WealthyMarmot

WealthyMarmot t1_jaeqi3w wrote

They're not separate breakers. If my understanding is correct, it's just a single-pole, but someone ran a 12/3 from a switch to outside so that there's an optional switched hot in case someone wants to install a switched outlet (like OP does). The hots are on the same phase, unlike a MWBC.

Two GFCIs should work totally fine here. The neutral at each outlet is clean.

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WealthyMarmot t1_jaeae0j wrote

Odd. You probably need a pro to take a look. Could be simply main voltage sagging from the high draw and those LEDs are especially sensitive.

Is the oven neutral touching the lighting circuit's ground (they look close, can't tell if they're actually in contact)? If so, my wild theory is that it might be transferring enough current to cause thermal expansion under the lug where the lighting neutral and ground are double-tapped (very common but not a good idea BTW). That could theoretically loosen the lighting neutral's connection after a time and dim the lights. Normally the oven neutral wouldn't transfer enough current to matter, but aluminum combined with a loose connection could make the copper path more attractive.

But whoever gets in there will probably find a more boring explanation. Good luck.

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WealthyMarmot t1_jadufm5 wrote

Yep. You lose that center-tapped service neutral to the transformer, your 120V phase legs are now in series, which can cause severe overvoltage (up to 240V) or undervoltage depending on the balance of the load. You may also end up with dangerous current on metal appliance casings depending on the grounding system's impedence. It might be the single most dangerous failure for residential split-phase systems.

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WealthyMarmot t1_jadpl4u wrote

Your plan sounds fine to me. Someone really made your life easy by running that wire. Make sure the box itself is weather-resistant and grounded, and get the deepest one you can find because GFCIs are chonky.

Technically, your local jurisdiction probably requires permits to install new receptacles. Practically speaking, this is very low-risk. But keep that in mind.

edit: lol in the last two days I've probably installed 40 outlets/switches, including figuring out how to AFCI a weird old MWBC and deal with a busted Carter 3-way, but apparently DIY doesn't think I know what I'm doing

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WealthyMarmot t1_ja52j9s wrote

To add to the other answers:

Many jurisdictions require you to add AFCI protection whenever you replace an outlet in an AFCI-required area (which is now most of the house, and I'd expect bathrooms to be added before long). The best way to solve all your problems is GFCI/AFCI breakers for those circuits, but you may have problems finding those affordably (or at all) for some old panels.

Note that AFCI receptacles work like GFCIs in that they'll protect everything downstream, so if you don't or can't go the breaker route, it might be worth it to find the first outlet on the circuit via trial-and-error and just swap that one with a combo outlet.

If you have to prioritize financially, always take care of GFCIs first. That's life safety.

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WealthyMarmot t1_j9mv3jd wrote

Reply to comment by gregra193 in Circuit loses power GFCI by SorenAmroth

> The fridge should really be on a dedicated circuit and also not downstream from a GFCI.

Yeah, as long as the fridge outlet is at least six feet from the sink. Otherwise it requires a GFCI (at least in my area).

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WealthyMarmot t1_j9mt6zv wrote

Reply to comment by [deleted] in Circuit loses power GFCI by SorenAmroth

> OP said the outlet is GFCI not the breaker. You can't have both together.

Sure you can. It's just unnecessary and occasionally makes troubleshooting a little annoying.

> GFCI specifications were changed to Arc fault because everyone complained GFCI'S tripped too often.

GFCIs and AFCIs are two totally different things. AFCIs in no way replace GFCIs and won't protect against ground faults (unless the fault causes arcing). Maybe you mean switching a GFCI breaker out for a combo breaker that does both?

> I would love to replace all these stupid outlets and breakers in my house if it wasn't for insurance reasons.

They're there for a very good reason, especially the GFCIs. And frankly it doesn't sound like you should be replacing anything.

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WealthyMarmot t1_j6p9b1z wrote

Yes and no. That might be true for some aspects of the structure, but modern HVAC, electrical and plumbing have improved dramatically from just a few decades ago. Especially with the last two, the "barest minimum of code" is a trillion times safer and more reliable than code and materials from 50-100 years ago.

All comes down to upkeep, renovations, and just luck of the draw.

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WealthyMarmot t1_j5ss0as wrote

> North Korean, Vietnam

Without making any comment on the morality of the prosecution of the wars after they'd begun, both North Korea and North Vietnam were the aggressors against US allies, not the other way around.

> invaded Iraq

The first time was a international UN-sanctioned operation, the second was less defensible but let's not make false equivalencies between Iraq and Ukraine, given that Iraq was led by probably the single worst mass-murderer on the planet.

> is funding Israel even though they are committing similar crimes in Palestina as Russia is doing in Ukraine

There we go with the false equivalencies again. When has anything like Bucha ever happened in Palestine? And that happened in the first month of the war.

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WealthyMarmot t1_iugyosd wrote

I'm confused at how this story set you off on the US? Branson's not American, Shanmugam's not American, Singapore isn't America, nor are America's capital punishment rates in the same league as those of the other countries you mentioned (or those of China or a couple dozen other countries).

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