidence motion, the prorogation of the National Assembly, the advice from Imran Khan to President Arif Alvi to dissolve the National Assembly, and the subsequent dissolution of the National Assembly were unconstitutional, and overturned these actions in a 5-0 vote. The Supreme Court further held that the National Assembly had not been prorogued and had to be reconvened by the speaker immediately and no later than 10:30 a.m. on 9 April 2022.

On 9 April, the National Assembly was reconvened, however the motion was not immediately put to a vote. The session went on all day but the voting did not begin. Shortly before midnight, the speaker and the deputy speaker both resigned.

Shortly after midnight on 10 April, the National Assembly voted and passed the no-confidence motion with 174 votes, a majority, removing Khan from office,and making him the first prime minister in Pakistan to be removed from office through a no-confidence motion.

And after that it was a literal war between the current government and the people because almost everyone liked khan's government.

3

Necessary_Row_4889 t1_j5li6i4 wrote

Does that include those without running water and electricity before the outage? If so this outage is only affecting like 100 folks.

−1

Ultimo_Ninja t1_j5lkyl0 wrote

Pakistan chose to spend money on its military over everything else. That choice has its consequences.

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jollyjam1 t1_j5lnz2y wrote

What's the reasoning for this, is it associated with the major flooding they had?

1

RansomStark78 t1_j5lvezo wrote

Replying to Speculawyer (#1,458,134)

You mention that wealthy rsa citizens are switching to solar and t his will lead to failure of the national power producer

I googled there are only 400 000 za citizens that make above 1 000 000 zar as per za tax stat

1000000 at xe rate is approx 60 000 usd

There are approx 60-80 mil ppl in rsa

How does 400 000 (possibly half that in number households given that higher in comers earners marry other higher incomes earners)

Result in a income deficit enough to cause the power utility to go into red

2

RansomStark78 t1_j5lx9qa wrote

Replying to Speculawyer (#1,458,134)

A 15 min google search

Za current renewables are at r 2,02 kwh ( 2012)

15 year life span

but customers are paying r1, 62per kwh

So coal must be cheaper than renewables

Also most heavy users are in the north most energy renewables are in the south

Za do not have transmission capacity to take the power to the north so having more renewables will not help

Apparently transmission capacity is at 100% in the south

2

chocoboyc t1_j5m5ied wrote

Not saying the Chinese did this, but they have been on Pakistan's ass for a while for not paying the Chinese companies the money owed for building and operating these power plants.

1

Amorougen t1_j5mnq96 wrote

Replying to pargofan (#1,455,857)

How many people in the US lost power in 2003? Answer: 50 million. Can't remember duration, but some sites claim more than a day. Seems to me it was more than that in the Detroit area. I know the auto industry shut down, and cellular towers went dark. Good old POTS telephones worked though - powered off batteries (big batteries and lots of them). No comparison to what is happening to Pakistan however.

0

Drak_is_Right t1_j5pfd5o wrote

Replying to lfcman24 (#1,456,034)

It also takes time to sync each additional generator with the previous ones on the grid. There is a very fine window on the frequency. Just a tiny dip and everything goes down. Or explodes and catches fire.

1

lfcman24 t1_j5pgtv3 wrote

Replying to Drak_is_Right (#1,470,059)

Syncing is usually not that hard. The problem is that you create tiny islands when restoring after blackout and count how much reserve you have if your largest contingency/generator trips in this case. Worst case if you pick too much load after power restoration and suddenly the largest generator trips, you are back to zero. Therefore, companies design their power restoration as small pockets, helps bring all generators online and also helps supporting different island. Synchronizing islands is a bitch but with moderns AVR and frequency regulators they are pretty doable.

Load restoration is a like a total gamble because it’s all done theoretically but rarely any engineers have seen it happen in reality.

1

Seeker_Of_Knowledge- t1_j5qc4n9 wrote

Replying to prodbywetpaint (#1,472,178)

My uncle just emigrated from Lebanon a few months ago and when he came to Canada, he couldn't believe the difference at the beginning, it was a shock for him.

https://www.energyforgrowth.org/memo/a-power-and-economic-dual-crisis-lebanons-electricity-sector/

Little old article, but what I can tell you is that it got much much worse as of now compared to a year ago.

Just search "Lebanon Electricity Crisis"

1