cyberentomology
cyberentomology OP t1_isyqzks wrote
Reply to comment by Chickensandcoke in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go? Delta Airlines 22Q3 Financials by cyberentomology
Not entirely sure - there may be state and local taxes involved, or they have significant operations somewhere that has a higher tax rate.
cyberentomology OP t1_isyf58g wrote
Reply to comment by mmmmm_pi in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go? United Airlines 22Q3 Financials by cyberentomology
American actually does a pretty nice summary sheet: https://imgur.com/a/lXdWfMu
cyberentomology OP t1_isyerkj wrote
Reply to comment by mmmmm_pi in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go? United Airlines 22Q3 Financials by cyberentomology
The quarterly report didn’t really get into it much, but Other (income) is usually where things like loyalty programs, credit cards, commissions, etc come in (at least the parts that aren’t specifically related to travel redemptions). Delta gets into much more detail, perhaps United will do so in their annual report.
Other (expenses) is stuff like crew hotels and ground transportation, aircraft catering, etc.
Sankey diagrams are kind of low-effort, but they’re very well suited to things that flow, like rivers, and money.
cyberentomology OP t1_isycb5d wrote
Reply to comment by wheslley_eurich in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go... American Airlines 22Q2 Financials by cyberentomology
It’s not only utterly brutal on cash flow, it’s also extremely capital intensive. Which is why a few people with access to large amounts of capital (like Udvar-Hazy, and GE) made themselves incredibly wealthy by allowing airlines to convert those massive capex into much more manageable opex.
There is a saying is that “if it flies, floats, or f🤬ks, it’s a lot cheaper to rent it”. This applies to the airline industry in a big way.
cyberentomology OP t1_isy9t3q wrote
Reply to comment by HobbitFoot in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go? United Airlines 22Q3 Financials by cyberentomology
Right?
The highest state jet fuel excise tax in the nation is Kansas at 26 cents (followed by DC at 23.5, Arkansas at 22.8, and Indiana at 21). Although Atlanta also levies an 8.4% sales tax on it (half local and half state), which at current prices tacks on about 30-35 cents a gallon.
cyberentomology OP t1_isy97sn wrote
Reply to comment by HobbitFoot in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go? United Airlines 22Q3 Financials by cyberentomology
They don’t get into the specifics in their financials. delta does. Loyalty program revenue is usually buried in the “Other”.
cyberentomology OP t1_isy91le wrote
Reply to comment by ihavethebestmarriage in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go? United Airlines 22Q3 Financials by cyberentomology
United doesn’t break it out in their reports (but Delta does, I just posted that one). Would definitely be interesting to see how that breaks down between airlines.
Delta’s passenger revenue is about 50% main cabin, 40% premium, and the rest is award travel and travel-related services.
cyberentomology OP t1_isy8ovh wrote
Reply to comment by FormerKarmaKing in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go? United Airlines 22Q3 Financials by cyberentomology
Middle East, India, Africa - that’s how United breaks it out.
cyberentomology OP t1_isy8jlh wrote
Reply to comment by CoachKoranGodwin in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go... American Airlines 22Q2 Financials by cyberentomology
Worth checking out the post I just put up for Delta. They're able to get their fuel for $3.53/gallon, as they actually own a refinery. They also have payroll and employee profit sharing that is 60% higher than AA.
cyberentomology OP t1_isy7km2 wrote
Reply to [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go... American Airlines 22Q2 Financials by cyberentomology
AA releases their Q3 results tomorrow (October 20), will have an update.
cyberentomology OP t1_isy6zot wrote
Reply to [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go? Delta Airlines 22Q3 Financials by cyberentomology
Southwest is posting their Q3 results next week... Will be interesting to see what theirs looks like as their business model is very different.
cyberentomology OP t1_isy6m33 wrote
Reply to [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go? Delta Airlines 22Q3 Financials by cyberentomology
Data Source: DAL 22Q3 Financial Results (October 13, 2022)
Tool: SankeyMatic
Some Interesting Observations:
- They're getting jet fuel for only $3.53 a gallon... Best price of all of the big US airlines. I
- Delta shows nearly $1.2B in refinery operations. In 2012, Delta acquired the recently closed Trainer Refinery in Pennsylvania from ConocoPhillips, as a way of insulating itself from volatility in refining margins. It can refine about 3 billion gallons of jet fuel a year. The refinery operation itself is breaking even, but shows on the bottom line in Delta having the lowest fuel cost of all three major US airlines.
- Fleet-wide, they're averaging about 60 passenger miles per gallon.
- Average annual (loaded) payroll per FTE is about $152K, significantly better than either AA or UA, and that's not counting another $12,000 per employee of profit sharing... Delta pays well!
- Total Revenue is about 25 cents per passenger-mile. They keep 1.2 cents of that.
- Taxes! The government is making about more money on the airline than the airline is making on the airline.
- $267M in federal income tax (unusually high)
- $198M in federal payroll tax
- $226M in federal excise tax on jet fuel (24.4 cents/gallon) -- this is largely what funds the FAA.
- State Taxes on jet fuel are unknown but state jet fuel tax per gallon in their US hubs - Delta seems to have hubs in high tax states:
- Georgia (ATL) 7.5 cents plus local sales tax of 8.9% (31 cents)
- Michigan (DTW): 3 cents
- Utah (SLC): 2.5 cents
- California (LAX): 2 cents
- New York (LGA/JFK): 6.5 cents
- Washington (SEA): 11 cents
- Minnesota (MSP) : 15 cents
cyberentomology OP t1_isxxmu6 wrote
Reply to [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go? United Airlines 22Q3 Financials by cyberentomology
Data Source: UAL 22Q3 Financial Results (October 18, 2022)
Tool: SankeyMatic
Some Interesting Observations:
- They're getting jet fuel for only $3.80 a gallon... Hell of a deal, even better than American (which I posted yesterday)
- Fleet-wide, they're averaging about 60 passenger miles per gallon. That's pretty damned efficient...
- Almost double the profit margin of American, for similar scale of operations and fleet - Most of the difference is in the amount they pay to lease aircraft - United owns most of its fleet out of capex, while AA rents theirs out of opex. Good reasons for either approach.
- Average annual (loaded) payroll per FTE is about $125K, significantly better than AA.
- Revenue is about 20 cents per passenger-mile. They keep 1.5 cents of that. They make an average of about 20 bucks per passenger on a flight.
- Taxes! The government is making about as much money on the airline as the airline is making on the airline.
- $211M in federal income tax
- $185M in federal payroll tax
- $241M in federal excise tax on jet fuel (24.4 cents/gallon) -- this is largely what funds the FAA.
- State Taxes on jet fuel are unknown but state jet fuel tax per gallon in their US hubs:
- Texas (IAH) 20 cents
- Illinois (ORD): 1.1 cents
- California (SFO): 2.0 cents
- Colorado (DEN): 4 cents
- New Jersey (EWR): 13.56 cents
cyberentomology OP t1_isxseyp wrote
Reply to comment by CoachKoranGodwin in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go... American Airlines 22Q2 Financials by cyberentomology
United just posted Q3, I’ll put that one up here in a bit.
cyberentomology OP t1_isve44m wrote
Reply to comment by tuctrohs in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go... American Airlines 22Q2 Financials by cyberentomology
No such thing as profit to the government. They don’t produce anything, they only consume. Rent seeking at its finest. At least the airline gets something in return for it.
cyberentomology OP t1_isve0fg wrote
Reply to comment by tuctrohs in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go... American Airlines 22Q2 Financials by cyberentomology
Yeah, a 5% efficiency gain from a new aircraft is huge and absolutely worth retiring old (and paid for) hardware.
cyberentomology OP t1_isuhc5b wrote
Reply to comment by wheslley_eurich in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go... American Airlines 22Q2 Financials by cyberentomology
“It’s OK if we’re losing money, we’ll just make it up on volume”
cyberentomology OP t1_isugz5b wrote
Reply to comment by wheslley_eurich in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go... American Airlines 22Q2 Financials by cyberentomology
It’s still more profitable than retail…
cyberentomology OP t1_isu2crk wrote
Reply to [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go... American Airlines 22Q2 Financials by cyberentomology
Data Source: AAL 22Q2 Financial Results (July 21, 2022)
Tool: SankeyMatic
Some Interesting Observations:
- They're getting jet fuel for only 4 bucks a gallon... Hell of a deal.
- Fleet-wide, they're averaging about 58 passenger miles per gallon. That's pretty damned efficient...
- Average annual (loaded) payroll per FTE is about $100K.
- Revenue is about 18 cents per passenger-mile. They keep less than 1 cent of that.
- No dividends, they've got a few billion in debt to pay down.
- Taxes! The government is making more money on the airline than the airline is making on the airline.
- $154M in federal income tax
- $210M in federal payroll tax
- $250M in federal excise tax on jet fuel (24.4 cents/gallon) -- this is largely what funds the FAA
- State Taxes on jet fuel are unknown but state jet fuel tax per gallon in their US hubs:
- Texas (DFW) 20 cents
- Illinois (ORD): 1.1 cents
- California (LAX): 2.0 cents
- North Carolina (CLT): none (tiny inspection fee only)
- Pennsylvania (PHL): 1.2 cents
- DC (DCA): 23.5 cents
- New York (LGA): 6.5 cents
Q3 results are due out any day now.
cyberentomology OP t1_isyr8tl wrote
Reply to comment by [deleted] in [OC] Where did it come from, where did it go? Delta Airlines 22Q3 Financials by cyberentomology
Not offhand, but I can throw one together pretty quick. They may account for things a bit differently, but I’ll check it out.