dominus_aranearum
dominus_aranearum t1_j4a5mkq wrote
Reply to comment by lesterd88 in Question on Mosaic Tile Backing by lesterd88
Just make sure that whatever you use for the tile you've selected is white, not grey.
dominus_aranearum t1_j0siidx wrote
Rent an actual rotohammer and use wedge anchors. If you still want to use a concrete screw, use Titen instead of Tapcons. Make sure you clean out the hole after drilling via compressed air. If you choose to use an epoxy option as one person suggested, use both compressed air and a wire pipe (tube) cleaner to clean the holes.
dominus_aranearum t1_j0sht7w wrote
Reply to comment by ntyperteasy in Railing install into concrete - help needed by LegalPangolin
Titen is a better product for screws into concrete if you don't want to use wedge anchors.
dominus_aranearum t1_j0n6dxf wrote
Reply to comment by imanze in Bathroom lights flicker when turning off the fan by vertox13
>OUTLETS is the key word you changed.
Good lord. I didn't change anything. YOU are misunderstanding what the definition of 'outlet' is in the NEC.
NEC Article 100 defines an “Outlet” as a point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment. The term “outlet” is often misused to refer to receptacles. Receptacle outlets are only one type of outlet. Other types of outlets include lighting outlets, appliance outlets, smoke alarm outlets, equipment outlets and so on.
A lighting outlet is an outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder, a luminaire or a pendant cord terminating in a lampholder. Luminaires can be ceiling-, wall- or even floor-mounted (See Figure 2). While the wiring for lighting outlets can terminate in outlet boxes and in other boxes under certain conditions, it can also terminate in junction boxes of luminaires.
So, in short, just because you don't understand what 'outlet' means in the context of the NEC, doesn't make what I wrote wrong. If you're still adamant, go ask someone in /r/electricians. I've been through hundreds of inspections, have you?
dominus_aranearum t1_j0khrrt wrote
Reply to comment by imanze in Bathroom lights flicker when turning off the fan by vertox13
>This is definitely false for new code, sorry.
I'm not reading your link at 1am. Tell me what I wrote that's wrong. I'm aware that old installs are grandfathered in, I stated that much. Updating your out of date electrical isn't required when doing fixture replacement. I won't argue that it shouldn't be brought up to code, because it should be, but nothing I stated is wrong.
I say a waste of a circuit because a bathroom fan might use 60 watts. Why on earth would you use an entire circuit for the same current draw as an incandescent light bulb? The only time you'd want to run a new circuit here is if the entire bathroom is on a single circuit so the fan and countertop outlets are sharing the same circuit. But there is ZERO reason to separate a fan from your lighting. Either update your LEDs or fan.
Additionally, lots of houses have smaller panels, especially older houses where the same circuit powers the bathroom and additional areas. Newer houses still run out of space on a 200A 30 space panel.
Edit: Figuring maybe you're talking about lighting and outlets being required to be on separate circuits in new code.
210.11(C)(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, one or more 120-volt, 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom(s) receptacle outlet(s) required by 210.52(D) and any countertop and similar work surface receptacle outlets. Such circuits shall have no other outlets.
Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2).
dominus_aranearum t1_j0kbi59 wrote
Reply to comment by imanze in Bathroom lights flicker when turning off the fan by vertox13
> I would then add another 15 amp circuit for the general lights and keep the existing circuit for just the fan.
This is a serious waste of a circuit. Fans pull little current. Get better LEDs.
Lights/fans and countertop outlets in a bathroom can be on the same GFCI protected circuit if that circuit feeds only that bathroom. If countertop outlets from multiple bathrooms are on the same circuit, then all other power in the bathrooms need to be on a different circuit(s). Of course, this is current code. Wiring that existed prior to this code adoption may certainly be different. In my 1959 house, the dishwasher was the load on the bathroom countertop GFCI. That was fun to figure out.
dominus_aranearum t1_iybvpf1 wrote
Reply to comment by StoneTemplePilates in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
That's your dishwasher. Personally, I've never seen one that size, but it obviously exists.
What's really a shame is that you told me I was making shit up, basically calling me a liar. When I'm wrong, I admit it. Already did with the neutral at the switch. I own up to my mistakes because I learn from them. Rather than admit you made a mistake when I point out the NEC code for j-box fill requirements that you asked for, you instead go through the trouble of opening up yours to prove what? That yours is big enough. In the dozens I've installed/removed over my remodel career, I've never seen one that big. The code requirement is still there and is something to pay attention to.
dominus_aranearum t1_iybp9fc wrote
Reply to comment by StoneTemplePilates in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
314.16
dominus_aranearum t1_iybnqwq wrote
Reply to comment by StoneTemplePilates in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
Not code. New dishwasher necessitates it being brought up to code.
Additionally, it's unsafe and it can lead to heat issues, then fire.
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should, especially when it comes to safety with electrical. Most electrical code is written because of death, fire or other injury/damage.
dominus_aranearum t1_iy9yk7i wrote
Reply to comment by rivalarrival in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
I corrected this prior to your comment but thanks anyhow.
dominus_aranearum t1_iy9usi9 wrote
Reply to comment by StoneTemplePilates in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
>but it doesn't need rectifying.
It does. I don't recall ever hooking up a dishwasher that had a j-box with enough volume for the extra wires.
dominus_aranearum t1_iy9r0gb wrote
Reply to comment by who-really-cares in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
I'm wrong. Not a lighting load anyhow.
404.2(C)(7)
dominus_aranearum t1_iy9qwpx wrote
Reply to comment by rivalarrival in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
You are correct. I was overly broad.
dominus_aranearum t1_iy9kldp wrote
Reply to comment by mr78rpm in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
You say that all the parts here should be rated for 15A, but then go on to say the drawing intends to show outlets with 20A sockets. First, not my drawings. Second, why? 15A receptacles are rated for a 20A pass through and OP's drawing doesn't even have a pass through to another potential 20A outlet. By limiting the sockets to 15A, no 20A appliance can be run through a 15A switch, which would be the only potential concern here.
Why do you feel that the wiring should be rated at 15A vs. 20A? There's nothing wrong with wiring using 12 gauge for a 15A or 20A circuit. OP has a 20A circuit, which is wise when both a dishwasher and disposer share a circuit.
Anyone who wants to be confused by (if less than 14 gauge) shouldn't be doing their own wiring. Why would I list the volume requirements for 12 gauge, then go on to say less than 14 gauge isn't counted? People were confused by 1/4lb burgers vs. 1/3lb burgers as well, thinking that 1/4lb was bigger. These aren't the people who should be doing electrical work or ordering my food, even as a DIY.
dominus_aranearum t1_iy9hlb8 wrote
Reply to comment by Fuzzy_Chom in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
>NEC actually allows disposals to not be on a GFCI, due to false trips
You raise a good point and are technically correct. Still a good idea anyhow.
While I wouldn't personally put both a dishwasher and disposal on the same circuit, as long as the draw from both don't add up to more than 80% of the rating of the circuit, they can be combined.
dominus_aranearum t1_iy9eq6e wrote
Reply to comment by TonyFugginMontana in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
Going the breaker route probably won't be cheaper. Depends upon your electrical panel. GFCI/AFCI breakers can easily be $70.
If I were you, I'd just get the GFCI breaker and not worry about the AFCI. There's some debate as to whether they should be used or not.
dominus_aranearum t1_iy9duvy wrote
Reply to comment by TonyFugginMontana in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
That would be my guess as well. I probably wouldn't mess with it if it's working, just know that if there's a block, that's a good place to look.
dominus_aranearum t1_iy9dcfz wrote
Reply to comment by RedFiveIron in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
No. Current code as of NEC 2017 requires that all j-boxes with a device have a neutral wire. This includes switches. The neutral wire gets capped off when not used by the switch.
It's to allow for potential future devices like smart switches.
dominus_aranearum t1_iy9c5g3 wrote
Reply to comment by TonyFugginMontana in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
Brain fart. GFCI outlets don't have a bridge to break off so personally, I'd switch to a GFCI breaker and use a single outlet that has the bridge.
Technically, code requires them to be AFCI as well now, so I'd get a GFCI/AFCI combination breaker.
dominus_aranearum t1_iy9bgzn wrote
Reply to comment by StoneTemplePilates in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
Somewhat irrelevant as the j-box for the dishwasher isn't going to be large enough for all the wires anyhow.
Technically, if only the dishwasher changed, then no, you wouldn't have to update the switch leg wire for the disposal, but if you're adding an outlet and GFCI, it should be brought up to code.
dominus_aranearum t1_iy96um2 wrote
Reply to comment by RedFiveIron in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
All switches require a neutral in current code.
Switch boxes with light loads now require a neutral (grounded conductor). A disposal isn't a light load and is considered an exception.
404.2(C)(7)
dominus_aranearum t1_iy96omv wrote
Reply to comment by TonyFugginMontana in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
It's definitely an odd setup but functional. Normally the dishwasher would drain into the disposal after the airgap.
My only concern would be where the dishwasher drain ties into the main line, the connection needs to be a long tee wye (because it's horizontal) and while difficult to tell from the picture, doesn't appear to be anything more than a sanitary tee.
dominus_aranearum t1_iy95r99 wrote
Reply to comment by TonyFugginMontana in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
Current code does require a neutral at all switches.
Nothing wrong with using the j-box at the dishwasher as long as it has enough volume for all of the connectors. Each 12 gauge wire counts as 2.25 in^(3), all grounds count together as the largest, so another 2.25 in^(3) plus whatever gauge the dishwasher wires are (if less than 14 gauge, the conductors aren't counted), plus the cable clamp @ 2.25 in^(3).
12 gauge - 4 * 2.25Ground - 1 * 2.25Clamp - 1 * 2.25 (assuming both 12/2 in one clamp)
Total = 6 * 2.25 = 13.5 in^(3) volume required for the j-box.
I sincerely doubt the j-box on the dishwasher is that large. Changing to 12/3 for the switch would add an additional 2.25 in^(3).
Technically, both dishwasher and the disposer are now required to be GFCI. All outlets/hardwire within 6' of the edge of the sink. This even includes a range hood, fridge, range, etc.
There's no need for two separate outlets. There are two ways to do this. You can use a GFCI outlet or GFCI breaker.
You can use the two outlets you suggested, or use a GFCI/AFCI combination breaker and a single outlet.
First, break the brass bridge on the 'hot' side of the outlet only. Splice the 'hot' (black) and 'neutral' (white) prior to the outlet with one leg going to the top terminals, have the 12/3 head up to the switch. At the switch, cap the neutral, hook up the red to one side of the switch and the black to the other. Back down at the outlet, hook up your red wire to the 'hot' side of the bottom terminal. Double check that you've broken the brass bridge on the 'hot' side of the outlet.
Edit: Forgot that GFCIs don't have a bridge to break. Also, if updating to code, AFCI is required as well.
dominus_aranearum t1_iy90q3b wrote
Reply to comment by metarchaeon in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
>As to you wiring, you don't need to run the 12-3 wire to the switch, just wrap the ends of the white wire (that you have capped on both end) with black tape and use it.
No longer up to code. All switches must have a neutral.
While it will technically work, might as well wire it properly if it's being done at all.
Switches with lighting loads now require the neutral. Wouldn't apply in OP's case.
Edit: I was wrong. 404.2(C)(7)
dominus_aranearum t1_j539z2e wrote
Reply to comment by AStartIsBorn in Jury Awards Flo Rida $82 Million in Lawsuit Against Celsius by Clem_Doore
Couldn't be. Celsius is spelled correctly.